Wesley Clark's soap opera -- Chris Lehane joins Team Clark

[Larkspur]

http://www.usnews.com/usnews/politics/whispers/whispwebarch.htm

<SNIP>
Interesting, said the insiders, was who showed up minutes after Fowler left his office: Ex-John Kerry and Al Gore spokesman Chris Lehane. He's the able partner to Clark PR adviser Mark Fabiani. Lehane's just the latest of a wave of Washingtonians and Clintonistas to lend a hand to the Clark effort.
<SNIP>

Lehane just finished a stint with Gray Davis's Recall campaign. With Dems like Lehane, you don't need Repukes.

[Gloria]

1. Again, I implore that Lehane be kept OFF CAMERA

he is so wimpy...every time I saw him during 2000 I cringed.....UGH!

[Demobrat]

2. Gray ran a campaign?

You could have fooled me.

[Pez]

49. it was a prototype high-tech stealth campaign

back to the ol' drawing board...

[wyldwolf]

3. The team of Fabiani and Lehane helped win Clinton two elections...

...Lehane left the Kerry campaign because he felt Kerry wasn't be aggressive enough.

I welcome this news. They're like a junior Carville and Begala.

[Larkspur]

7. Junior Carvilles and Begalas?

Lehane and Fabiani wouldn't know who they were.

Dean, Trippi, and us Deanocrats beat L & F when they were with Kerry. We'll defeat them when they are with Clark.

The times have changed and the old Clinton strategy isn't working. Lehane and Fabiani are going the way of the dinosaurs.

[Name removed]

12. Deleted message

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[Vis Numar]

28. Source?

"The team of Fabiani and Lehane helped win Clinton two elections..."

What utter bullshit.

[bushclipper]

30. Pretty common knowledge if you've followed politics since the early 90s..

..that Fabiani and Lehane were in on at least Clinton's 96 campaign. Sid Blumenthal has a passage on Fabiani and Lehane in his book.

[Name removed]

4. Deleted message

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[wyldwolf]

5. nah, let him continue...

...so much of it is so absurd but it does give me good practice for fending off the same rightwing talking points when the GOP starts using them WHEN Clark gets the nomination.

[Avalux]

6. he he

good point wyldwolf. :toast:

[Rowdyboy]

8. You'd think it would get boring after a while...

Evidently not... :shrug:

[Cha]

9. Just like all the bashers of Dean don't get tired of it?

Poor Clark! I think he can stand up to the scutiny of DUers..otherwise he would be toast.

[Rowdyboy]

10. I can only speak for one person, Zidzi

but for what its worth, I have never bashed Dean because he's my second choice for the nomination. It makes no sense for me to bash him because he may very well end up on the ticket, either top or bottom, and I'll be able to vote for him.

I don't want to tear down your guy to get my guy elected. I hope Clark can continue to refrain from personal attacks and I wish others would join him. We need to be attacking George Bush, not each other.

[Larkspur]

11. If Clark had any credibility as a Democrat, I won't be so cynical of him

But he reeks of a flim-flam man.

At least Dean has a record as a Democrat to evaluate and has a long history in the Party, whether you agree with him or not. Clark doesn't have a record as a Democrat, at least a verifiable one, and I don't like mercenary Dems, who help at Republican fundraisers and praise Neo-cons and then think that they can swoop in and wow Democrats with their medals and stars.

And my other issue with Clark, is that he has no elected civilian political experience to help Dean on a ticket. Dean would be more likely to look for a Democrat that has experience working in Congress. Sen. Graham would be more of a help to Dean than Clark, who has no experience in political campaigning or holding elected office.

Clark is overrated as a Democratic Prez candidate. He is immensely qualified to be Secretary of Defense.

[Avalux]

13. So that's it

your predisposed restrictions about who and who can't be a Democrat keep you from looking at Clark objectively. Where do you get off calling him a mercenary Dem??

And since you seem absolutely sure Dean will get the nom; why bother bashing Clark at all? Why bother worrying if Clark could help him on a ticket? Flawed logic.

On edit: you're scared, aren't you?

[wyldwolf]

14. Yeah, he's scared!

[Cha]

15. NO! I don't think She's "scared" a bit! She's a Brave Go Gettin'

Democrat! Larkspur :yourock:

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

16. Scared? No.

Too busy laughing her ass off? Probably!

