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cosmicdot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-15-03 08:53 PM
Original message
Kucinich's rally speech in Madison, Wisconsin
Give 'em Hell Dennis!

http://madison.indymedia.org/usermedia/audio/2/14494_1.13.03.mp3

Mimi Kennedy 00:04 - 03:35
Dennis Kucinich 03:10 - 15:55
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-15-03 09:03 PM
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JohnKleeb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-15-03 09:10 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. ummm
Edited on Wed Oct-15-03 09:17 PM by JohnKleeb
1. Why not? Those troops are suffering over there. Those guys are around my age. He wants them to be safe, surely you want them home with their famlies right.
2. McGovern isnt that what they have said about your guy and I bet you got pissed too, and btw McGovern is still alive is fighting. You act like he cant fight back the right and only your guy can.
3. Hair? Youre looking at his hair and judging him on that. Thats pretty funny and pathenic, who gives a damn honestly.
I will really be laughing if you call him too short when youre guy is only an inch or so bigger than mine. We dont know who will win? and btw McGovern was a leftist you bet yourself but Nixon was a centrist. Amazing the reasons you have for him being unelectable. Please tell me, I bet his last name is unelectable as well. A lot of your reasons are unproven and bullshit stuff like McGovern II and his hair. Sorry to be confrontial but some of your reasons were silly, and I get mad at these cliches, besides I bet you dont like being told your guy is unelectable due to superficial reasons either. I normally dont respond like this, but I get annoyed.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-15-03 09:27 PM
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JohnKleeb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-15-03 09:35 PM
Response to Reply #5
8. Well its a cliche and I get sick of it
Well we cant let superficality get to us why should we, why does his hair and dress matter to you this isnt a fashion show. Well if thats the case, then even goes more and more with my thoughts why I could leave which I may not. Seriously if you believe in something you should support it.
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jonnyblitz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-15-03 10:02 PM
Response to Reply #5
16. "you have to be a superficial package."
interesting comment. Is that why you support Dean? I saw him at a rally in Boston and he looks waaay to short to be a president and also there is that goofy lower lip action when he talks...yup..only muscleman action heroe types like Arnold can win. :hi:
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-15-03 10:05 PM
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jonnyblitz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-15-03 10:17 PM
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19. and by using the criteria you stated
Dean doesnt have a chance because he is too short and makes dorky lower lip faces when he talks. Why is it ok to say Kucinich doesnt have what it takes in a superficial world of imagery but when I say that Dean doesnt really either it is an attack on you and/or Dean? Interesting reasoning I must say..

you assume I am not a Dean supporter too. I traveled almost 2 hours to see him speak.
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goodhue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-15-03 10:22 PM
Response to Reply #19
22. thank you
Thank you jonny!!! I try to refrain from saying negative things about other candidates; you provide a great service by stating the obvious. I find it constantly amazing that DK is trashed for allegedly looking goofy but the governor of Vermont is given a pass. Speaking of funny looking, how about the current president of the usa?
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-15-03 11:07 PM
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Desertrose Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-16-03 12:55 AM
Response to Reply #27
30. Personal grooming??! I was there & saw him up close and I can tell you...
Edited on Thu Oct-16-03 12:56 AM by Desertrose
he looked great!

His suit fit extremely well- I've heard he gets his suits where Kerry gets his and it certainly looks it. Quite a difference from when I saw him in June.
His shoes were totally shiny and his hair was combed/styled. I thought he looked very presidential and well turned out...this was on the way into the debates.

BTW....it was damn warm in PHX- mid90's...I was not the tidiest of folks there....but Dennis was very spiffy- I noted that he looked damn good.

Are you sure you were looking at the right candidate?? Seems like if one doesn't care for that person they tend to see things that are real. This has to be a first about personal grooming. The man was impeccably dressed! And to set the record straight-there was no dirty hair or wrinkled suit!
Good grief!

And as far as your post below...you were kidding about an apology, right?

Peace
DR


BTW- when I saw Dean, poor man looked a bit "warm" himself....

edit in subject line
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-16-03 06:40 AM
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Desertrose Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-16-03 12:22 PM
Response to Reply #35
47. Amazing.....
and of course you were in the front row no doubt and saw how "unkempt" he was from your close vantage point in the intimate seating of the Orpheum....

