This poll is bogus

[molly]

http://www.potuspoll.com/

My number 1 choice was John Kerry - number 2 was Clark - 3 was Edwards. This poll is bogus - my vote went to Clark.

[Egnever]

1. Why is that bogus?

I assume you are talking about the runnoff poll end result?

[bicentennial_baby]

2. Yep

I voted for Clark, and it told me my vote would be for Dean...what is this, a Diebold website?!? :P

[PAMod]

3. Maybe its one of those "a vote for Nader is a vote for Bush" things...

only they just go ahead and do it for you.

[Egnever]

4. Again are you talking about the runnoff results?

? :shrug:

[molly]

5. Nope

[Egnever]

7. ok took it myself

And yes your vote counted for kerry.

"Your vote always counts toward your highest-ranked eligible candidate, but it may be that some of your candidates were eliminated because they did not have enough votes. In the final round of this tally, your vote counted for: "

This is a logical progression bassed on peoples rankings runing through elimintaion rounds. By droping the lowest ranked candidate/s each round then reasigning thier votes based on the preferances they chose. Till all candidates are eliminated. Leaving you with the winner

In your case your vote went to kerry till he was eliminated then went to your second preference unless they were also eliminated allready and on till it defaults to the winner.

This is actually a pretty cool poll sry that the results arent agreeable for you. If you want to change it all you need to do is get more people to rank kerry as thier first choice.

[Fabio]

8. Just thought of something.

If Dean's middle initial was W instead of B, could you imagine what that would do to your graphic. I hope you find this funny, cause I am only kidding around, BUT

HOWARD W DEAN
HEADOWNWARD

that would be bad...

[Northwind]

6. Maybe you guys should read the section of the site that explains IRV

In an instant run off system, you vote for several choices based your own preference. If your number one is not doing well in the poll overall, your number 2 gets your vote, or your 3, depending on how the overall poll is shaping up. In other words, if a every chose different primary choices, but everyone's secondary was Howard Dean, Howard Dean wins. OR whoever. You get the point.

For those that react with hostility to this, remember that an Instant Runoff Voting system enables 3rd parties and even multiple choices with the same party. If we had IRV in our elections in 2000, all those people that voted for Nader could have named Gore as their second and Bush would not be in the White House now.

[Kahuna]

9. Dean was #12 on my vote. #1 was Clark. My vote went to Dean.

:wtf:

[diamondsoul]

21. if you didn't rank him at all, he wouldn't have gotten your

transferred vote.

Ok, I ranked 6 candidates, all Dems. When my final vote was tallied, it went to my first choice guy because he was the last man left against the winner (Dean, then Kucinich!). I kind of regret my vote for this month because I meant to rank Graham and missed it.

On an IRV ballot, you leave blank anyone you don't want elected at all, that way they never have a chance to get a transfer vote from one of your choices being eliminated.

[molly]

10. Well, it's more than bogus - it's fixed

I got the vote email this morning and voted immediately. I then sent a nastygram to them and this is what I just got back:

The way Instant Runoff Voting works is that..
IF your number 1 choice is eliminated in the sequential runoff,
THEN your vote goes to your number 2, Clark.
When the poll shows you where your vote went, it means that your higher ranked choices were eliminated.

"INSTANT" Runoff - come on!

on edit - I have a feeling that if Dean were anywhere on my ballot, my vote would have counted to him - who runs this site?

[Northwind]

11. yeah, that's it

Because any poll that shows anyone but your guy winning must be fixed. Which in your case, would mean that every poll everywhere must be fixed.

[molly]

12. My guy is going to be president

what will yours be doing?

[Sean Reynolds]

13. Hm, who is atop in the polls?

Last I checked it was neck and neck with Clark and Dean - while Kerry is 3rd. So now not only does he have ONE candidate to battle, he's got two.

[molly]

14. He's not battling with Clark

Kerry is our next president.

[indigo32]

15. Maybe

or maybe not

[Sean Reynolds]

18. Good to know!

I'll send the memo out to the 9 other candidates and tell 'em it's already been decided Kerry will be the next president.

[Northwind]

20. It's cute that you believe that and all

But it is never going to happen. Kerry is already finished.

[DemDogs]

32. Didn't rate Dean

But my "vote was counted for Dean" -- I mean I listed five people and Dean was NOT one of them. But it was a "counted for Dean" -- I am not interested in explanations because there is no explanation that could make this anything but a scam.

[quinnox]

16. Instant runoff sucks

Thankfully, it will very likely never replace the election system of today.

