Statement from John Kerry on Howard Dean's Speech on Elderly Care

[Nicholas_J]

September 28, 2003



“Despite what Howard Dean would have you believe today, he undeniably supported cutting $270 billion from Medicare – a cut I vigorously fought and a cut that would have had millions of seniors in our country paying more out of their pocket for health care costs. It was a cut President Clinton said would destroy the Medicare program. Howard Dean should have known Newt Gingrich and the Republican Party’s Medicare cuts were wrong then and he should admit they’re wrong now.

“Howard Dean also did not hesitate to put on the chopping block benefits Vermont seniors depended on in when he was Governor. Just last year, Howard Dean sought to eliminate the help seniors get when they are struggling to pay the high cost of prescription drugs. As Governor, Dean cut Medicaid money from nursing homes in Vermont, making the state second-worst in reimbursement rates and left Vermont nursing homes short on critical staff for vulnerable seniors.

“Howard Dean has tried to reinvent his record on a lot of issues in this campaign because time after time, on issues such as Medicare and prescription drugs, he is on the wrong side of seniors and working families.”

http://www.johnkerry.com/news/releases/pr_2003_0928.html

First, Deans statements as candidates, NEXT his record as governor.

I've been saying that this is the tack that would be used by the other candidatges for months.


AS noted in another Post about DEANS home health care ideas, it was performend in order to make those cuts for nursing home reimbursement noted in this article.

[sandnsea]

1. Thanks Nicholas

I missed this somehow. I have no opinion on any of this because the particulars are vague. All I know is that if Howard Dean runs next year, all the Republicans have to do is put up an ad that says:

Vermont 2003 State of the Budget

"Without reform, the Health Access Trust Fund year-end balance for FY '04 will be just over $4 million. By the following year, the fund will run a deficit of $14.6 million; and left unresolved, this deficit will balloon to nearly $150 million by FY 2008."

No tax cuts and a health care plan with a deficit like this. Game over. George Bush wins EVERY state.

[tsipple]

2. Um, There's a GOP Governor in Vermont Now

Last I checked, Dean is not Vermont's governor in 2003 or 2004.

Don't think that's going anywhere. Even on FOX News.

And we're certainly eager to talk about Vermont's budget. About the only one in the country that was balanced and which had a sufficient "rainy day fund," built up by Dean and Vermont Democrats, to weather Bush Recession #2. Even with a Republican Governor in charge recently.

[sandnsea]

3. January 8 2003

That was the date Howard stepped down. This speech was given on January 23 2003. That means it's Howard's program that is in a mess and there's no more rainy day funds to bail it out. Besides, a program is either adequately funded to work, or its not. If people think he can run on no tax cuts and this health care plan, they're sorely mistaken.

[tsipple]

4. Speech Given By?

You're not going to get away with that, dude (or dudette). :-)

[sandnsea]

5. The Governor for chrissake

Who else is going to give the 'State of the Budget' speech?

http://www.stateline.org/story.do?storyId=284175

[tsipple]

7. That Would Be Which Governor?

Hmmmm? :-)

[Name removed]

10. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[sandnsea]

16. What was this about?

I asked somebody why they were asking such an intentionally obtuse question and I get my message deleted???? Wow. This is a new one.

[Nicholas_J]

41. Dean's budget was gven on January 28, 2002

n/t

[Nicholas_J]

40. Last Year Dean was governor

2002... this is 2003, that makes last year 2002...

the math goes like this

2003
- 1
------
= 2002

Dean's last budget started in January of 2002, and fought over for months recommedned the following:



Governor’s Budget Cuts Medicaid Programs

Governor Howard Dean, in his eleventh and last budget address, cut several Medicaid programs including prescription drugs, dental care and vision services. Dean told lawmakers times a tough and sacrifices had to be made.

The Dean budget for FY 2003 is $891 million in state spending, one percent more than the state expects to spend this fiscal year but nearly 3% less than the budget passed last year ($916 million). Revenues this year are expected to be $50 million below budget. Dean wants to use the "Rainy Day" fund to cover some of the $50 million shortfall but does not want to tap that fund for FY 2003. Next year’s budget is based on revenue estimates of $893 million.

If passed as presented, Dean’s budget would:

Eliminate the VScript Expanded Program.

Reduce the Vermont Health Access Plan pharmacy benefit.

