Dean's friends at the NRA have an enemies list

[DemDogs]

Sign up to be added the list .

Currently on the list: the PTA, the AMA, the US Conference of Mayors, the Children's Defense Fund, the NAACP, the St. Louis Cardinals, Ann Landers (I guess they haven't heard), Oprah Winfrey, Andy Williams, The Temptations, Frank Rich, Meg Ryan, Jerry Seinfeld, Tara Lipinski, the YWCA, Keyshawn Johnson, Matt Damon, Walter Cronkite, Julia Child, Dr. Joyce Brothers, the NEA, the ABA, Maya Angelou, United Methodist Church, the US Catholic Conference, the Unitarian Church, the United Church of Christ, Jews, Lutherans, Mennonites, Episcopalians, Trauma Surgeons, Pediatricians, Nurses, etc.

Of course, if you are Dean supporter, you might want to go to the NRA site instead (wink)

[sfecap]

1. Gosh, could this be a Dean bashing thread?

I can't believe it.

How many of these do you start a day?

[sandnsea]

26. Gee, ya' think???

This one is kind of funny, just a little, don't you think? But it is annoying, I know. Shame shame on Demdogs.

[pandatimothy]

34. Of course it is.

He cant stand the fact that DEAN ROCKS!!!!!!!!!!

[kimchi]

2. Excellent!

Sending it to all my friends.

[ShaneGR]

3. SNORE, wake me up when you're finished

I'm not even a Dean supporter, but this thread is dumb.

[DemDogs]

19. Previous post: "Gun vote could go to Dean"

Posted by a Dean supporter. You want it both ways: he is the perfect candidate to win the gun-sters and yet he's not the NRA's guy. Which way do you want it? Oh, I know: just like Dean, you want it both ways.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

4. Gun-Toting Liberals for Kerry

I hate to break it to the right wing, but the NRA anti-gun control hysteria is starting to wear thin even here in Montana.

[liberalnurse]

5. Your association of Dean with the

NRA "blacklist" is misleading. The NRA appreciates Dean's stance on gun laws, as they can varry per state....and community....

Dean is a Constitutional democrat......

You insinuate that Dean is Pro NRA...like *bush....not true. That's bashing.....

that's cheap like O"Riley and Hannity....

shame in you.

[DemDogs]

12. Shame on me?

How many of the Dean supporters would not have their stance on guns given an A by the NRA? Most is my guess. Rob Reiner, for example, is on the blacklist. But you are not fazed by the fact that Dean is BY FAR the "best" Democratic candidate ever in the eyes of the NRA. Shame on me? No. We agree on one thing: there ought to be plenty of shame here.

[Speck Tater]

18. As a very liberal liberal,

I have no problem with letting each state determine what kind of gun laws are appropriate for it's citizens. And for the record, I'm sure that I am NOT the world's only liberal Democratic member of the NRA.

[DemDogs]

20. I hope you'll complain to the NRA about the blacklist

I wouldn't think that you would find that a very liberal liberal thing for an organization you belong to to do.

[BlackVelvet]

23. I'm liberal on almost every issue except

gun laws.

If all hell breaks lose in this country I don't want the rightwingers to be the only ones with guns.

[liberalnurse]

24. You make no sense......

What are you talking about?

[liberalnurse]

25. I completely support Dean's approach on the gun ownership.

So, what's the problem with the NRA's approval of Dean? I actually like my 38.

[dsc]

30. That is flat out false

The NRA prefers Bush and you well know it.

[ThorsteinVeblen]

6. We have all the FEDERAL gun laws we need.

We don't need anymore.

Keeping gun control in the hands of the States allows the PEOPLE to address the problems they find in their communities.

The problems the PEOPLE face in Vermont are much different than the PEOPLE face in Los Angeles.

Let the PEOPLE decide the best way to address their own problems.

PERIOD.

(or do you agree with FEDERAL euthanasia and drug laws)

[Feanorcurufinwe]

7. So you are in favor of letting the assault weapons ban expire?

Or should our candidates stand for keeping military-style weapons off our streets?

Sen. John Kerry, Massachusetts Democrat and presidential aspirant, was among the first to do so, dedicating part of his official candidacy-announcement speech Tuesday to gun control.
"Courage means standing up for gun safety, not retreating from the issue out of political fear or trying to have it both ways," Mr. Kerry said.

<snip>

"John Kerry has a strong voting record. He has always been a good friend to this issue," Mr. Horwitz said. "If you compare that to Howard Dean, John Kerry's answers are strong. There's less hedging."
http://www.washtimes.com/national/20030906-110347-9894r.htm

[dajabr]

9. Wednesday, May 14, 2003

DEAN CRITICIZES GOP PLANS TO LET ASSAULT WEAPONS BAN EXPIRE
In the wake of an announcement by Congressional Republicans that they plan to allow the federal ban on assault weapons to expire, Governor Howard Dean today called on President Bush to "keep his word" and fight to reauthorize the ban on deadly semi-automatic weapons. Dean says there is no legitimate sporting purpose for assault weapons.