Why that is pretty amazing considering I saw him go in the Orpheum earlier looking very sharp and well groomed. Gosh...doesn't say much for CNN makeup, does it. They make the candidate look worse, eh?

Do you think that the fact he is not your candidate could have colored your opinion a wee bit against the man? We have already discussed our differing realities...guess this is just another instance of that...I suppose people will have to make up their own minds on the truth of this little exchange.....

Peace
DR
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cosmicdot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-15-03 09:20 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. buy a new suit?
I'm guessing you have never seen Dennis in person.

buy a new suit
LOL

Thank you for giving this thread a kick ... even if contained Faux News-like talking points.

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JohnKleeb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-15-03 09:24 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. heh yes
Seriously a lot of those points were ummmmm very ummmm :argh: Seriously McGovern, he was up against a more moderate republican plus Kucinich probably could beat Bush great. We dont know. I tell you what cosmic points like this are exactly why I am gonna do this, :argh:
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-15-03 09:29 PM
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JohnKleeb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-15-03 09:36 PM
Response to Reply #6
9. referring to someone's hair and clothing is something Faux would do
Remember their uproar over Al Gore's beard etc. You have never heard anyone else bring up his grooming, are you sure about that I see it.
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dweller Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-15-03 09:38 PM
Response to Reply #6
10. Yes, you've just
Edited on Wed Oct-15-03 10:11 PM by dweller
proved it.
for goddess sake, his suit is the epitome of unelectability.


dp
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-15-03 09:41 PM
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dweller Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-15-03 09:56 PM
Response to Reply #11
15. Yes, you are sorry and so are your talking points little pony
but an appearance only matters in the mirror. Face one, and then when you have given up the emporer's clothing, and his fable, try to put forth a fact about the candidate that his supporters cannot debate.

If you want to elect another brooks brothers bum, do it for the repug party.
and if you want to point fingers, again, get in front of a mirror.

if your point is so right, tell me, is your vest buttoned up to your throat?
after all, you are a salesman, right? Or is that a salesman for the Right?

dp
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-15-03 10:11 PM
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dweller Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-15-03 10:19 PM
Response to Reply #18
21. it really doesn't matter how many times you say it
it doesn't make it any more true.
you are not 'most people', just one.

his appearannce, like it or not, it's not what will put the x in front of his name.
his policies will.

you have a great hangup with appearance and again, let me point you to a mirror.

there is a person there you need to face. When you've overcome that, you'll be clear to look at what matters to me, and others like me.
otherwise, you are just fogging the mirror.

dp


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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-15-03 11:04 PM
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-15-03 11:30 PM
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-15-03 11:41 PM
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Desertrose Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-16-03 01:12 AM
Response to Reply #29
32. Ignore all reason?
Perhaps its time to look in the mirror?

.....and don't you mean ignore YOUR reasoning?

.......awaiting an apology? Uhhh.......I wouldn't hold my breath if I were you.......

DR
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-16-03 06:43 AM
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Desertrose Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-16-03 12:05 PM
Response to Reply #36
45. No..we don't agree....
....not even close.....nice attempt at twisting my words tho....


Peace
DR
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-15-03 10:35 PM
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Desertrose Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-16-03 01:09 AM
Response to Reply #11
31. I repeat...he is NOT lax in his personal habits!
Where in the world did you get this crazy idea?.....and why do you feel the need to bring up such pointlessness on this thread?....and why do YOU assume that he is not careful in his personal grooming? How the hell would you know ?? ASSuming it, I suppose?

I was there...Dennis was not sloppy or dirty! I'd love to know where you got that impression.....the man was dressed very well.

This man travels all over the country ...I don't honestly know how he does it...jeepers...some of the remarks made about Dennis and as those who know & support him , we are supposed to just ake it ?? I bet if someone would make a similar remarkabout Dean it wouldn't be tolerated.

I certainly hope I have disabused of this grooming fallacy you have creatively come up with....

Peace
DR
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jkg4peace Donating Member (86 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-16-03 03:49 AM
Response to Reply #31
33. Talk about a slob
I'm sorry, but I just have to get in on this one. Did you by chance see the pictures of Dean's office and kitchen in TIME magazine? Oh my God! I couldn't believe it! It looked worse than mine! And this guy is a zillionaire. I would at least have picked up a bit before I let the camera people in from TIME. There was literally trash piled up in the kitchen, and massive piles of messy papers stacked up all over the floor of his office.

