Joe Klein Calls Kerry's Position "The Most Responsible"

[DrFunkenstein]

Wonder what (Michael) Moore thinks now, after Clark spent the first days of his campaign stepping all over his epaulets on the most basic question of the coming election: Was George W. Bush right or wrong to go to war in Iraq? Actually, I have a certain sympathy for Clark's stumbles.

This is a difficult question, and the general has learned that while truth-telling requires more than a yes or no answer, politics demands the exact opposite. The most responsible position, which John Kerry has been suffering with for a year now, is that it was wrong for Bush to go to war in such a rush and unilaterally—but that it was right for members of Congress to send a signal of deep concern about the situation in Iraq to the United Nations and Saddam Hussein. In a perfect world, that signal would have been a lot more nuanced than the blank check Congress gave the President to go to war. But politics is, as often as not, a choice between the awful and the dreadful.

http://www.time.com/time/election2004/article/0,18471,488781,00.html

Flame away Dean peoples, but this is almost exactly the position I have held for months now. Glad to see Time readers get a chance to see it.

Anyone read Klein's New Yorker profile of Kerry? I find it hard to believe that Klein doesn't think Kerry is the best candidate out there. As Kerry sharpens his message, I think alot of people will, too. Clark's entrance actually served to give Kerry momentum, and should Clark stumble even further than he has, Kerry will come out on top where he belongs.

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[tpub]

1. !!

Ohmygod! I love that picture! That's not real, is it?

You do have the best pics!!

[JohnKleeb]

2. Yeah your guy Kerry is a hockey player I assume hes your guy right

You have a quote in your sig so I assumed.

[tpub]

4. Yes, he's my guy

I've not been on DU lately. Honestly I found the whole Dean vs. Kerry thing verrrrry tiring, so I've been hanging out at the Kerrry blog instead. Plus I've been very active in my area (New Orleans) garnering support for Kerry. We've found a couple of students who interned for Kerry over the summer, so it's very exciting down here right now.

As a true antiwar liberal, I enjoy listening to Kucinich, and I know Kerry is your second choice. I hope when push comes to shove we can all come together behind one candidate.

[JohnKleeb]

5. yes Kerry is my second pick you got quite a memory there

You see, I regonize despite IWR Kerry is the more liberal and more anti war historically than Dean, thats one of my points its not that good actually its better than my next one lol, how could you not like a man on Nixon's enemies list. Its more ClarkVSDean now. Kerry is a good man, any friend of the Kennedy family is a friend of mine :). Reading also about Kerry has supported cutting from the DoD in the past is a plus too.

[tpub]

9. it's so nice to hear someone else

say that Kerry is the true liberal!!

I know the guy has wanted to be president since he was a kid, but I like ambition! Ambition can help you get somewhere!

And he clearly has the voting record, for 20 years or so, of a man who is truly concerned with equal rights, workers' rights, education, the environment, etc.

Alright, now, where's that CW chick? I'm just asking for it now, right?

[JohnKleeb]

11. I dunno

Of course hes a liberal.

[diplomats]

3. I was trying to figure that out, too

but I think Kerry does play hockey.

[JohnKleeb]

6. he does, I read a Denis Leary interview

and he said that he liked Kerry lol kinda in a way for it. Well plus Kerry is a fellow Massuchatian. It would have been neat to see Kerry talk about the bambino curse on that documentary.

[DrFunkenstein]

7. Kerry Has Played All His Life

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[madmax]

8. And he's a Windsurfer

A Windsurfer in the WHITE HOUSE?

"It's a tough job! Somebody has gotta do it." - John Chao, editor/publisher of American Windsurfer, kept up with Senator John Kerry for a full year to bring you this extraordinary portrait in words and photographs of a man, navigating through the forces of life.

http://www.americanwindsurfer.com/mag/back/issue5.5a.html

Dr. Funkenstein might want to post a great pic of Kerry windsurfing.

[sandnsea]

10. Cool pic, good article

"But politics is, as often as not, a choice between the awful and the dreadful." Exactly.

I really love that Kerry is such a vibrant person who is interested in everything. I wonder if he'll be able to play in the Leary fundraiser when he's President?

:-)

[loyalsister]

12. Lame as hell, actually

Klien is surely pro-Kerry. Sadly, he doens't even pretend to be objective. Kerry has said that Bush was wrong about the war and that Dean was wrong about the war. I wondered then what he was carving out for himself. Klein took his cue to summarrize it for him. There is nothing more lame than trying to have it both ways. Except getting away with it, maybe. I would respect him more if he would say he fell for a line of bull or something.

[tpub]

13. this is the problem

what do you mean about trying to have it both ways? I know I'm opening a can of worms here but...

Bush WAS fucking wrong about the war. Kerry knows that. He didn't vote for Bush's war. He voted to get some more checks and balances on Saddam Hussein!

