(NYT) Dean Calls Congressional Democrats "Cockroaches"

[DJcairo]

The same Congress he praised in '95 for its efforts to cut medicare. How does he think he is going to pass a prescription drug benefit without the help of Congress?

Dean Spares No Opponent as He Sprints Across Iowa
By JODI WILGOREN

Published: October 15, 2003
MONTROSE, Iowa, Oct. 14 — Howard Dean, who is increasingly giving his presidential candidacy an anti-Washington cast, cranked up his rhetoric on Tuesday, saying that if he won, members of Congress were "going to be scurrying for shelter, just like a giant flashlight on a bunch of cockroaches."

His jab at Capitol Hill, institutional home to four of Dr. Dean's five main rivals for the nomination, came in response to a question about how he would handle Congress and the entrenched Beltway bureaucracy. The questioner mentioned Republicans and Democrats alike, and Dr. Dean made no distinction.

http://www.nytimes.com/2003/10/15/politics/campaigns/15DEAN.html

[Khephra]

1. The same Congress he praised in '95???

You DO know that there's been elections and other votes since then?

:crazy:

I'll even say it too. Our congress is filled with cockroaches.

[Pez]

9. i guess since newt's gone he has to call them by another animal

he likes lizards, doesn't like bugs?

this is ridiculous. dean's libertarian~style rhetoric is just an advertisement ploy. he's not focusing on republicans, he's focusing on dividing democrats. sure there are people in washington who are holding up progressive legislation-- the repuke trifecta to be specific. does this hint at anarchy excite his supporters? i think it's base and meaningless. he promises a lot, but won't deliver. if elected, he'll be flip-flopping around in a sea of contempt that he created for years, all the while our country will become less secure and progress will be put on hold. he has nurtured the hostility and will have to crawl out of this hole instead of moving forward. way to go, hoho.

these kinds of substance-free, regressive attacks from dean not only turn me off but reinforce the fact that since he has no liberal platform he has to resort to middleschool lunchroom taunts.

[RogueTrooper]

2. I think you will find,

that he said that of all the members of Congress.

[DJcairo]

3. The Times said he made no disntinction between Dems and Repubs

Why is he bashing them one minute, and then saying he doesn't care about the "details" of a health care plan he just wants something that can pass. Well, WHO THE HELL IS GOING TO PASS IT????????/??

The Internet?

[MrPeepers]

22. Exactly.

Dean sure is having a hell of a good time bashing the Washington Insider Crowd. Congress has a tendency to hold grudges. Smooth. This is one of the things that most turns me off of Dean. Just flat out arrogance and blatant disrespect for the democratically elected congress that is working like hell to keep Bush at bay. Good job, Howard.

Peepers

[LuminousX]

40. Zell Miller... now what distinction should be made?

nt

[Rose Siding]

10. He didn't say "all".

He said "members of Congress".

From the article:

"Howard Dean, who is increasingly giving his presidential candidacy an anti-Washington cast, cranked up his rhetoric on Tuesday, saying that if he won, members of Congress were "going to be scurrying for shelter, just like a giant flashlight on a bunch of cockroaches."

It appears that the question asked was regarding "the entrenched Beltway bureaucracy". Doesn't the entrenched Beltway bureaucracy need to be sent scurrying or are we content with what we have now?

[Cha]

13. Yes it does...these posters just like to snatch on to any

little thing they think is negative about Dean and Run Run Run with it.

[MrPeepers]

26. Perhaps

because this IS negative about dean, and needs to be run with. How about those other posters who pretend none of it is a big deal? Calling Congress a Roach Motel is hardly a reasonable thing to say!

Peepers

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

51. "Hardly reasonable?"

What papers have you been reading? About 80% of each the House and the Senate deserve the label "cockroach." There's about 20 Senators and 100 Representatives that have been fairly decent. About 5 Senators and 60 Reps who have been excellent.

[MrPeepers]

58. How are they cockraoches?

What do you mean by "decent" and "excellent?" Do you mean that they agree with you? The Congress has been elected by the American People, to represent the American People. I think it's a bit rash to call them "cockroaches." I don't care if they're Democrats or Republicans, there are some good people on the Hill and they don't deserve that label. From John McCain to John Kerry, there are some hard-working, dedicated people up there who are trying to do what they feel is right. Sure, there are some cockroaches. But to label indiscriminately, to throw insults around like that, is uncalled for.