And I saw Dennis in Phoenix, too. Even had my picture taken with him. He looked GREAT! Maybe most people haven't heard of him, but he is absolutely driving the platforms of all the Dems. Now Kerry and Edwards are going to vote "no" on the $87B, too. Go DENNIS!
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Desertrose Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-16-03 12:12 PM
Response to Reply #33
46. Thank you...I thought he looked quite "dapper"...
wouldn't have used that word previously...but he was lookin' mighty fine.

Thats funny about Dean's office...but really , has he even been there? I know how hard it is to keep a place clean with grown kids around...can you imagine with all the campaign workers there??

Still...I'da at least cleaned up the trash....guess he wanted everyone to know how hard he's working, eh?

Peace
DR
:hi: welcome to DU jkg4peace!
Did you come to the Wyndham for the post debate party? we had a blast! we even had Deanies & Kerry folk show up at our party...the band rocked...and so dod Dennis!!
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goodhue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-15-03 09:30 PM
Response to Reply #3
7. new suit
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MuseRider Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-15-03 09:48 PM
Response to Reply #7
13. Thanks for the links n/t
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MuseRider Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-15-03 09:46 PM
Response to Reply #1
12. Actually
Edited on Wed Oct-15-03 09:46 PM by MuseRider
Point one... have you read his policy? It might help.

Point two... Do you know what he was refering to when he spoke of the Goddess? I thought it was Howard Dean McGovern, at least that is what I have heard before. I don't buy that for either of them.

Point three... I think he looks just fine. Average American. I would wager that most of us here are not raving beauties or He Men. I have never seem him look shabby. By the way, did you perhaps notice the warm, caring look he gets in his eyes when he talks to people? I have not seen that with any of the others.

Please, he looks better than a lot of the presidents we have had if that is what you judge them by.

We would love to discuss policy. It remains to be seen if he is electable or not.

Edit to add, I think he is very electable.
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diamondsoul Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-15-03 09:51 PM
Response to Reply #1
14. Oh man I can't leave this alone!
1.Nobody who calls for an immediate pullout of troops from Iraq can win this thing. Sure, we shouldn't have gone, but now we have to persevere.

Until when? There aren't enough Americans left to even defend the US much less fight this war? Please.:eyes: We are in NO WAY obligated to "persevere". You sound like General Clark...by God, America can never admit it fucked up and get the hell out of places it doesn't belong...oh no, once we start we gotta finish, even if that means thousands of Americans and "enemies" dead. Yeah, even if that means MY GRANDCHILDREN SUFFER SO THE US NEVER LOSES A F&&%#$$##!@$%^#$%^# WAR!

Yes, friend this perseverance crap sends me right off the deep end. When I hear it I want to throw things. WTF?! It's ok to "follow through" on a f*cking INTERNATIONAL CRIME? Since when?! Keerist, I swear some ofthis is about the trivial little detail of the US military salute! In case anyone doesn't know it, the British salute is different from the US salute because England has previosuly lost official "wars". The US never has...but then we cheat and refuse to call it a war when we lose. Nooo, it's a "liberation effort" a "military action" anything BUT the truth...that we waged war and lost.

I'm furious and I'm not at all alone.

Point 2...This guy is a McGovern waiting to happen again, and the Democrats just won't do it. You can't help yourself by talking about 'goddesses' in your initial announcement speech.

WHY?! Because good Kuhwrischuns are the only ones allowed to refer to a deity in this country? This SECULAR SOCIETY. (note I refer to those who presume to be superior over all others Chirstian and non-Christian alike, not all Christian believers)

You got one thing right, people "won't do it". Not for any good reason though. I've yet to see a single rational reason NOT to back Kucinich. Ya got one? 'Cause this isn't it. Whatsamatter, son, nobody can respect other religions anymore and get elected? Yeah, ok, and with that thinking, slavery would still be happening today.

Point 3...Gotta try to look the part, Dennis. Use a comb and maybe buy a new suit. Emulate Dean's smart grooming, not Nader's shabby appearance.