Increase the co-pay up to $750/year for medicines under both the VScript and VHAP pharmacy programs. (Those eligible now pay only a few dollars for each filled prescription).

Eliminate the Medicaid dentures, chiropractic and podiatry programs.

Reduce the adult dental programs (cover pain and suffering only, not preventative care).

Add a 50% co-pay to adult vision programs.

Add a $250 co-pay per admission to VHAP inpatient hospital benefit.

Reduce the hospital outpatient payment by 10%.

Establish a hospital outpatient co-pay of $25.

These cuts would save about $27 million, $11 million in state money. Few advocates for the elderly are happy with the budget and have vowed to restore the money lost to these programs. A coalition of over a dozen advocacy groups held a rally and press conference at the Capitol building to denounce the budget cuts.

http://vnavt.com/vahhavoicewinter2002.htm

Dean was offered an alternative plan to these cuts, which required RETORING the progressive income tax system created by Deans predecessor, Richard Snelling, but Dean rejected increasing the taxes on the wealthiest Vermontrers stating that the highest tax bracket was already TOO high( translation" THE RICH ARE ALREADY TAXES TOO MUCH)

Progressives call for higher taxes for rich
January 25, 2002

By JACK HOFFMAN

Vermont Press Bureau

MONTPELIER — Vermont Progressives renewed their call Thursday for higher taxes on the wealthy in order to avoid some of the budget cuts that Gov. Howard Dean outlined earlier this week.

The Progressives, with support of a couple dozen Democrats and one Republican, proposed two new income tax surcharges. Taxes would go up 12.5 percent on taxable income between $43,000 and $158,000. On taxable income above $158,000, taxes would be increased 25 percent...


In 1991, then-Gov. Richard Snelling, a Republican, and the Democratic Legislature imposed surcharges on upper-income Vermonters to dig the state out of a huge budget deficit. Those surcharges were temporary, and they were lifted after the shortfall was repaid.

The Progressives said their proposal was designed to mirror the surcharges adopted during that last budget crisis, but they have not proposed an expiration date for the new surcharges.

Dean reiterated his opposition to raising the income tax shortly after the Progressives unveiled their tax plan. Dean contends Vermont’s marginal income tax rate — that is, the top rate paid by those in the highest income brackets — already is too high.

http://timesargus.nybor.com/Legislature/Story/41293.html




But even beyond TAXING THE RICH...

WHen the senate decided to ignore Dean and restore the programs Dean threatened to VETO the retored programs:


Senate adds money to budget, angers Dean
May 9, 2002

By ROSS SNEYD The Associated Press

MONTPELIER — Senators passed a 2003 state budget Wednesday that the governor made clear he would veto if it ever reached his desk.

Just hours after an angry Gov. Howard Dean leveled a series of charges about how irresponsible he believed the Senate, controlled by his fellow Democrats, was being, senators did precisely what he warned them not to do.

They restored money to a pharmaceutical assistance program that he had slated for elimination, redirected some money to cities and towns to help pay for education, and passed the budget by a 21-8 roll-call vote.

Even the governor’s closest allies in the Senate ignored him. Sen. Nancy Chard, D-Windham, recommended restoring $440,000 to one of the pharmaceutical assistance programs and the Senate voted 22-7 to go along with her.

“I’ve become convinced that we have a philosophical difference between the governor, the Republican House and this Senate,” said Senate President Pro Tempore Peter Shumlin, D-Windham.

“The governor and the Republican House want to balance this budget on the backs of our most vulnerable Vermonters. The Senate wants to balance this budget on the backs of the pharmaceutical companies who are charging too much for drugs.”

http://timesargus.com/Legislature/Story/46513.html

This is NOT ANCIENT HISTORY, but little more than a year ago, when Dean was cutting much needed programs in order to balqance the busget. At the same time however, Dean was ordering millions to be spent on projects that paid for roads and bridges to cut the transopration costs of several private businesses..

Dean is all talk, his actions have spoken louder.

[KaraokeKarlton]

6. Interesting that you left out WHY Dean said there would have to be cuts

He warned the legislature that if they didn't pass the cigarette tax he asked for that cuts would have to be made to balance the budget. He showed them in that speech exactly what would happen if they didn't do as he advised them to. The cuts never went into effect because the legislature went back and passed the cigarette tax to avoid it...just like Dean had told them they would need to do. Why am I not surprised Kerry left this important fact out? Time to make another contribution to Dean.