Peepers

[ModerateMiddle]

28. but dean provides sooo much material

to dis him with.

[Pez]

15. that's way too nuanced for the public

O8)

[DJcairo]

18. The Times says he made no distinction and neither did the questioner

"The questioner mentioned Republicans and Democrats alike, and Dr. Dean made no distinction".

[Rose Siding]

24. And what *did* the questioner mention?

"the entrenched Beltway bureaucracy"

It's hard to defend the status quo at this point. I'm for seeing the "the entrenched Beltway bureaucracy" scurry.

[killbotfactory]

4. He didn't call them cockroaches

He just said they'd be scurrying for shelter like them.

[ModerateMiddle]

8. If Dean can claim that Gep was

"comparing him to Gingrich" when Gep showed that Dean agreed with the Gingrich plan for Medicare, then this statement by Howard Dean can certainly be said to be calling all congresscritters "cockroaches".

He's getting more and more outrageous.

[NewYorkerfromMass]

11. I agree this kind of rhetoric is not helpful in the long run

it may get people riled up and buy some press but it is really damaging in the big picture and not leadership worthy.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

52. So you love the Congress?

Got ya. Count me out of that opinion. This is one of the worst Congresses in the last 30 years.

[MrPeepers]

70. It dosn't mean you're justified

in saying the whole damn thing is a bunch of Cockroaches.

Peepers

[MrPeepers]

71. It dosn't mean you're justified

in saying the whole damn thing is a bunch of Cockroaches.

Peepers

[Name removed]

12. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[BushGone04]

17. Please

You Dean supporters are the same people who were up in arms when Gephardt compared Dean to Gingrich by pointing out that they agreed on Medicare. If you'll recall my post right after that debate, I agreed with most Dean people that that was an unnecessary comment on Gephardt's part. Now, it would be terrific if you would accept that, just as Gephardt's mentioning that Dean and Gingrich had the same view on an issue was a comparison between the two, Dean's saying members of Congress would be scurrying like cockroaches is comparing them to cockroaches.

[killbotfactory]

46. ...

simile
n : a figure of speech that expresses a resemblance between things of different kinds (usually formed with `like' or `as')

Examples:

She was as brave as a lion.
He was as silly as a headless chook.
His face felt like sandpaper.
She addressed the children like a sergeant-major.
Congress will scurry around like cockroaches caught by a flashlight

What gephardt said was different.

[BushGone04]

73. I disagree

Clearly it was intended as a simile. Dean does not think congressional Democrats are cockroaches (although, judging from this board, a lot of his supporters do). So we can agree that Dean was not saying these congressional leaders are the same as cockraoches. Nor was Gephardt saying Dean is the same as Gingrich, he was simply pointing out a policy difference.

[eileen_d]

25. That's really, really sad.

He didn't call members of Congress cockroaches - he just compared them to cockroaches. BIG difference, right? :eyes: Talk about splitting hairs.

Any votes Dean gains from this could be canceled out by votes from people who think it makes him look like a man who does not work and play well with others.

Edit: removed unnecessary, if amusing, reference to "The Exterminator"

[killbotfactory]

33. You are spinning like a bat out of hell

Did I just call you a bat?

[eileen_d]

38. I know you are, but what am I?

;) Seriously, calling people cockroaches is calling people cockroaches. IMO you're the spinmeister on this thread.

This cockroach business doesn't make me not want to vote for Dean in 2004. But can't you admit it is a STUPID thing to say, or is your devotion that blind?

[killbotfactory]

44. Seriously, he didn't say they were cockroaches, though

simile
n : a figure of speech that expresses a resemblance between things of different kinds (usually formed with `like' or `as')

Examples:

She was as brave as a lion.
He was as silly as a headless chook.
His face felt like sandpaper.
She addressed the children like a sergeant-major.
Congress will scurry around like cockroaches caught by a flashlight

[eileen_d]

47. It's still splitting hairs.

From what I've seen of Dean supporters around here, if Kerry used a "simile" about Dean with cockroaches in it, the outrage would be deafening.