Get stuffed. Sorry but this is a pathetic attempt to invent a reason to oppose the man you know and I know is right on all counts. WTF difference does it make if he looks like G-damned BARNEY the purple dinosaur if he does what he says he wants to do?! Yeah go on America, elect the guy who "looks the part".:eyes: :puke: Seems to me that's about ow Ahhhnold won Cali, so what you want a repeat?
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-15-03 10:19 PM
Response to Reply #14
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goodhue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-15-03 10:27 PM
Response to Reply #20
23. get a grip
Haven't you heard? Kucinich leads the way in opposing the $87 million appropriation for Iraq. As Edwards would say, NO BLANK CHECK. You're assessment is so yesterday. The only folks scared are the ones in the White House.

http://www.kucinich.us/statements.htm#100903

UN in, US out
Kucinich's Plan to Bring Our Troops Home

The war in Iraq is over and the occupation of Iraq has turned into a quagmire. The US troops have become the targets of criminals and terrorists who are flowing into Iraq for the chance to shoot Americans. The cost of the occupation keeps rising: The President has already asked for more than $150 billion to pay for it. And there is no end in sight. The UN is now in an impossible situation, where most of the members view the war and occupation of Iraq to be a US folly. Under these circumstances, the UN can’t help. The US is stuck, mostly alone, with a costly, unpopular and unending occupation of Iraq. If we stay the course, it will do damage to American security. Iraq was not and is not a threat to the US, yet the demands of an occupation will overstretch our armed forces. And the extended deployment of reserve forces make us vulnerable at home because the reserve call ups include large numbers of firemen, policemen and other first responders who are needed for the homeland defense mission.

People are asking, is there a way out? I believe there is. I am writing to share with you a plan that will get the UN in Iraq and the US out. This plan could bring the troops home by New Year’s day, it will cost much less than the President’s, and it will increase American security.

The President must go to the UN and announce the US intention to hand over all administrative and security responsibilities to the UN. The UN would help Iraqis move quickly toward self-determination.
The UN, not the US, will administer Iraq’s oil revenues. It will be necessary to renounce clearly and unequivocally any interest in controlling Iraq’s oil resources.
The UN will administer contracts to repair Iraq. War profiteering will no longer be practiced by the White House. It will be necessary to suspend all reconstruction contracts and close the US-led Coalition Provisional Authority, because of the suspicion caused by the sweetheart deals that the Administration has given to large American corporations. In its place, the UN would help Iraqis administer funds to employ Iraqis to repair the damage from the invasion.
Bring US troops home as UN peacekeeping troops rotate into Iraq: The goal is to bring all US troops home by the new year, but in any case, to bring them home as quickly and as safely as possible with a planned and orderly withdrawal.

As soon as practicable after this address, the UN Security Council would ratify a new resolution on Iraq that would deploy a multinational force under UN mandate to keep the peace in Iraq while the interim Iraqi government receives UN support and a new Iraqi government is elected. It is my hope that within one month, the first UN troops and support personnel will arrive in Iraq, and the first US troops will be sent home. UN peacekeeper troops and Iraqis who are commissioned as police and military will replace the US (at a rate of two UN peacekeepers for every three US troops). In place of the US-led Coalition Provisional Authority, the UN will open an office to provide administrative support to the Iraqi Governing Council, which will direct the repair to infrastructure damaged by US invasion in the immediate term. In two months, the UN will begin to conduct a census of the Iraqi population to lay groundwork for national elections. At the same time, new temporary rules for the election will be promulgated, guaranteeing universal suffrage on a one-person –one vote basis. During the transition period, a Memorandum of Understanding (MOU) between the American and UN force commanders for a turnover period will settle the question of who commands the troops. The MOU will specify who is to be in charge in case an incident happens during that period. These might be local agreements such as have been used before or they might be for the entire area of operations. By the end of month three, all US troops will have returned home.

In month four, a major milestone will be reached when Iraqi sovereignty is established for the first time. A nationwide election will take place to elect representatives to a Constitutional Convention. The Constitutional Convention will have two duties: 1) elect a temporary Prime Minister who appoints a cabinet to take over responsibility from the Iraqi Governing council, and 2) draft a national constitution. Accountability of this Prime Minister is achieved by virtue of the fact that he can be recalled by a majority of the Convention.

In one year, there will be nationwide elections pursuant to the new Constitution, which will install an elected government in Iraq.

