How in the hell can Howard Dean co-sponsor HR 2038?

[pandatimothy]

Just another smear on Dean because he is more pro-gun than everyone else. I hope they do realize Dean isn't in Congress yet supports the AWB?

Gephardt, Kucinich Lead Fight Against Assault Weapons

.............Though other presidential candidates have stated their support for a strengthened assault weapons ban, Reps. Gephardt and Kucinich are the only two to co-sponsor such legislation.........


http://www.jointogether.org/gv/news/alerts/reader/0,2061,567203,00.html

[WillyBrandt]

1. How can Dean say he's the only one to talk

about race in front of white audiences when it's so patently untrue?

And how could he say a few weeks ago that Clark was a Republican "25 days ago"? You could claim that he wasn't a good Democrat, or whatever, but that's the most patent of lies.

Your man is doing plenty of smearing himself.

[pandatimothy]

2. Dude this implying Dean doesn't want to renew the AWB

He does want to! He just isn't able to co-sponsor a renewal bill because HE IS NOT IN CONGRESS!

[wtmusic]

3. LOL Clark still isn't a Democrat

'Most patent of lies?' He might want to make sure this is taken care of before the convention rolls around:

http://www.washtimes.com/national/20031002-122243-1914r.htm

[JohnKleeb]

4. that he isnt but maybe my eyes are tired guys but I didnt see this article

as bashing. I am glad DK and Gep cosponsored this.

[pandatimothy]

5. It's indirectly implying that if

you don't cosponsor a renewal bill you want the ban to go away.

Ummm FOUR of the candidates are not in Congress and cannot co-sponor a bill (Dean, M-B, Clark and Sharpton. LaRouche don't count).

[JohnKleeb]

8. I dunno I couldnt see that

[WillyBrandt]

6. Dean claimed he was a Republican

And he most clearly was not. That was a lie. Dean was called on it; then Dean repeated it. He purposefully mouthed an unambiguous falsehood about a fellow Democrat in order to besmirch peoples' perceptions of him.

Oh, yeah, good work on posting a ten days old article from the WASHINGTON TIMES. Any Fox stories for us?

[wtmusic]

7. Get defensive when you're wrong, huh?

Jeez Willy. Clark's campaign admitted it--can you?

[WillyBrandt]

9. Lying Liars

Dean said Clark was a Republican. He said it twice, even after being called on it the first time.

That's a specific claim. It's not like saying "He's not a Democrat," which folks can haggle over. Nor is it like saying "He's not a REAL Democrat," which leaves the world of black/white verity altogether.

Dean made it up; he's falling behind, so he concocted a ball of slime.

Just like Dean besmirched the entire field of Democrats, when he said (so many times) that he is the only white politician up there who talks about race in front of white audiences.

Another patent falsehood.

Dean just has no high horse to ride on.

[wtmusic]

10. Ouch

Dean is more right than wrong in his estimation of Clark:

"Clark voted for Richard Nixon and Ronald Reagan, praised President Bush and raised money for Arkansas Republicans in 2001."

http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2003-10-01-clark-usat_x.htm

If it walks and talks like a Republican...

[WillyBrandt]

12. Exactly

Dean said he is a Republican when he clearly was not. He voted for Clinton twice and then Gore. (What's this 25 days ago stuff?) He was campaigning for Dems, and spoke at both Dem and GOP events with a Democratic message.

But that's not the point: Dean's sentence was purposefully unambiguous. He said Clark was a Republican, NOT that Clark was wishy-washy. The latter is politics; the former is just a simple lie.

It was a smear job, and Dean needs to be called out on this crap.

[wtmusic]

13. OK OK, so Clark was a Democrat

who was raising money for Arkansas Republicans in 2001, AFTER he voted for Gore?

He's more right than wrong.

[WillyBrandt]

14. "who was raising money for Arkansas Republicans"

Well that's a sneaky way of putting it when he was speaking to groups of both parties.

But that's a mere factual distraction.

And, say, why is it that Dean, the exemplar of the "Democratic wing of the Democratic party," couldn't find time to donate to Democratic candidates while crypto Republican Clark could?

I mean, it just doesn't make any sense considering that he was a Republican just a few days ago. . .

[wtmusic]

15. Nope, sorry

Still ambiguous. For an example of an unambiguous lie, look to Wesley Clark saying he 'probably would have voted for the war' and then saying he wouldn't have.

[WillyBrandt]

16. It twists and turns, and spins some more

Dean said it, got called on it for it being misleading, and then said it again. It's a simple lie: Clark was not a Republican. He was not. Dean could have said he was "acting like a Republican" or "he sure didn't look like a Democrat to me"--but he chose to simply lie.