Kerry knows about global crime and terrorism. He didn't want to start a unilateral war; but he didn't want to ignore a known dictator and war monger. Something had to be done. Preferably, more and stronger inspections, and if that didn't work, the threat of force, and if that didn't work, actual force, but not unilateral force!

It's so very easy for people to say that Kerry was in favor of Bush's war, when he very clearly WAS NOT.

[loyalsister]

15. The point is

he made it possible for him to start what has become a very unpopular war. Now he's peddling very hard to sell a reason why noone should be bothered by it. His explanations are sounding very lame.
It's all about public perception. Yes, there are nuances, and I give him the benefit of the doubt for his vote. However, it's all too nuanced for the general public. It really makes him trouble for the general.

[sandnsea]

17. Kerry is Senator All Powerful

All by himself, he made it possible for Bush to lie about and hype the intelligence, control the media, alienate the world, circumvent the UN, and spit in the face of Congress and launch this ill-conceived war. Wow, I know John Kerry is a magnificent human being, but I didn't even know he had ALL THAT power!!!

This is not nuanced. This is simple. Saddam had weapons for many years, all agencies said so. Sanctions and containment were killing people and pissing off the ME. To work towards stability in the region, something must be done. The only thing Saddam listens to is force. Vote to move towards resolution of the Iraq situation or vote to do nothing. Simple. Kerry, with much anguish and concern, votes to move forward.

What Bush did with it after that is on Bush.

[DrFunkenstein]

18. You Contradict Yourself

If it is easy enough for Klein to shill for Kerry, I imagine the public shouldn't have a hard time swallowing it. Klein nailed the nuances in a single sentence - two ideas connected by a single conjuction.

And, as a matter of fact, Kerry's position is in line with the overwhelming majority of Americans - Saddam was a menace to be dealt with, but dealt with effectively. When you go to a Dean Meetup, perhaps a few hundred passionate people may seem like a majority, but I guarantee you they are not.

In any case, we must ultimately agree to disagree. You believe what you want, I believe what I want, and we vote for the guy that isn't Bush.

[tsipple]

21. We Agree, DrFunkenstein

The point of my post. Thanks for stating it well.

[ModerateMiddle]

22. Not trouble for the general election

Surely you don't mean that Kerry's position on the Iraq war is going to be a problem for the general election! One of the problems for Kerry's campaign to date is that he is running for the general already, instead of running to the left for the primaries. Part of it probably was a strategy to not get labeled "Massachusetts Liberal", but it has put him behind Dean, who (despite all of the signs that point to him being much more of a centrist) is donning the Liberal Label (Democratic Wing of the Democratic Party, ala Paul Wellstone).

The general population in this country is quite torn over Iraq. It's very different than denizens of DU. The vast majority of Dean supporters are anti-Iraq war. The vast majority of Americans are torn and a "nuanced position" - "Yes, use force if necessary, but build a coalition first, and only go to war as a very last resort." - is very understandable.

[tsipple]

25. Yes, I Do

Lieberman (of all people!) said it pretty well a couple days ago. He and Dean both have firm positions. Kerry is trying to have it both ways on this issue. In my humble opinion.

Doesn't make him evil, bad, or anything else. (Well, some people think so, but I don't.) I *do* think it's a political problem. Because the Republicans are going to try to run the same playbook against Kerry that they did against Gore: that's he's a waffling intellectual who lies and can't take a position.

Which is total crap, of course, but I'm talking politics here.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

30. Interesting observation, ls.

Kerry has said that Bush was wrong about the war and that Dean was wrong about the war. I wondered then what he was carving out for himself.

Gotta chew on that one.

[tsipple]

14. Not the Issue I'd Encourage Kerry to Keep Arguing

It's a loser, and more so every day as Iraq descends into costly lawlessness.

Free advice, for what it's worth.

Besides, I don't buy the argument that the U.S. couldn't threaten force unless Congress authorized it. All kinds of sabre rattling was available to Congress, including Biden-Lugar.

Yes/no votes suck for policians, don't they? They have to take a stand and be counted on a life-or-death issue. That's why they get paid the big bucks. Life's not fair. Suck it up. :-)

[sandnsea]

16. Biden-Lugar wasn't available

What sucks more is being a liar and being exposed as one. George Bush doesn't tell the truth. Howard Dean doesn't tell the truth.

John Kerry told the truth about the sanctions and the need to resolve Iraq. He told the truth when he voted to have a threat of military action, knowing it was necessary to enforce disarmament, with war as a last resort. He told the truth when he said we ought not rush to war and should have a solid plan for the peace. He has told the truth and voted the truth. As he sees it. Dennis Kucinich has told the truth as he sees it. Bob Graham has told the truth as he sees it.

Howard Dean is the ONLY candidate who has said Saddam was a danger, he trusted the President, we should go to war unilaterally in 60 days AND that he was anti-war, Congress abdicated its responsibilities and no one should have trusted Bush, all at the same time. How did Dean propose to deal with the danger of Saddam and allow inspections to continue when he had absolutely no plan to get the inspectors in there in the first place?