[Avalux]

18. Couple a cheerleaders, huh?

Laughing - sure, whatever you say.

Ask Larkspur (since you speak for her) who she'll support if Dean doesn't get the nomination?

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

21. I WILL ask her!

As soon as she's done laughing.....

[Cha]

31. Any bloke could tell I'm not speaking for Larkspur ..but giving

her a compliment!

[mmonk]

17. Yes and I understand

"Clarke was a Republican until 25 days ago". I mean, why the lie? Is Dean himself scared?

[Avalux]

19. You betcha.

:scared:

[tsipple]

27. What's incorrect about that observation?

Wesley Clark would not answer the simple question (from journalists) of whether he was (is) a Democrat (big D) up until VERY recently. He only announced his candidacy in September and only changed his party registration in Arkansas this month (October, 2003). Previously he appeared as the keynote speaker at an Arkansas GOP fundraiser. And praised President Bush and a big chunk of his Cabinet effusively.

It's a fair hit. It may not be pleasant, but it's fair. Clark may or may not be able to deal with these facts -- I don't know. We'll see how it develops, and we'll see how Democratic voters factor it into their decisionmaking.

Call me old fashioned, but I'd like to vote for a Democrat for the Democratic Party presidential nomination.

[seamarq]

35. He is dealing with these questions just fine thanks.......

He is a Democrat. Unfortunately, he may not be the judgemental idealogue that you are. If you don't want new people in the party, just fucking vote for Bush. I didn't know Dem candidates needed a blood test....

[Larkspur]

26. No, I'm not scared. I'm a "Celtic Tigress" and I'm pissed

This is me after eating a Clark bar.

I think the red stuff on my whiskers is "Lehane & Fabiani" jelly someone injected into the Clark bar.


Calling Clark on his Democratic credentials is not bashing. It is a justifiable accusation, considering his known history. And pointing out Clark's lack of civilian political campaign and office experience is also justified, especially since he turned down a golden opportunity to run for Governor of Arkansas from the Democratic Party in 2000. He could have taken Clinton's old office, managed it well (assuming he could), won re-election at least once, and then launch a bid for President from Clinton's old seat.

Experience with handling the civilian affairs of state well is as important, if not more so, than higher education and military expertise. Governor Dean's success at turning a financial mess in Vermont into a boon for the state is the right kind of experience a Democratic Presidential Nominee and future President needs for America. What Dean has that Clark doesn't, is that alchemical quality great politicians have -- turning disaster into success without destroying our democracy and enhancing human rights.

[seamarq]

36. and calling Dean on his waffeling is fair....

you seem to forget the contradictions your candidate had put forth. Dean hads fucking handlesd Vermont....my stupid boss could do that.

[Larkspur]

38. Dean was a great Governor of Vermont

Gov Snelling's death thrust Dean into the governor's office unexpectently, and instead of screwing up, Dean took a fiscal disaster and turned it into a boon for Vermont. Instead of caving into "tax and spend" liberal Democrats, Dean broke the Rightwing's argument against Dems and proved that Democrats can balance budgets and promote social justice causes.

Dean was re-elected 5 times and survived the worse assault on his last bid from fanatics on the Left and Right after signing the Civil Unions bill. Dean is the best prepared of all the Dem Prez candidates to take on Bush & Rove.

How many times has Clark been re-elected by civilians? Oh, I forgot! Clark has never held elected civilian political office before. You know, Clark did have a chance to do so and to hold one as a Democrat when the Arkansas Dems offered Clark a spot on their governor ticket in 2000, but the General passed that offer to prove himself. That corporate lobby job and those speaking engagements, like the one where he praised Bush and the PNAC gang in 2001, were too lucrative to give up, I guess.

[returnable]

50. Do you ever tire of contradicting yourself?

First, ya say Clark has no cred as a Dem cuz he gave a speech to Repugs in 2001.

THEN you say Clark blew a golden chance to run as a Dem in 2000 for Arky governor.

If Clark was a closet Repug, as you like to say, how the hell could've he run as a Dem candidate in 2000?

Geez - you Deanies crack me up. When yer boy embarrasses himself (repeatedly, I might add) by flip-flopping, you chalk it up as personal "evolution"...