The US owes a moral debt to the people of Iraq for the damage caused by the US invasion. The US will also owe a contribution to the UN to help Iraq make the transition to self-government. American taxpayers deserve that their contributions be handled in an accountable, transparent manner. However, Americans are not required to build a state-of-the-art infrastructure as the Administration is planning. The Administration is ordering for top shelf technology from US corporations for Iraq and paid for by US taxpayers. Sweetheart deals have been awarded with billions of dollars to top corporations and political contributors. That is precisely what corrupts the Administration’s reconstruction efforts today. Instead, Iraqis should be employed to repair Iraq, and US taxpayers should pay only for the damage caused by the US invasion, including compensation for its victims. US taxpayers should not be asked, however, to furnish for Iraq what we do not have here.

The war and occupation in Iraq have been costly in other ways too. One price the Administration has forced the US to pay is America’s moral authority in the world. The Administration launched an unprovoked attack on Iraq, and the premises of the war are proving to be false. This has cost our credibility and done serious harm to America’s standing in the world. After the attacks of 9-11, the world felt sympathy for us. But this war and the occupation have squandered that sympathy, replacing it with dangerous anti-American sentiment in most of the world’s countries. And, perhaps most costly of all, the US occupying force serves as a recruiting cause for terrorists and people who wish us ill.

All we can do now is to make a dramatic reversal of course: we must acknowledge that the continued US military presence in Iraq is counterproductive and destabilizing. We have a choice in front of us: either we change course, withdraw our troops and request that the UN move in, or we sink deeper into this occupation, with more US causalities, ever higher financial costs, and diminished security for Americans.

We need a real change. My plan will bring the troops home by the new year, transfer authority to the UN with provisions made toward a rapid transition to Iraqi sovereignty, and it will save billions over the Administration’s occupation. It will enable the US to think creatively about how the US will deal with threats that come not from established countries with conventional armies (our armed forces are more than adequate to that task), but rather threats that come from networks of terrorist and criminals, who use unconventional means to injure Americans. We must also apprehend the criminals who masterminded the 9-11 attacks on this country, a goal that is hindered by the occupation of Iraq. Lastly, it will also enable the US to redirect scarce resources to rebuild America.

Sincerely,
Dennis J. Kucinich
Member of Congress

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diamondsoul Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-15-03 10:28 PM
Response to Reply #20
24. No kidding. You obviously either didn't see the past debate
Edited on Wed Oct-15-03 10:31 PM by diamondsoul
or haven't followed up on Kucinich's Iraq exit plan. There is one, you know, and it doesn't involve leaving a power vaccuum in Iraq on day one. www.kucinich.us/issues

Go have a look. I know I can talk 'til I'm blue and it won't matter so go look for yourself. DR. Dean feels we should give Bush another blank check to pay off his buddies at Halliburton, etc. Kucinich doesn't. Instead he demands *you show us you'll support our troops and the money is yours, as long as we doubt you'll use it on our people, get f*cked*. I'm with Kucinich on it.

PS-*on edit* I'm cranky, but it isn't personal. I just flat don't like superficial arguments against my candidate, and particualrly when he's had more issue statements and clearly laid plans out there longer than anyone else in the race. He walked in with clearly laid issue statements, back in March of this year. That was it for me, I needed nothing more.
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Mairead Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-16-03 07:50 AM
Response to Reply #24
39. I have little doubt that this guy's address is
sub pontum.

Low post count, check.
Unsupported opinions put forward as Eternal Truth, check.
Keeps trying for a reaction, check.

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greatauntoftriplets Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-16-03 10:25 AM
Response to Reply #39
40. The posting style is very familiar also.
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diamondsoul Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-16-03 10:48 AM
Response to Reply #39
41. I think this one got to me because of Chicago.
Those of us waiting at the O'Hare Hilton were hearing the weather in Minneapolis was keeping his plane on the ground, but when Dennis called to deliver his speech via speaker-phone he mentioned heavy air traffic over O'Hare. Either way, I was concerned about him making it to St. Louis and actually getting some sleep Tuesday night!

The comment about sleeping in his suit...I just thought, "Yeah, and so what if he did?! That just tells me he cares more about us than his own needs and wants!". That's not to say I don't want him to take care of himself, but remarks like that are so sickeningly dismissive of the man's character that it makes me want to rip my hair out!