I would be glad to vote for Dean. And truthfully this "cockroach" statement, idiotic as it is, does not discourage me from voting for Dean. But I believe Dean makes mistakes, just like all of the other candidates do.

Some Dean supporters, on the other hand, think he can do no wrong. Dean could pee on their legs and they'd rejoice in the precipitation ("it's been such a long drought!" "this humidity is so refreshing!")

[Upfront]

66. Calls Um

like he see's um. lol

[Larkspur]

5. Calling Congress "cockroaches", do you think he had Tom Delay in mind?

The bug exterminator turned cockroach, love it!

I would call our Bush-cave-in Dems, jellyfish. Kucinich and his cohorts are at least willing to fight Bush, but they can't muster a lot of opposition due to Repuke stranglehold.

[robbedvoter]

55. As a model, maybe. He sees himself as the exterminator

(plus makes over the top, uncalled for disparaging remarks). Yeap, that's Delay, all right!

[Cha]

6. Good for Dean!

take that tom delay and you other sycophants.

[BushGone04]

7. Does Dean realize the presidency is not a dictatorship?

And that, in order to get legislation passed, you have to get Congress to pass it? And that, for Congress to go along with your ideas, it helps if they don't hate you? And that, for them not to hate you, it's best to avoid comparing them to cockroaches?

Really. I try to stay away from the Dean-bashing, but that just strikes me as a stupid, arrogant, belligerent thing to say.

[Pez]

14. he's setting it up so if elected he can be the victim

no matter what happens if he's elected he can just claim "the roaches won't let me!!!" :cry:

[MrPeepers]

20. Amen again.

[blm]

16. He won't turn a flashlight on his records as governor.

Why should we believe anything he says about a flashlight in DC?

This is the kind of rhetoric that Dean coopted from the internet just this past year. He never GOVERNED in Vt. as a populist. I can't believe that so many believe his words NOW as opposed to his ACTIONS throughout his career.

[MrPeepers]

21. Amen a final time.

[NewYorkerfromMass]

30. touche blm!

you write that yourself? send it to Kerry! Chris Heinz?....Hey Chris!

[blm]

36. Been saying it since February when I saw that worm dangling in the water

and too many fish jumping on that hook to be believed.

[w4rma]

37. Kerry won't open his Congressional records up, either.

Clark won't open his NED administration records up.
None of the Congressfolks will open their records up.

[blm]

49. Do you have a link to prove that?

.

[w4rma]

53. Why should I do your research for you? Of course he hasn't.

You show me where he has and I'll stop saying he hasn't and won't.

[blm]

63. YOU made the accusation. I didn't.

In fact, I have said that since the Nixon White House, Kerry has had his every move watched and catalogued by the CIA and FBI, and the efforts were doubled by GHWBush during the 80s when he was investigating BCCI and IranContra.

Kerry's records have been poured over by his enemies for 30 years.

[ModerateMiddle]

68. Has anyone asked?

What a silly assertion. Someone else made this same claim, that the Congresscritters have "sealed records" too. Bah.

Have you asked to see any of their records?

[DJcairo]

67. What?!Congressional records are public silly

Ever heard of a vote. (You wouldn't because you are a Dean lover)But, in case you didn't know. Votes are part of the public record. ASnd Kerry' has cast a lot of them in support of very important things. Environment, health care and gay right s to name a few.

[MrPeepers]

19. Amen.

Amen, brotha.

[uberotto]

23. I think that Dean realizes that in order to get anything passed...

by congress, You have to first become president. And the best way to become president is to portray youself as anti-washington as possible. And as for you assumption that "congress has to like you", I don't think that there are too many democrats in washington who like bush, but they all seem more than happy to give him whatever he wants.

My guess is that in a couple of weeks, you are going to hear other candidates making similar remarks.

[BushGone04]

29. Hmm

"They all seem more than happy to give whatever he wants?" Chickenshit.

It DOES help to have a Congress that you haven't personally attacked (somebody please argue that comparing them to cockroaches isn't a personal attack).