As for the war quote, Clark was a klutz thinking out loud and it reflected poorly on him to play loosely with a hypothetical to a reporter. But his writings and actions revolve around the importance of multilateralism and the strategic folly of the Iraq war. This is not ambiguous: Clark thought the war was a bad idea.

[wtmusic]

17. Just keep those blinders on...

Clark's lie was about as 'simple' as they get. 'A klutz thinking out loud, playing loosely with a hypothetical, actions revolving around...multilateralism...strategic'

I'm getting dizzy from the spin.

[MrPeepers]

21. If you want to talk about spin,

we can talk about spin. Howard Dean was completely correct in stating that Wes Clark was a Republican a mere 25 days before he entered the race? Explain how that was not spin. Explain how, exactly, Howard Dean was not trying to smear his opponent by claiming him to be a Republican. Last I checked, Republicans were registered republican, didn't attent Democratic fund raisers, and sure as hell didn't vote for Clinton or Gore. I remember back when Dean was very buddy-buddy with Clark, then as soon as he entered the race and he took a bite out of Dean's support base that all changed... The fact is, Dean was dead wrong to call Clark a Republican. That's a low blow, it's disgraceful. But some of you Dean people have proved time and time again that no matter what Howard does wrong, he's still right! It's driving me up the wall - for once admit your guy made a low blow and he was wrong to do it! It's one thing to say Wes Clark should be questioned because he only just entered the Democratic Party, it's another thing entirely to say he must be questioned because he was a Republican, expecially when one is true and the other isn't.

Peepers

[eileen_d]

18. Clark is a registered Democrat now.

Your article is dated October 2nd. It's funny, I tried to Google for a source stating that Clark did officially register (after this article was printed, yes) but all I got was right-wing media sources trumpeting the fact that Clark wasn't a registered Democrat. Hopefully someone else has a cite.

[drfemoe]

11. Clear Message

http://www.candidatesonguns.org/content/meet/cand_dean.html

http://www.candidatesonguns.org/content/meet/cand_dean_state.html

“I'm against a federal gun control law other than what we've already got. I think that should be left to the states…We can win the western states, and I should be able to do a better job winning the western states because guns really matter a lot in the western states. And as it happens, I'm from a rural state and I understand that the gun issue in rural states is different than the gun issue in urban states. My attitude is let California and New York have as much gun control as they want, but just don't make a law that applies equally to Vermont and Wyoming and Montana."
Iowa Press, July 18, 2003

I don't see any Dean smear in your article. otoh Dean states his stance on the issue very plainly.

[DrFunkenstein]

20. Dean Appoints 2nd Amendment Supreme Court Justice

Does anyone here really want a states' rights Justice for the 2nd amendment?

"If I thought gun control would save lives in Vermont, I would support it. If you say "gun control" in Vermont or Tennessee, people think you want to take away their hunting rifle...We need to get guns off the national radar screen if Democrats are ever going to win again in the South and the West."

That seems to me a failure to properly explain the issue to people in Vermont and Tennessee. I don't think the answer is pandering for votes when people are dying every day from interstate weapons trafficking.

And although innocent people are documentedly being sent to death row, Dean supports the death penalty in the most emotional cases of all - children and police officers. I don't want a Supreme Court Justice that believes the death penalty is a viable option in the US criminal system.

[sandnsea]

19. Dean is not the only other candidate

Touchy, touchy, geesh. There's 3 candidates who could co-sponsor gun legislation in the Senate. Seems this would be more of a slam against them than Howard Dean. You Deanie's have really got to get over yourselves.

[displacedtexan]

22. good point!

i read that kerry wrote the original legislation for the COPS Act. when the repubes saw how popular it was (100,000 new cops on the beat), they wanted in.

you're right. other dems could sponsor gun legislation... if they could get their bills to the floor.

[pandatimothy]

23. This is a total slam against Dean et al

All Lieberman, Edwards and Kerry would have to do is co-sponsor S 1431 and ol Josh Horowitz would be out praising them and trashing Dean as "too pro-gun">

[cindyw]

24. I get what you are saying, but

turnabout his fair-play. Dean calls everyone else "Washington insiders" to infer something that is negative, but probably misleading. This claim by Gep and Kucinich is true, but probably misleading. If Dean uses his outsider status against everyone else, they are bound to use it against him.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

25. The same way he

was able to vote No on the Iraq Resolution:

"I find it hard to believe that I'm the only major candidate running, who's in reasonably good shape in the polls, who voted No on the Iraq Resolution."
-- Howard Dean 6/23/2003