But if another candidate "evolves", he's a "fraud."

Double standard? Uh, yeah.

By the way, why is everyone on Clark on his voting record? Why doesn't anyone check Howie's voting tab? Why has no one asked Howie who he voted for in 1980? Based on his considerable right-wing leanings, it wouldn't surprise me in the least to find out "Doc Baker" pulled the lever for a few Repugs in his day.

Of course, no one bothers to ask him.

Probably cuz they don't expect him to answer honestly.

[Padraig18]

51. Once again, please quit lumping ALL Dean supporters together!

The vast majority of Gov. Dean's supporters are, like myself, *more than ready* to leave this non-issue and move on to substantive policy differences. If you read most 'Clark flaming' threads, you will find MANY *Deanies* ( I *hate* that term!) d-e-f-e-n-d-i-n-g Gen. Clark from these ridiculous attacks!

PLEASE QUIT SAYING "YOU DEANIES ARE ALL ALIKE"! IT IS OFFENSIVE, UNFAIR AND UNTRUE! :grr:

[wyldwolf]

53. Well, maybe it's the Deanies who keep hammering the non-issue...

...and their more intelligent counterparts - the Deanites - who prefer the substantive policy differences.

I would call you a Deanite.

[Padraig18]

54. I am a Deanite

My objection is that far too many won't make the same mental distinction between us that you do. :hi:

[Skwmom]

23. Flim-flam man?

Have we entered the twilight zone? I'd take a more objective look at Dean if I were you. Now there is one phony candidate.

[tedoll78]

29. It's like looking into a mirror!

hehe!

I'm a Dean man, but I can't bring myself to attack Clark. In fact, I wish the two candidates would make some sort of gentleman's agreement that they not attack each other, even if it comes down to one or the other. They may well end-up paired together in some combination or another, and it'd make for a very uplifting/positive race.

There I go again.. fleeing to a fantasy world..

[LuminousX]

24. How is the original post a flame against Clark?

eskimo

[wyldwolf]

25. For one, he compared a former Clinton and Gore campaign worker...

...to a republican - an underhanded attempt to paint Clark as a republican.

[Padraig18]

32. For one, the use of the term 'soap opera'...

... is usually a pretty good *clue* that it's a flame.:eyes:

I wish Dean people would quit this--- it is NOT helping Howard, God dammit! :grr:

On edit: We, like all people who live in glass houses, should not throw stones; remember, Howard has replaced a campaign manager...

[Larkspur]

33. "Soap opera" came from US News title

not me. Go to the link and see it for yourself.

[Padraig18]

34. How convenient

Lifting a title from a right-wing rag saved you from thinking up one on your own...

[Larkspur]

37. It's not uncommon on this site to use headlines in a posts subject

line.

If you want to whore for Clark, go ahead, but this is a democracy and those of us who question Clark's credibility have every right to challenge it.

[Name removed]

40. Deleted message

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[Larkspur]

42. You declared war on me, and I fight back

If you don't like it, get off the battlefield.

[Padraig18]

43. I've not declared war on you

It's your irrational, almost pathological hatred of Clark I find obnoxious AND destructive to the success of our party in November 2004! Clark supporter's votes count one-for-one like anyone else's, and you seem to have made it your mission in life to work as hard as possible to alienate them from Howard and his quest for the Presidency!

[Larkspur]

47. I don't base my decision to support or not support a candidate

based upon the candidate's supporters. I base it upon the candidate, pure and simple. It's the candidate's job, not the candidate's supporters, to convince me to support him/her.

If Clark supporters base their disapproval of Dean on me, then they are immature voters. I'm not basing my opinion of Clark on them but on the general himself.

[Padraig18]

52. It is your *tactics* that they find offensive! n/t

[Larkspur]

58. Gee, I could say the same about them and their candidate

What a lousy excuse you offer.

[Rowdyboy]

20. I'm begininning to fear that after you finish

defining who and what a "real" Democrat is , I may no longer fit into the party that I have supported for over 30 years. I believe my judgement in who "is" and "isn't" a Democrat is worth exactly what yours is.

Not liking a specific candidate is certainly understandable if one is pursuing a particular agenda. But your (IMO) irrational hatred of General Clark seems to go beyond that. What drives you to hate a Democrat so strongly?