[Rose Siding]

8. This is so pathetic!

Dean spent the weekend releasing statements that go after the WH for burning undercover agents and threatening natl security.

I'm so sad for Kerry!

[DrFunkenstein]

14. Was That Before Or After Following Kerry

Calling for Rumsfeld's resignation? You see, some people can actually walk AND chew bubblegum at the same time.

[tsipple]

17. "If a Tree Falls in the Woods, And No One Is Around..."

You know how that one goes. And it's a fair point, DrFunkenstein.

I haven't run the research on whether Dean or Kerry called for Rumsfeld's resignation first. But I do know Dean got the message out into the press and Kerry didn't. Part of being a winning candidate is your ability to get your message out, and Dean is winning that race right now.

Please note that I do not blame Kerry. Kerry is f***ing brilliant. I blame his communications team. They're too often being really stupid. I also do not minimize how difficult it is to get your message out. With the Clark noise, the normal dull roar of regular (and irregular) news stories, and nine other candidates, it's damn hard to be the Kerry communications team these days.

[sandnsea]

19. It made the press

You just don't listen to anything unless it says DEAN!!!!

[tsipple]

22. Linky?

Honestly looking forward to reading more.

[sandnsea]

24. You read?

If you are really looking foward to reading it, you'd google it yourself. You're not, why pretend.

[tsipple]

27. OK, Just Googled...

Imprecise measure to be sure, but "Rumsfeld Kerry" yielded 239 hits, and "Rumsfeld Dean" yielded 315 at news.google.com.

For example, Tony Snow on FOX News Sunday had this question (to John Edwards, no less):

Howard Dean has suggested that Donald Rumsfeld and Paul Wolfowitz step down. Do you agree?

No mention of John Kerry on that national broadcast.

I'm finding other broadcast outlets with the same result, including WICZ and WOKR. Dean mentioned. Kerry not mentioned.

"Rumsfeld Kerry -Dean" yields 140 hits. "Rumsfeld Dean -Kerry" yields 216. Percentage-wise, Kerry takes the bigger hit there. (There's a greater tendency for Dean to be mentioned alone with Rumsfeld's name than for Kerry.)

Some more search hit counts:

Wolfowitz Kerry: 80
Wolfowitz Dean: 128
Wolfowitz Kerry -Dean: 55
Wolfowitz Dean -Kerry: 95

Kerry evidently didn't call for Paul Wolfowitz's resignation, but he has criticized Wolfowitz in the past. Trend still holds, though. Dean gets mentioned more often than Kerry -- and more often alone than Kerry alone. Dean is doing a better job getting his message out.

Google is pretty cool. Thanks.

[sandnsea]

29. you've got to be kidding

You have waaaay too much time on your hands.

[Nicholas_J]

43. NOT only that

such an attempt to google and look for names alone in an article has absolutely NO bearing on the contens of the article. WHat a foolish statement.

[ModerateMiddle]

35. there's probably a link

if I wanted to go search, but it's morning and I don't want to :D

He said it on Paula Zahn's NOW program that immediately followed the debate on Thursday.

[Larkspur]

32. Dean has been pressuring the White House on this issue for some time now

Remember his 16 questions http://www.deanforamerica.com/site/News2?page=NewsArticle&id=6998&news_iv_ctrl=1301 that coincide with the 16 words from the SOTU speech? Dean mentioned Rumsfeld specifically 3 times in that statement and while he didn't call for Rumsfeld's resignation specifically then, he alluded to it in that statement and in one made 2 days before the 16 Questions statement on July 23, 2003 -- GOVERNOR DEAN CALLS FOR RESIGNATIONS OF ADMINISTRATION OFFICIALS WHO MISLED NATION http://www.deanforamerica.com/site/News2?page=NewsArticle&id=7081&security=1&news_iv_ctrl=1301 .

[sandnsea]

9. He cut nursing home coverage

http://www.abc22.com/news/archive.php?story=1994

He took money from nursing homes and put it into home health care (with good intentions) knowing that there would be fewer nursing homes, thinking that would drive the nursing home budget down. Now Vermont, like the rest of the country, has an aging population and not enough nursing homes.