[acerbic]

17. It sure does!

Think how brutally honest and simple it would be if people could always vote for the candidate who they actually prefer and never end up supporting the greater evil when doing so instead of having to consider "electability" (= who others are believed to like). Pretty big part of the U.S. propaganda industry might become unemployed. There could be universal healthcare, public schools on the same level as in other equally developed countries and who knows what other horrors. :eyes:

[LWolf]

28. IRV allows for every single person to vote for their real choice

without fear of losing to the opposition. It's ideal for primaries. If your first choice doesn't make it, then your runners up have a chance. You don't have to cast a vote for a candidate you don't want it to count for.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

19. Agreed. Runoff elections ok -- but 'instant' runoff would result in

more circuses like the one going on right now in California.

[diamondsoul]

22. How?

With IRV, there's no possibility of electing someone NOBODY wants in office because they won't get any votes at all, or so few they'll be eliminated almost immediately. Because of that, the people will be able to accept whoever the winner is because most of them have actually ranked that person as acceptable.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

31. You could also

have someone elected who nobody chose as their preferred candidate. "everybody's second choice"? not very inspiring.

[molly]

23. This is very obviously a site run by Dean people

:puke:

[diamondsoul]

24. Molly, it doesn't have anything to do with who runs the site.

It's instant run-off, that's all.

Once more, when I went over there to vote, I had already read up on IRV and how it works. I knew how to mark the ballot so that nobody I didn't want elected could possibly get my final vote. YES if you had ranked Dean he would have gotten your vote in the final tally. It seems more Dean and Kucinich supporters are voting at this place than any of the others. I personally thought it was pretty cool to actually try out an IRV election and see how it played out.

The only thing that you have to remember in IRV is to rank those candidates that are accpetable to you and leave blank those that aren't.

[MercutioATC]

25. Did you not understand the methodology employed?

It's not that difficult. You might not agree with the results, but it's hardly a biased poll.

[molly]

26. So, the way it is explained is that if 50 people vote for

a candidate FIRST and along comes 50 votes for various other candidates - candidate 1 wins? Bullshit. That is truly stupid and unfair.

[diamondsoul]

30. let's see if I can explain it a little more clearly.

Ok, say we've got 4 candidates running and 100 people vote. Now the votes are cast by ranking the candidates on the ballot, leaving blank any candidate you would NOT want your vote cast for ever. In the first race you'll have a result like this-

1 gets 33 votes
2 gets 41 votes
3 gets 15 votes
4 gets 11 votes

Candidate 4 is eliminated and his votes are split between the second choice candidates on those 11 ballots. So let's say that 4 people chose candidate 1, another 4 chose candidate 2, and 2 chose candidate 3

Now the votes show this result-

1 gets 37 votes
2 gets 45 votes
3 gets 17 votes.

Candidate 3 is now eliminated and the votes are once again split according to the second and third choices on those ballots, say 7 chose candidate 2, and 4 chose candidate 1, the other 6 left a third and fourth choice blank so those ballots are set aside.

The final tally is

1 gets 41 votes
2 gets 52 votes and wins the election.

The change in who your vote goes to is a result of one of your selected candidates having been defeated and eliminated from the race, shifting your vote to one of the other candidates you ranked on your ballot.

[MercutioATC]

33. Thanks, diamondooul. My point was that it's not biased. You illustrated

it very well.

[molly]

36. But this is INSTANT - I wonder if I could see their code?

maybe I'll email them and ask.

[DemDogs]

27. Spam and scam: Dean on the internet

I gave an email address I don't use much, and I expect to get Dean solicitation mail there even though I did not rank Dean.
This is how the Dean people are using the internet -- spam and scam.

[Mikhale]

29. Imagine

If the politicos on this site don't understand IRV, what will Joe/Jane Sixpack make of it? Plus, that poll uses computer technology, which doesn't have the best reputation these days. PR and IRV may be the way to go, but the challenges may be insurmountable to the uninitiated.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

34. There does seem to be a transparency problem

The concept itself is opaque enough to most people as you point out. But add BBV to IRV and you got a bad tasting alphabet soup, IMHO.

[LWolf]

37. Agreed, but...

Was anyone really suggesting that BBV and IRV are inextricably linked, or should be???

Is Molly's beef IRV?

Or that her candidate didn't get the most votes with IRV, so she didn't "win?"

Or that she didn't/doesn't understand the process and didn't leave those candidates she doesn't support out of her votes, so her vote counted for someone she doesn't like?

Or BBV?

I like IRV. I think we should try it. Smaller, local races would be a good place. I also think it is perfect for primaries; we can vote our real choice without worrying that it will benefit our last choice.

BBV issues need to be resolved no matter what sort of vote/s we're casting.

[Forkboy]

35. most polls are

It's a shame this country puts so much stock in them.