Other than George Wallace, I've never despised a Democratic presidential candidate.

[Avalux]

22. Well stated Rowdyboy

However, in Larkspur's eyes, Clark is not a Democrat. Whatever.

With that, I bid adieu from this rediculously sophomoric thread (partly my doing, I know). :hi:

[Meshuga]

39. Agreement from a Kerry Supporter

Well said!

I personally think that trying to portray Clark as a Republican is a stupid tactic. It's almost childish. This technique only feeds the people who already dislikes Clark and makes undecided voters see "the attacker" as a jerk who cares more about attacks than the issues.

I'm a Kerry supporter and I wish he didn't attack Clark's alligiance to the party. I wish Kerry went after Clark's plan which is very unclear at the moment.

That would be more effective than calling Clark a Republican in my opinion. Because Clark is not a Republican.

[Padraig18]

41. I agree

It's stupid to alienate the supporters of any candidate by constantly flaming and bashing them. Their votes will count just like OURS will, come next November.

[mmonk]

44. Thanks

MrWiggles and Padraig18. Alienating us if Clark doesn't win isn't really a prudent idea.

[Padraig18]

45. Yep!

And unlike some people who are blinded by their illogical, pathological hatred of Clark, it IS about winning in November 2004! :thumbsup:

[CWebster]

46. yikes!

http://www.dissidentvoice.org/Articles8/DVNS_Wesley-Clark.htm

[wyldwolf]

48. Dean! Yikes! (since we're posting dissidentvoice links)

http://www.dissidentvoice.org/Articles8/Frank_Dean-Sorrell-Corruption.htm

http://www.dissidentvoice.org/Articles7/Frank_Dean-Death-Penalty.htm

http://www.dissidentvoice.org/Articles7/Frank_Howard-Dean.htm

[mikehiggins]

55. I gather someone doesn't like Clark?

It is an interesting plate of stories that your link leads to.

So I take it you feel that electing Clark would be worse for the United States than re-electing Bush?

If so, when you get the opportunity to vote against him in the primaries, feel free. Who knows? Maybe your faction will prevail.

I would certainly support Dr. Dean if he was the Democratic candidate but I gather you would be unable to vote for Wes Clark if he was the standard bearer in 2004.

Pity. If enough folks feel that way we might well get to enjoy another four years of Bush, and then perhaps, eight years of Jeb. By that time, of course, it won't make any difference. The entire nation will be in shambles, and our sons and daughters will be engaged in endless colonial wars.

But the purists will be able to bask in the warmth of their knowledge that they did their part to make politics a brighter, cleaner thing.

All I want, on the other hand, is a candidate with a good chance of prying this administration out of office. I just don't see Dr. Dean playing that role.

[Padraig18]

56. The only thing I disagree with is...

... your estimation of Gov. Dean's chances at unseating *; however, I also intend to support our party's candidate, whichever one of the current nine that becomes. This election is not about purity--- it is about our sovereign right of self-government.

[robbedvoter]

57. Here's the complete list (from Clark's official website):

> General Clark Announces Key Staff Positions
>
> Little Rock, AR: General Wesley K. Clark (Ret.) today announced that the following individuals have joined his campaign in the past week:
> Eli Segal, Chairman and Chief Executive Officer
> Mickey Kantor, Chairman of the Steering Committee
> Ambassador Richard Sklar, Chief Operating Officer
> Matt Bennett, Director of Communications
> Dianna Rogelle, Finance Director
> Janet Abrams, Director of Administration and Control
> John Hlinko, Director of Internet Strategy
> Steve Bouchard, New Hampshire State Director
> Maya Israel, Associate Director of Communications
> Jamal Simmons, Traveling Press Secretary
> General Clark said, "I am excited about the strong team that we are assembling. This talented group of people brings a wealth of government, non-profit, campaign, and private sector experience to my campaign."
Don't see no Lehane.

[wyldwolf]

59. This was the announcement of Graham people joining Clark's campaign...

For the Lehane story, just Google "Lehane Joins Clark"

Next?

[Rowdyboy]

60. Very impressive...

I had not heard about Mickey Kantor. Having Eli Segal along just tells me the Clintons do silently support Clark. This guy has the support to win if we just give him a chance.