"I'm very sure that we are going to see more nursing homes closing not only because of the lower Medicaid reimbursement but because of losing the federal Medicare money," says Shriver. She says state under funding of Medicaid, which pays for 70 percent of Vermont's nursing home residents, is a big problem."

[KaraokeKarlton]

11. Vermont has plenty of nursing homes

And most of them have plenty of empty beds. If you compare the population of Vermont with the number of nursing homes you'll see that Vermont is not hurting for nursing home beds. And the homes charge about 5 or 6 times what it actually costs to take care of people at least. I constantly hear people complaining about the rising cost of care and the greed of the health care industry. Dean does something to deal with it and he gets criticized? That doesn't seem very reasonable.

[sandnsea]

13. Mary Shriver is a liar

Okay, sure.

If you'd read the article you'd understand why nursing costs are so high. They have to raise the rates because Medicaid isn't reimbursing at the rate they used to or at the rate nursing homes need. 70% of the cost of funding nursing homes is Medicaid.

That's another one of those little known pieces of information that would turn medical care on its head. The vast majority of the cost of Medicaid is uninsured senior citizens. So not only are we paying out of our paychecks for Medicare, we're paying again in State and Federal taxes for Medicaid to cover what Medicare doesn't cover. And people are led to believe Medicaid is just for people too lazy to work.

[dsc]

56. States don't set reimbursment rates

for nursing homes the feds do. If the rates are too low it is more likely to be Kerry's fault than it is to be Dean's.

[Nicholas_J]

44. Dean simply shifted the money

From Nursing Homes to Home Health care and even that was just parallel harmonizing legislation to reflect increases allowed under medicare and medicaid for home heal caqre services and NOT program changes inistiated by Dean. Dean made massive cuts to state funded agencies and started relying TOTALLY on federal programs and what they offered. He did nothing new, nothing inovative nothing that was NOT MANDATED by changes to federal program law.

Dean is trying to take credit for Washingtonts programs, whole at the same time being responsible for cutting services, and hopin no one would notice.


Dean takes the REPUBLICAN LINE AT ALL TURNS.

That is, cut social programs,and do not raise taxes on the rich.

That is Howard Deans legacy, and what he is offering as president.

[tsipple]

12. Only Fair You Give All the Relevant Quotes...

And thank you for providing the link. Here are the quotes I had in mind:

Mary Shriver is the executive director of the Vermont Health Care Association.

That would be the nursing home association. The one that would prefer not to have the elderly choosing home care, one would think.

Vermont ranks number one in a recent study for the quality of care in its nursing homes, but the American Health Care Association says the gap between the cost of that care and the state's reimbursement for Medicaid patients is one of the worst in the nation. "I'm very sure that we are going to see more nursing homes closing not only because of the lower Medicaid reimbursement but because of losing the federal Medicare money," says Shriver.

Wanted to put your edited quote in context for everybody. Please note the first sentence, and please also note that the national nursing home association is cited thereafter.

Patrick Flood, Commissioner of Aging and Disabilities, disagrees, "I actually believe that we have one of the better payment rates in the country, especially for a state our size." Flood says nursing homes have closed because of low occupancy levels, not state under funding.

We seem to have a disagreement here, obviously.

By the way, I've yet to find a nursing home association spokesman who says the nursing homes receive enough money, in any state. So you've kind of found the healthcare equivalent of the "Sun Rose Today from the East" news story. A nursing home association spokesperson who says, "We've got plenty of money, the state really ought to cut the nursing home budget"? Now THAT would be news!

Anything positive about Kerry you'd like to talk about, by the way? Just wondering.

[DrFunkenstein]

15. Look At The First Two Pages Of The Forum

And you'll see tons of positive Kerry threads. It's just that you only look at things that have the word "Dean" in them. Nice spin, though.

[tsipple]

20. Yeah, But Where's the Kerry Praise *In* the Dean Threads?

That's what I'm wondering.

I don't go trolling around trying to disrupt Kerry praise, and I certainly don't do it with irrefutable Kerry success stories, like his masterful investigation into Vietnam POW-MIAs, which was totally professional, fair, and balanced. Kerry's a damn fine candidate.