The war business...I guess it's pretty obvious I'm in a white hot rage over Iraq. We committed a crime in going in there and people want to "persevere" in it~~in other words exacerbate the crime with more crimes! And then just for kicks let's dump the cost onto the backs of our OWN grandchildren!AAARGH!:argh:

I'm losing some of my diplomacy I think. I've just had enough of seeing Dennis belittled and kicked around. Sooo these days I'm pulling out a little more of my sharper edges when I'm confronted with abject stupidity about him and total ignorance about his policies. Speaking of his policies, there was a great article posted on the Kucinich4President yahoo group this morning-

http://www.gristmagazine.com/maindish/kucinich101503.asp

I thought I'd share this with everyone because he really gets into his view of "sustainability" in this one. I loved it!
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MuseRider Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-16-03 11:41 AM
Response to Reply #41
42. Diamondsoul
That is a great article! I am sendng it out. Thanks. This guy is the real deal, that is the reason I support him.
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jkg4peace Donating Member (86 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-16-03 03:53 AM
Response to Reply #20
34. Get your facts straight
Dennis calls for the US to pull out and the UN to go in. Not leave it high and dry, but put some more competent, legitimate leadership in there who will better represent the interests of the region.
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LWolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-16-03 07:31 AM
Response to Reply #1
37. Not to state the obvious, but...
this topic has been discussed, dissected, and debated adnauseum here on DU and elsewhere. You are not exactly pointing out a new idea that we have been unaware of.

Points:

1. "Kucinich is unelectable" is an opinion. Not a fact. It should not be stated as such. It is an opinion that ignores the fact that he has been elected. Numerous times. In districts with plenty of republicans and swing democrats.

2. "Kucinich is unelectable" is also a campaign strategy. By supporters of specific opposing candidates, and by the status quo that resists change. They can't find any substance in the issues to to use against him, so it becomes unproveable and unsubstantiated things like "electability." If that doesn't work, they then attack physical appearance.

3. All democrats and progressives want to beat *. Some democrats put sincere "electability" concerns higher on their priority list than the issues. Some don't. Some want to beat him and put a candidate in office who will work for substantial change.

4. Kucinich supporters all over the country obviously don't agree with you. We would say to you:

The only thing that makes a candidate "unelectable" is not voting for him. If you believe that Dennis is the best choice, vote for him. If all who feel the same actually cast a vote for him, he will win.

You can stay stuck in the mud...or not. The choice is yours.

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revcarol Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-16-03 11:42 AM
Response to Reply #1
43. DK doesn't support IMMEDIATE withdrawal of troops from Iraq.
They would be gradually withdrawn as they are REPLACED by experienced trained UN peacekeeping troops.

Get your facts straight.
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genius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-16-03 11:44 AM
Response to Reply #1
44. Saving lives and saying "no" to Halliburton is unelectable?
I guess you prefer, Mr. Give Halliburton the $87 billion DEan. After the Phoenix debate, Dean can no longer say he is an anti-war or anti-occupation candidate.
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LWolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-16-03 07:37 AM
Response to Original message
38. I'm listening to it now.
Thank you so much for posting this, cosmicdot. Mimi Kennedy talking about why she supports Dennis; all those reasons we've chosen him. We hear that response over and over and over...it seems to be a universal response among his supporters. What a fabulous intro!



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dweller Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-16-03 11:05 PM
Response to Original message
48. god this is funny
Edited on Thu Oct-16-03 11:07 PM by dweller
to look at now, good luck trying to follow the fool(s) on the thread.

my apologies to anyone that i may have irritated with a short sighted response to _deleted_
after all , one of my responses was del. too, it was late, heheh.

but the cockroaches do seem to be coming in with the cold.
i'll have to use the {ignore} more often i guess.

thanks, cosmicdot for the original thread, i can't d/l mp3, but will look for the text.
peace,
dp
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JohnKleeb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-16-03 11:19 PM
Response to Reply #48
49. You know I got angry you know
We've heard this shit so many times, its shoved down our throats, and etc, we are gonna get mad.
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dweller Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-16-03 11:35 PM
Response to Reply #49
50. you are right Kleeb and we've got to just
let go, and rise above it.
i'll try, you do a superb job of trying to quell the discord.

i put _deleted_ on ignore, a first for me. I don't usually have to do that. But then went back and turned off the ignore, and laughed when i saw she was gone.

so i'll just ignore sooner in my mind, and try not to get caught up in it next time.

peace.
dp
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