Becoming President is no good if you can't pass anything because you've alienated the rest of the government. Dean needs to understand this.

[ModerateMiddle]

31. Dems hate Bush

but Dean would NEED the Dems to pass anything, if they get a majority, which is still questionable. But Dean is dissing DEMS in Washington as fast as he's dissing REPs there.

Is he going to be a "uniter" like Bush? Instead of the world hating us, Congress is going to hate HIM!

[ModerateMiddle]

32. I don't think he does know this

He acts as if he and only he is capable of doing anything at all.

Pissant arrogant shit.

[indigo32]

41. No in reality he doesn't, if you looked closer you'd see that

although it takes a fair amount of arrogance for ANYBODY to think they should be prez...

[Nazgul35]

45. I would think that having actually been a chief executive...

would make him more qualified than a member of one branch of a legislative body....that's called experience....

It's easy to vote for legislation that you know is not going to get passed or you are in the minority so you vote doesnt matter...it's an entirely other matter to be the person responsible for holding the veto and initiating legislation...something the governor has done with exceptional skill....as the Kerry campaign illustrated so well over senior prescriptions.....

[blm]

50. a chief executive who governed as a compromising centrist

and now criticizes ANY Dem lawmaker who has worked through compromise.
Isn't that odd?

[Larkspur]

27. Dean is right about this infamous Dem Congressional Act

Specifically mentioning Mr. Gephardt's appearance with President Bush in the Rose Garden last fall in support of the Congressional resolution authorizing force in Iraq, Dr. Dean said, "He hung his own people out to dry."

That's exactly how I felt last year after seeing Gephardt and Lieberman posing with Bush after the IWR passed. Now that Iraq is in shambles and Americans are being killed or attacked on a daily basis, Gephardt, who remembers ancient political history, can't seem to remember his act of betrayal to the Dem base.

[dkf]

34. Wow. Look at all of you defending the status quo.

Well, I'm not standing for it.

I want change. Face it the Dems are just as bought as the Repubs and if Dean is going to make them scurry then I'm all for it.

We need to demand better of our party. Dean will show them the way to votes that are in the best interest of the country, not just the people who contribute to their campaigns.

Go Dean!

[eileen_d]

43. I thought the whole point of the Dean campaign was

that he would listen to his grassroots campaign contributors...?

Dean is going to make people "scurry" all right...

[Pez]

56. i'd be more comforable with this kind of rhetoric...

...if it actually came from someone who had a solid liberal record. dean isn't going to do squat except yell a lot. it's not the anger that annoys me, it's his flip-flops, inexperience and past cozying up to big business that bothers me. oh and the NRA rating, the pro-death penatly thing... the pile o' lies he forks over...

[valniel]

35. He has been shooting from the hip for a long time.

Eventually he will probably shoot himself in the foot!

[Feanorcurufinwe]

39. "I'm not going to start by attacking him." He then proceeded to...

Dr. Dean also took a slap at Gen. Wesley K. Clark, who is retired from the Army. Asked by a voter about General Clark's appeal, he began, "General Clark has not attacked me, and I'm not going to start by attacking him." He then proceeded to point out that the general had advised a Congressional candidate to support the resolution on Iraq and had praised the Bush administration at a Republican fund-raiser.
http://www.nytimes.com/2003/10/15/politics/campaigns/15DEAN.html

[no name no slogan]

42. Good way to get off on the good foot with Congress

Glad to see that Dean (IF he gets the nod and gets elected president) will be off to a "Carter-esque" or "Clinton-esque" start of his presidency.

Carter & Clinton both came in as cocky small-state governors who thought they could "handle" congress their way, like they handled their respective state houses. Both presidents' first two years in power were disasters for them and their parties, too.

Now THAT'S the way to win friends and influence people. :eyes:

[polpilot]

48. Certainly NOT a Bush-lite sort of statement!!!!!! Not 'Bush-like either!!

Dean '04...The New Democratic Leader of the NEW Democratic Party.

[LuminousX]

54. This is Hilarious

I'm trying to figure out what sort of reaction the anti-Dean people are expecting. Will Dean supporters suddenly abandon Dean over this?