Look at the thread "Another Major Kerry Endorsement to be announced this Tuesday." EVERYTHING there is positive, including a few posts by a Kucinich supporter. There's not even a fake Dean "supporter" trolling. (And let me join in the praise by saying, "Good show for getting an endorsement. I'm looking forward to hearing more Tuesday.")

:wtf:

[sandnsea]

18. Fundamental Disagreement

This is a social service gutting program. So obvious. Cut the funding to nursing homes so they shut down, force people to stay in their homes to be close to their families (whether they really want to or not), then call it a victory because more people are staying in their homes! Oh man, a Republican couldn't have done it better!

I already posted something positive about Kerry, he co-sponsored the very SCHIP program that is giving Vermont and children across the nation health coverage.

[tsipple]

21. Yes, and I'm wondering what happened to Texas...

...And you didn't answer. Last I checked, Texas has SCHIP.

[sandnsea]

23. So what!

What does Texas have to do with different states implementing a federal program? What does Texas have to do with Vermont's program having major deficit problems? Nothing. George Bush did a shitty job. A whole bunch of governors did a better job. Howard Dean actually did a shitty job because he's got a program that Vermont isn't going to be able to fund. Before SCHIP, about the best coverage rate was 70%, Vermont included. SCHIP caused those additional kids to be covered, not Howard Dean.

And one more thing, different states implemented that program at different times. I think they had until 2000 or 2002 to submit final plans. Some states just took longer to do that because they're bigger.

[WhereIsMyFreedom]

25. I think the point is

that you appear to be claiming that Kerry (via SCHIP) and not Dean is responsible for any success in Vermont, while Bush and not Kerry is responsible for all failures in Texas. You are trying to have it both ways. I would say that Kerry did well with SCHIP and Dean did well with what SCHIP gave him to work with. It's a win for both.

[tsipple]

26. Well, I Was Willing to Give Kerry and Dean Kudos, BUT...

...No, sandnsea actually encouraged me to go look at the U.S. Census Data to see what the awesomely awesome Kerry has done for child healthcare and what that vicious evil man Dean has done to children in Vermont.

And you can see the figures here.

Quite simply, Vermont did well, and the United States didn't do as well. (According to the U.S. Census, Ronald Reagan actually did a pretty good job with child health insurance coverage.)

John Kerry is still awesome. Kerrybots are definitely not.

[sandnsea]

28. I think the point is

that different states implemented their programs at different times, for one thing. I think 18 states did as well as Dean. I think Dean's program is going to have a $150 million deficit in 5 years. I think Dean's program sucks. What exactly should I give Dean credit for?

The only reason any state has a program at all is because of those people in Washington D.C., the ones Dean calls insiders who can't get anything done.

[WhereIsMyFreedom]

37. Help me on the statistics please

I understand that the 18 states thing came from this report: http://www.census.gov/hhes/hlthins/liuc01.html . What I don't understand is where you came up with the 18 states statistically did as well as Vermont. At worst, if you increase Vermont's percentage by its error rate you get 2.9% of children at or below 200% poverty without health insurance. At best, if you decrease every other state by its standard error you get the following states with a lower percentage: Deleware, Iowa, Maine, Massachusetts, Minnesota, Missouri, New Hampshire, Rhode Island, Tennesee, and Wisconsin. That's only 10 states, not 18.

I'll have to do some research before I can address the $150 million deficit in 5 years point you keep bringing up. Is there some other reason that you think Dean's program sucks or is it just the money?

[tsipple]

38. Thanks For Doing That Math

I didn't have the time, but I was suspicious about the 18 number. Guess we can't trust this particular Kerrybot to tell the truth. (Although interestingly I can trust Kerry himself to do so on basic facts. He's an honorable guy from what I know about him.)

[Nicholas_J]

49. Deans program ideas must be looked at in light

Of other things he was doing atr the same time.

WHile he was cutting ten million on health care, he was spending eight million alone to build a bridge over Arrowhead lake which was only built in order to lower the transportation costs of a Canadian plastic bottle factory called Husky Injection and was of little service to anyone but this company.

Taking individual programs without looking at other fiscal practices creates a false image of Dean. He favored big business and actively and repeatedly tried to cut programs to the elderly, the blind ,the disabled, and was fought by Vermont Progressives and Liberal Democrats to prevent these cuts. These are the behaviors that Dean supporters refer to as extreme left wing policies that Deans opponents were fought him on. Deans wanted to cut post of living increases to programs supporting the blind, elderly andthe handicapped as well.