The Iraq war is a loser for Howard Dean because he never had a plan to deal with Saddam, and Iraq absolutely would require a plan, sooner or later. That's called weak on defense, something we absolutely DO NOT need in a Democratic candidate right now.

[sandnsea]

19. What are you doing in here?

You said you didn't troll positive Kerry threads.

[tsipple]

20. No, I Don't

I'm making the point that Joe Klein's article is not helpful to Kerry, because it keeps perpetuating the Iraq issue, against Kerry's political interests. That's one more Joe Klein story that wasn't written about something that would prove Kerry would make an excellent president.

I don't want the media focusing on Kerry's Iraq vote, because it's costing him Democratic votes in critical New Hampshire. Instead I want the media focusing on Kerry's accomplishments and vision for where he wants to lead the country, both of which are excellent.

Look, it's pretty simple for me. I want to end up with a Democratic nominee -- big D required -- who's going to win in November, 2004. If it's Howard Dean, fantastic. If it's John Kerry, excellent. If it's Rep. Rosa DeLauro (to pick a random Democrat who's not even in the race), bravo. Klein's article ain't helping Kerry (IMHO), so it ain't doing anything to accomplish that mission.

I personally believe that Howard Dean is the Democrat (big D) who stands the best chance to beat Bush, based on the evidence available to me. But I want every candidate, John Kerry included, to be as strong as possible so that everybody is tested and so that the nominating process actually picks the Democrat (big D) most likely to beat Bush. I hope you can see that.

Now, why the "big D" references? Because I got issues with Clark at present on that question. I'm not pleased he helped raise money for the Arkansas GOP a little over two years ago. I want him to run for Arkansas governor in 2006 first, to get some political chops, and then go for the big job.

[blm]

24. But you're happy Dean supported Bush 2 yrs, ago

on Yucca Mt. for his GOP energy company donors. You're happy that Dean is FOR deregulation?

You're happy that the CATO Institute thinks Dean was the FIRST Democrat they could work with? Why do you think that would be possible? Because Dean was the FURTHEST RIGHT out of all the Democrats at the time.

[tsipple]

26. Whoa, Let's Try One Attack Per Paragraph, OK?

A little too obtuse there. I think what you mean is that Dean supported the Yucca Mountain nuclear waste repository in Nevada.

I don't know if he does or not, but I do. (Sorry, Nevada. You get the nuclear trash this time. My home state, Illinois, gets lots of landfills. :-))

Nuclear waste sucks.
It exists.
Keeping it where it is now is more environmentally unsafe.
Keeping it where it is now is more vulnerable to terrorism.
Yucca Mountain is not perfect but is better.
Nuclear waste sucks. (Repeat loop.)

Got any better idea for where to put the stuff?

By the way, here's a quote on Howard Dean's security concerns: “I’m not so worried about the core; I’m worried about the spent fuel pool,” Gov. Howard Dean of Vermont told the New York Times (November 2, 2001). “There’s basically no protection there.”

He's right. Oh, and don't be silly about the "GOP energy company donors" stuff. Of course Dean doesn't support Bush cronyism. Please.

With respect to electricity deregulation, I have no particular problem with that provided there are consumer protections and the lights stay on. California's version was bad, obviously, but it's not the only version out there. For the record, Vermont's lights (almost everywhere) stayed on during the Northeast Blackout this past August. And their regulated energy was priced way too high, so consumers were feeling the pinch.

It's not something he'll be doing any of in Washington, though, except to regulate private electricity producers. And the lights did stay on in Vermont.

Uh, yeah, the CATO Institute is libertarian, and they see a lot of things they like in Dean. (CATO hates George W. Bush, by the way, for increasing the size of government and curtailing civil rights.) I don't agree with everything the libertarians espouse, but I agree with several items. CATO (and I) like Dean's balanced budget and fiscal prudence, civil unions (recognizing same-sex relationships with legal benefits), and grassroots (non-big donor) organizing, for example. CATO is not right wing. It's libertarian. By the way, Colorado is chock full of libertarians (relatively speaking), and winning that state's electoral votes would be a major coup.

[blm]

23. Joe Klein pegged Clinton early on, too.

Klein has always been attracted to intellect and capability.

[tsipple]

27. Well, SORT OF...

Klein also wrote "Primary Colors," which was not the most flattering piece of work.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

28. Courage or expediency?

Kerry has been consistently knocked here for casting a 'politically expedient' vote on the Iraq Resolution. But Kerry is no political neophyte. He knew his vote would anger the exact people he needed the most to win the nomination. And he did what he thought was right anyway.

[Octafish]

29. Sen. Kerry did what he thought was best for the country.

You hit the nail on the head, Feanorcurufinwe. An expert on international terrorism, Sen. Kerry did the difficult thing and voted to protect America first. He knew what doing so would mean to the idealists in his party. Unlike most of those running for president and Bush, he also knew personally what it wouild mean to the men and women in harm's way. And still, he put the country ahead of his own interests, as he always has.