No. What this is about is an attempt for the anti-Dean people to feel good about themselves but it will have no effect on the election. In general, the Congress doesn't have a good public opinion and with both houses controlled by Republicans, it is a nice safe target.

"Oh, but he made no distinction." As well he shouldn't. I'd take the Republican Chafee over the Democratic Miller anyday of the week.

[Egnever]

61. WTG Dean!

Still calling em like he sees em. I would pay to see Delay run for cover.

[killbotfactory]

62. You don't know anything!

There has never been harsh campaign rhetoric aimed at the beltway before Dean and this is totally shocking! Dean is going to alienate everybody on Earth. He also travelled back in time to kill Jesus.

[indigo32]

72. Bingo Bingo Bingo

This is standard fair. Sorry folks.

[Padraig18]

57. "The questioner mentioned Republicans and Democrats alike, and Dr. Dean ..

... made no distinction."

So why did you? :eyes:

[bread_and_roses]

59. The wholesale denigration

of representative government is a radical right ploy that does not serve either moderates or progressives. I do not like seeing Democrat candidates play that tune.

[JohnKleeb]

60. I dont like it either kenzee

Honestly I heard this comment and thought of Tony Montana, and no I dont think Dean is Tony Montana lol, I just saw Scarface recently and "you fucking cockroaches" or whatever I remembered but it appears Dean's biggest problem with the current congress was those who voted AYE on the IWR, yet Dennis Kucinich and others didnt vote for it, and there have been other ways these "cockroaches" have stood against Bush, they havent been the best but they have far from told Bush do whatever the fuck you want, that is the democrats, the republicans of course think that. So I think it was a bad thing to say. BTW I proudly support Dennis "Cockroach" Kucinich lol, aint gonna change my mind.

[dsc]

64. I take it you have never heard of similes

He said like a bunch of cockroaches. That is different.

[Octafish]

65. "I represent the Cockroach Wing of the Cockroach Party."

"I never said YOU were cockroaches.
I just COMPARED you to cockroaches."

So, Ho-Ho: Is you is or is you ain't a cockroach?

[killbotfactory]

77. La Cucaracha will be the new national anthem

[Octafish]

78. ¡Si, Compay! Didja ever hear about the biggest cockroach in Texas?

One summer I lived in Foat Wuhth and interned at a local bidness. After a particularly grueling Friday, I came home to my nice air-conditioned apartment to relax in front of my 2-inch screen television. The thing was so small, it came with a magnifier that fit over the front and enabled me to see the equivalent of a 3-inch screen. I kid you not.

After watching Black Adder on Texas PBS and whatever else was on, my crossed eyes noticed I was not alone. There, in the middle of the living room, squatted the biggest, meanest, nastiest cockroach I had ever laid eyes on. Its black compound eyes locked on my bloodshot pair. And it began to approach me.

Recoiling in horror, I almost dropped my tiny television and its link to the world of culcha. I didn't care. This was to be a battle royale to the finish. Man versus nature. It or me. Since only one of us would survive, I decided to bring in the heavy weaponry. My shoe.

I didn't want to, or I was unable to, take my eyes off the giant vermin. It stopped coming toward me and reared up on its hind legs. It seemed to put the top pair of its arms on what would be its hips if it had been a mammal and not an insect. It sort of cocked its giant cockroach head to one side and sneered at me. So I hit him with all the shoe leather I could muster.

The thing squished down into the carpet. I hoped I had flattened him flatter than flat. I lifted up the shoe. It was alive! Not only that, it was pissed. It jumped up and started to RUN toward me, zipping along with its front legs held out in attack mode. Bravely, I continued to clobber it with the shoe. But, each time, I'd lift up the heel and the so-and-so would get back up and start to attack. I was at the end of my rope, so rather than lose, I decided to make peace. And that's where we are today.

Here's us, now that we're friends...



We're like two peas in a pod.

¿Casi Kafkaesque, no?

[Pez]

83. eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeewwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww

at least it didn't advance strategy to aerial maneuvers; i hear tell some of them buggers down thar come with flight capabilites.

congratulations on winning the peace; although probably on the roach's terms. the (comparatively) teeny roaches in my nyc apartment will have nothing of the sort, unfortunately.