Dean is simply a big business bought bastard who is very clever at convincing people that his programs to screw them are the right thindg to do.

[dsc]

57. That is a flat out lie

That program exists in every single god damned state in this union. And every single god damened state in this union has fewer kids covered.

[Nicholas_J]

59. Because

Dean started out with one of the HIGHEST rates of coverage for both adults AND children in the nation.
Not only that, while Dean was governor, the percentage of the population that did not have insurance to as much as 45 percent fewer people covered. In only ONE of his eleven years as governor, did the rate of people without health care become lower than the four years prior to his coming to office. In one other it was equal to the best in the four previous years. five of his eleven years itr was significantly WORSE.


Table 2 – Estimates of the Percent Uninsured in Vermont, 1987-2001
CPS

Year VT /
State
1987 9.8%
1988 10. 97%
1989 8.8%
1990 9.5%
1991 12.7%


1992 9.5%
1993 11.9%
1994 8.6%
1995 13.0%
1996 11.0%
1997 9.5%
1998 9.9%
1999 11.1%
2000 8.6%
2001 9.6%


From: The Uninsured in Vermont

http://216.239.41.104/search?q=cache:FzuHwx-xM74J:www.leg.state.vt.us/jfo/Vermont%2520Uninsured.pdf+%22The+Uninsured+in+Vermont%22&hl=en&ie=UTF-8

Now lets average the Pre Dean Years 1987-1991

1987 9.8%
1988 10. 97%
1989 8.8%
1990 9.5%
1991 12.7%

Average of 10.35 percent:

Now the Dean Years:

1992 9.5%
1993 11.9%
1994 8.6%
1995 13.0%
1996 11.0%
1997 9.5%
1998 9.9%
1999 11.1%
2000 8.6%
2001 9.6%


10.27 percent.

Big increase in the percentage of the uninsured in Vermont as a result of Dean’s health care initiatives. Less than one percent.

Dean managed to increase the health care budget to monumental proportions, to nearly 2 billion dollars out of a 3.5 billion dollar budget, yet had only reduced the percentage of people without coverage by eight tenths of one percent. About 4800 more people covered. Most of this by shifting coverage to children, and not by increasing overall coverage. Because it is cheaper to cover children.

The record is clear. Health coverage was mane WORSE in Vermont under Howard Deans leadership.

[dsc]

60. Your commentary and your numbers are in direct opposition

By my eye it seems half of his years (5 out of 10) were better than the median of the five years you supplied. Dean's median would be 9.75% which is also better. You claim that uninsured increased in your commentary when they actually decreased. And the average figure you used is bogus. Comparing 10 years to five years renders it worthless. Any decent math student would know that

Finally I think the figure for 1999 is wrong for two reasons. One there is no discernable reason for that spike and then a fall in the rate of uninsured. Second it doesn't agree with the rest of the data provided on the same site. The average from 1999 to 2001 is supposedly 9.7% yet if you average the years 1999 to 2001 you get more like 9.8%. That leads me to conclude the 99 figure is likely to be wrong. If you have some rational case for the other figure being wrong I will gladly read it.

[Nicholas_J]

61. Nope

only two of the Dean years equaled or exceeded the four years PRIOR to his becoming governor.

From 1987 to 2000,almost all of the Dean years as governor were WORSE than prior to his becoming governor:

The very worse year before Dean was 1988 at 10.97 percent... THe best before Dean, 1989 at 8.8 percent. Now lets look at the Dean years again:

1992 9.5%
1993 11.9%
1994 8.6%
1995 13.0%
1996 11.0%
1997 9.5%
1998 9.9%
1999 11.1%
2000 8.6%
2001 9.6%

1991, Deans first year 12.7 percent, 1993, 1995, 1996, 1999, all worse than the 1987-1990 figures.

Even 1992, 1997, 1998, 2001, were virtually the same as average years PRIOR to Deans taking office. Only in one years did Dean do as well as the best years PRIOR to his coming to office, and only in one did he exceed that year.

This is the record of the man who claims he did something exceptional about the rate of the unisured in a TINY state like Vermont.

The record stands, Dean did nothing at all to improve the rate of the unisured in Vermont. WITH A POLICY TO DO SO.

