DeLay vs. Kucinich

[ButterflyBlood]

now just bear with this analogy.

It's pretty agreed that DeLay could never be elected president barring massive fraud on a scale never before seen.

But some argue Kucinich can be elected by "mobilizing the base" and getting new people to vote.

Then why couldn't DeLay get elected? Wouldn't he mobilize the Republican base and bring out all those conservatives in places like New York City and San Francisco who don't vote now because the candidates are never conservative enough?

[dpbrown]

1. That assumes the Republican message of "me first" works

Compared with Kucinich, who is bringing in endorsements from the parties and people who left the Democratic Party as it moved closer to the "me first" side, and started favoring corporations over helping real people.

The far right message of fundamentalism, bloated government giving handouts to the rich, corporate sycophantism, and a renewed aristocracy built on top of keeping the poor down does nothing to rope in those arguably "further" to the right, if Libertarian is defined as further to the right.

Other than Libertarians, is there anyone else who has been driven from the Republican Party because it's not far enough right?

[ButterflyBlood]

2. The Constitution Party and Pat Buchanan

n/t

[JohnKleeb]

3. yes them

but isnt Delay pro Israel, I hate the constiution party and the majority of Buchanan and lets be honest those two groups are very anti semtic.

[lcordero]

10. they are more "America Firsters" and isolationists than xenophobic

[JohnKleeb]

11. shrug

:shrug:

[Loyal]

8. The libertarians aren't far right

nt

[Mairead]

4. Sure, why couldn't he win?

If the votes are there, why not.

I think it's fairly clear that the votes wouldn't be there for any Republican, but I could be wrong.

[Wetzelbill]

5. Most people in our country lean to the left on issues

that are at the center of their lives. Health care, Living Wage, etc. The majority of the population doesn't go any farther right than the center. So why do we have Republicans, let alone Neo-Cons in power? Much of that is politics. Big Business interests. Elites. $$$$ = power. Power gives Righties quite a bit of opportunity to reach voters on issues- the myth of Repubs cutting taxes for the every man and their so-called superiority in security for examples- that they spin to lure in the incognizant public. Many voters vote Republican and consider themselves Conservative even though they really aren't. They don't necessarily get past the propaganda or preconcieved notions. DeLay is not electable because what he says most people don't agree with. Your average Republican considers Delay to be extreme, so the average citizen- who by and large thinks lefty- wonders just what kind of planet Delay is from. Kucinich on the other hand argues and fights for issues that are more at heart with the Average Joe and Jane. Give Delay a chance to spew his ilk about minorities taking all the good spots in Vietnam or just how some poor people don't deserve Child tax credits, than he'd be lucky to get out of most places alive. Give Dennis the shot to be heard and people would rally around him. That's the biggest difference in the two men right there.

[no name no slogan]

6. You're making a false assumption

You're assuming that both major political parties are near the center of the spectrum: one center-right, the other center-left. The reality is much different than that. We currently have one far-right/radical right party (the Repubs) and one center-right party (the Dems).

That "Republican Base" that DeLay would mobilize has already been mobilized, and has been since the late 70s/early 80s. The Repubs re-invented their party post-Nixon by appealing to the social conservatives and right-wing religious wackos who had previously not voted, or voted for old-timey "Southern Democrats" who mostly became Repubs in the 70s and 80s. These people have been recruited into the Republican party, and have swelled their ranks enough that they're now able to carry not only the south, but much of religiosly-conservative middle America, too.

The Democratic Party, unfortunately, has spent the last twelve years abandoning its base of working people and racial/ethnic minorities in its quest for big corporate money and power. In other words, they have almost completely ABANDONED their base in an effort to appeal to the economic conservatives on Wall Street.

Kucinich is right RE: mobilizing the base. Jackson did just that in his '88 campaign, where he registered a huge number of new voters in the South. These voters have made a difference, electing several Democratic members to Congress and the Senate from the deep south.

Also, check out the voter turnout numbers over the last 12 years. More and more people are staying home, and more and more Republicans are winning elections. That means our base is not MOTIVATED enough to vote for our candidates, who have also been more and more "centrist" in an effort to appeal to the "swing vote".

If we put up a candidate who speaks for our base, has a stupendous record on our big issues, and is trustworthy, we CAN win this thing. If we nominate another "centrist" beholden to big money, we're in for a repeat of the last 12 years, where our winners have won by ever-narrowing margins.

[Loyal]

7. I think DeLay could be elected

I would never rule that out. We had Nixon and Raygun, didn't we? I think that Kucinich would put up a good fight in the general election, but he would never get the Democratic nomination. He'd have to put up an independent campaign.

[ButterflyBlood]

12. Nixon would actually be fairly moderate by today's standards

Reagan was nowhere near as crazy as DeLay is in what he says. What type of electoral scenario can you see him winning in? I don't see him getting any swing voters and in liberal states even most Republicans would refuse to vote for him.

[genius]

9. Dennis is a mainstream centrist. Delay is not.

Although to Howard Dean, Delay might be a centrist.

The average person polled about their views has views identical to Dennis's.

http://www.fluxrostrum.com/MindFlux/DennisKucinich/electable-candidates.htm