[diamondsoul]

69. You know, I'm really beginning to wonder about Dean and Gep.

The both of them are acting like jackasses.

People like to say "he calls'em like he sees'em" so here ya go, I "sees'em" as jackasses! I was disgusted with the Gephart campaign page smearing Dean with out of context quotes, and I said so. I was disgusted with the Gingrich remark at the debate, and I said so. Every time I think Dean handles a cheap shot well, he turns right around within a matter of a day or two and delivers one of his own.

Well you all can make excuses for him all day and night, but it all boils down to sleazy politics, and I'm sick to death of it. That's what the right does, I expect better out of my party members.

Yes, Dr. Dean, I'm "weepy and liberal" about more african-americans being locked up for nonviolent crimes than whites, and I'm even more "weepy and liberal" about more african-americans being executed than whites. I'm kinda funny about death and justice that way. It's called caring about others.

Yes, Dr. Dean, I agree we need to "get rid of all the Democrats and Republicans who have sat on prescription drug benefits" however you and I both know the public did not hear the qualifier in that statement, and we BOTH know that there is at least one Democrat who deserves better.

The same applies to making a statment that "nobody stood up to Bush" when the man who did just that is standing not four feet away from you and then denying you meant what you said. Not mentioning him by name among those who failed to stand up to Bush does not disqualify your use of the word "nobody". Guess what Dr. Dean? "Nobody" means NO BODY, and that's an aggregious lie.

Send members of Congress scurrying like cockroaches, huh, Dr. Dean? I hope you'll be following them. Your tactics of late have been just as reprehensible as anything those people have done or failed to do in Congress. And while Dean supporters here may make excuses for it, there are others I'm hearing who don't like this sleazy politics crap any more than I do. That's ok, though, you carry on, Doc. Keep it up until the whole party turns on you.

[democratreformed]

74. Did it ever occur to anyone...

that not everyone can be a leader? Maybe all any democrat currently in a leadership position needs is a "real" leader in the highest leadership position. Maybe with the right strong leadership, the current Democratic members of Congress, the Senate, and at the state levels, will really rise to the occasion and become all that you want them to be. The question is... who is the right leader?

[DrFunkenstein]

75. Kerry Has Never Accepted "Soft Money"

According to the National Journal - Composite Liberal Score's calculations, in 2002, Senator Kerry voted more liberal on economic, defense and foreign policy issues than 87 percent of the Senators.

http://www.vote-smart.org/issue_rating_category.php?can_id=S0421103&PHPSESSID=6ffe9242b4363ab589fb36f5bae97f66#Nat.+Journal

Look at Kerry's record - it's an open book (unlike Dean's). Are you telling me the guy who gets a 96.5% LIFETIME (18 years) rating from the League of Conservation Voters is comprable to a cockroach?

The sheer hypocrisy of the flashlight metaphor is astounding. Right up there with attacking people who were "misled" by Bush or considered rejecting matching funds.

[Padraig18]

76. Again, another nice content-free bash.

Must've been home sick with a cold the day the covered similes in 8th-grade English, huh? :wtf:

[paulk]

79. get real

The "simile" excuse is spin worthy of the Bush Administration. Why not just admit that Dean said something he shouldn't have. Is that so hard?

[Padraig18]

81. Out of the hundreds of stories

It's interesting that he would choose one where Dean used the word 'cockroaches', and then distort what he said: he said "Congress", *not* "DEMOCRATS in Congress.

I stand by my assessment.

[DrFunkenstein]

82. Jeez Louise, Is This Really The Dean People's Argument?

If Kerry said Dean is "not unlike a crusty toenail" in only one of hundreds of articles, do you think Dean people would have a legitimate case for mentioning it?

It says outright in the article that Dean pointedly refused to distinguish between Democrats and Republicans. Not "happened to" - he made a point of it.

[DrFunkenstein]

80. Content Free Bash By Dean? Agreed.

Dean is like a slimy booger sliding down in his rhetoric. Not that he is a slimy booger, just that his actions can be likened to one.

Zealotry is alive and well at DU.