The years prior to Deans tenure were as good or better thatn they were after the man with the plan came along...

Say little for his ability. Or actually says a great deal about his INABILITY.

[Nicholas_J]

47. Howa About the complete Dean on Social Security

Dean said we need to cut Social Security to balance the budget.

"The Governor complains...that while federal spending restraint is clearly needed, it is unfair to place Social Security, Medicare, and defense spending off the table when it comes time for budget cuts."

"I also think that we ought to put Social Security back on the table and defense. If you take defense and Social Security off the table, what you've essentially said, 'We're not going to cut any of the controversial things at the federal level, despite our rhetoric about being courageous in a new day in the American Congress, we're just going to let the governors do all the cutting.' We'll do the cutting, but they got to do some cutting here, too."

"My problem is this. There have been a lot of statements up on Capitol Hill that say 'We're not going to touch Social Security.' 'We're going not to touch Medicare,' one statement was. 'We're not going to touch veterans' benefits.' 'We're not going to touch defense. We may add to defense.' Well, then you're going to stick all the cuts on the programs, as you well know, that go to the states..."

"We know what's going to happen and we're willing to live with that,' Dean said, referring to lower welfare funding. 'We just would like to see some similar kind of backbone by the new leadership in Congress when it comes to Medicare, when it comes to Social Security and when it comes to defense.' Without Social Security and defense on the table, Dean says, cuts in what's left of the budget would harm states..."

"Dean himself has been hawkish on the federal deficit, but his budget balancing suggestions include two programs virtually off limits for Republicans: defense spending and Social Security."

[Nicholas_J]

54. The good thing is

That all of those MANY,MANY elderly voters, and those about to retiree's are going to see what Dean HAS ACTUALLY DONE AND SAID, that has actually effected and cut benefits to them ot those like them, and they are simply going to STOP HEARING DEAN.

They are not going to log onto DU and look for the lame arrguments ofcv Dena supporters to try to put spin on his choices. Dean had many alternate routed he could have taken, anyone who has voted for uears know that. Dean made choices to harm a lot of people. HE could have made other choices, but he didnt. That is all that needs to be said because the sum of any supposed leader is the record of the CHOICES they make.

Dean has to justify those choices, regardless of the events that created the situation.


Dean lacks the ability to make the correct choice.

Instead of a brain or heart he has a cash register inside him.

This info from the Kerry campaign merely verifies that.

[Nicholas_J]

58. Lets look at what Dean actually did

ANd what The Vermont Assosication of HOME HEALTH Agencies said about it:

Governor’s Budget Cuts Medicaid Programs

Governor Howard Dean, in his eleventh and last budget address, cut several Medicaid programs including prescription drugs, dental care and vision services. Dean told lawmakers times a tough and sacrifices had to be made.

The Dean budget for FY 2003 is $891 million in state spending, one percent more than the state expects to spend this fiscal year but nearly 3% less than the budget passed last year ($916 million). Revenues this year are expected to be $50 million below budget. Dean wants to use the "Rainy Day" fund to cover some of the $50 million shortfall but does not want to tap that fund for FY 2003. Next year’s budget is based on revenue estimates of $893 million.

If passed as presented, Dean’s budget would:

Eliminate the VScript Expanded Program.

Reduce the Vermont Health Access Plan pharmacy benefit.

Increase the co-pay up to $750/year for medicines under both the VScript and VHAP pharmacy programs. (Those eligible now pay only a few dollars for each filled prescription).

Eliminate the Medicaid dentures, chiropractic and podiatry programs.

Reduce the adult dental programs (cover pain and suffering only, not preventative care).

Add a 50% co-pay to adult vision programs.

Add a $250 co-pay per admission to VHAP inpatient hospital benefit.

Reduce the hospital outpatient payment by 10%.

Establish a hospital outpatient co-pay of $25.

These cuts would save about $27 million, $11 million in state money. Few advocates for the elderly are happy with the budget and have vowed to restore the money lost to these programs. A coalition of over a dozen advocacy groups held a rally and press conference at the Capitol building to denounce the budget cuts.


This is not ancient, unevolved Howard Dean, but the spring of 2002.

Dean was offered alternatives to the cuts, threatened to veto the Senates restoration of some of the programs.

Dean chose the cuts, over raising taxes on the wealthiest people in Vermont.

And on top of that the cuts were not necessary at all, as the programs were restored and Vermont was still left with a ten million dollar SURPLUS.

What's Dean up to?


http://vnavt.com/vahhavoicewinter2002.htm

[Nicholas_J]

42. Dean rejected otther methods presented to him

By a majority of Vermont elected Democrats and Dean sided with HOUSE REPUBLICANS to make the cuts rather than re-instituting the progressive taxation that Dean rolled back 1n 1994. He had choices OTHER than an unreliable consumtion tax (it is well know in taxation circles that the higher the taxes on item like cigarettes and alcohol, the fewer people buy them and so taxes cannot be reliably anticipated to provide for ESSENTIAL services).

[Demobrat]

30. Poor Kerry. He's going to have to hire a fulltime staffer soon

just to respond to Dean, Dean, Dean, Dean, Dean.

[molly]

31. You guys need to face the facts - Dean is NOT presidential

material.

[Larkspur]

33. You need to face the fact that Kerry underestimated the anger of

rank-and-file Dems against Bush and the Dem Party Princes, like Kerry.

Dean broke Bill Clinton's single quarter fundraising record and Dean is not a sitting president. Dean also broke Clinton's record in the worse quarter for fundraising, the 3rd quarter. And Dean accomplished this feat not with lots of $2,000 donors, but with small time donations from thousands of us average citizens. Dean inspires, Kerry depresses.

This revolution will not be televised and it will consume Kerry and the other Establishment Dems.

It will be interesting to see the breakdown of donations between the Dem campaigns. We will see again that Dean is People-powered and the others are not.

[molly]

48. Dem Party Princes?

you need to take a look at Kerry's long record of public service and get off yer high horse with this fund raising bat crap!

"This revolution will not be televised and it will consume Kerry and the other Establishment Dems."

What are you trying to say here?

[Nicholas_J]

52. Real people are not Deanies

A lot of elderly, retired and about to retire people are REAL PEOPLE and with the latest polls showing Deans New Hampsire report slipping. we will just let them decide on whetther they want someone who has ALWAYS been willing to cut their benfits, as Dean has proven to be willing to do, or people like Kerry or Gephardt, who have always fought such cuts vociferouly, toohe and nail.

Dean who HAS cut medical programs to the elderly, and who has repeatedly supported cuts to Social Security and Medicare, OR Kerr and the other who have NEVER even suggested it.

Deans REAL record is only now coming into play. Leaders have to make choices. Dean always made choices that gove money to large corporations nad the wealthy, and that cut services to those less fortunate.

This is only the beginning of the revelations about Deans decision. They were not the ONLY THING HE COULD DO.

Dean rejected all alternatives that might burden the rich, or cut the profits of large corporation by a tiny bit, and selecetd instead to burden the poorest and the middle class.

IT is a question of choices that determine who a leader favors. Deans actions clearly show that he did not favor the average citizen.

[Duder]

34. A Dean supporter responds to Kerry:

"John Kerry Should Be Ashamed Of Himself"
http://home.att.net/~opus163/rebuttal1.html

[Rose Siding]

45. This is excellent.

Thanks

[stickdog]

36. Kerry Copying Dean "Immediate Response" Strategy

Only Dean uses it to bash everything Bush while Kerry bashes everything Dean.

[tsipple]

39. A.K.A. the Jan Brady Strategy?

I really want Kerry's campaign to do a better job. Honestly. Posting U.S. Census data that ranks Vermont #1 in childhood health insurance coverage ain't the brightest move they've made.

[molly]

51. What shining bright moves has your guy made lately?

[blm]

46. Dean started the bashing on Jan. 23, lest we forget.

The others tried to keep it clean for months before they retaliated.

[molly]

50. I certainly remember - I remember the day I took off my gloves!

[Nicholas_J]

53. ME TOO

Around that date I saw the many Deanies tearing into BLM and MOLLY adn it was on that5 date I decided that Dean could absolutely not be supported for predident if he attracted such abusive people to his campaign. The supporters reflect the nature of the candidate, and I decided that Dean must be a nasty rotten bastard if that was the kind of support he attracted.

[Rose Siding]

55. DITTO

:silly:

Isn't that sorta the same logic used in the decision to attack Iraq when Al Qaeda is the enemy?