"Sportsmen know they don't need an Uzi to hunt deer," said Dean. "These weapons are not favored by sportsmen. They are favored by criminals and terrorists, and we need to keep them off our streets."

Bush has stated his support for reauthorizing the 1994 Assault Weapons Ban, which is due to expire in September. Dean urged the President to put pressure on members of his party in Congress. "The true measure of leadership is standing up to your friends when they are wrong," said Dean. "President Bush should use the power of the presidency to urge his fellow Republicans to do the right thing, protect American lives, and extend the assault weapons ban."

http://blog.deanforamerica.com/archives/000244.html

[Feanorcurufinwe]

16. So Dean panders on this issue too?

Saying one thing one day, (states should set gun control laws) a different thing the next, (reauthorize the federal AWB) depending on his audience...

[dajabr]

17. No...

he's been consistent on saying that both should be done. It's been on his "Issues" page for as long as I can remember (10+ months?)

[Feanorcurufinwe]

21. Consistent in saying both... lol

[dajabr]

22. Yes...

That usually happens when an "And" is included between two segments of thought. I find that Democrats are highly adept at this skill.

And don't forget the rest of my sentence you left out - "saying both SHOULD BE DONE."

[peaceandjustice]

47. Dean's position has consistently been

that current gun laws, including the AWB should remain and new gun control laws should be left to each state's discretion.

[DemDogs]

13. Guns are portable

Or as Dennis would say, "Guns are portable. Hello."

[dajabr]

15. Yes, as are drugs...

How is that war on drugs going anyway?

[dajabr]

8. What IS taking so long with Dean's NRA endorsement anyway?

DUH...

[Feanorcurufinwe]

10. Exactly. The NRA will endorse Bush, not Bush-Lite

"A" rating from the NRA or not, Dean will never be able to out-Republican the Republicans.

[dajabr]

14. Don't think "out-repuging" anyone was his purpose...

This was:

Land Acquisition Over 470,000 acres of land conserved through Dean’s leadership as Governor nearly 8% of Vermont. Properties acquired and added to the state’s holdings include important natural areas, significant waterfalls and gorges, critical wildlife habitat areas, key inholdings, access areas, recreation lands and important forestland parcels.

http://www.deanforamerica.com/site/PageServer?pagename=policy_record_environment

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

50. Trying to "out Repug" would consist of supporting:

IWR
Patriot Act
Homeland Security...

[JohnKleeb]

11. Wayne LaPierre is still alive

I dont like the NRA one bit and their way of doing shit.

[polpilot]

27. George Washington & Ben Franklin support Dean's position.

Dean '04... America's New Leader.

[genius]

29. BF and GW would oppose Dean's attitude towards criminal defendants

There was a reason they demanded the Sixth Amendment, an amendment Dean treats with disgust and tries to subvert.

[genius]

28. And do any of these groups or people think they will do better under

Dean? The good news about Bush is we know he's the bad guy and that makes it easier to oppose him. Dean will do the same thing as Bush or worse (given that he is more right-wing on some issues) but the gullible members of Democratic Party won't see it coming. I wish there was a curiosity pill we could give these people.

[dsc]

31. Put up or shut up pal

Name at least two issues on which Dean is more right wing than Bush. Include links backing you up. Put up or shut up.

[DemDogs]

32. Dean is running for the Democratic nomination

The nomination to be the banner carrier of a party long dedicated to the end of gun violence. If the NRA likes him, maybe you can say it's not his fault, except that to get the NRA endorsement, you have to complete a form for NRA setting your views out. Most Democrats deplore the tactics of the NRA (this blacklist being a great example) and will not seek or accept the NRA's endorsement. Dean was not among those, and his supporters here continue to tout his ranking with the NRA as a reason why the rest of us should support him.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

33. I've got guns up the wazoo and I hate the NRA

It is a myth that they represent the majority of gun owners in the U.S.

[DemDogs]

36. I agree -- but they don't try to woo the NRA

In order to get an NRA endorsement and support in an election like Dean did, he had to reach out to the NRA, at least by completing their questionnaire or attending their interview. You can't (or shouldn't) seek their endorsement if you deplore their tactics. If he loves guns, fine, say so. But if he is repelled by their tactics, he should also say so, and he has not.

[Township75]

35. Name one Democrat who was offered the NRA's endorsement

and then refused it.

[DemDogs]

37. A candidate is not "offered" the endorsement, they have to seek it

Just like every advocacy group in the country, if a candidate wants the NRA endorsement, they have to fill out a questionnaire and/or have an interview. Most Democrats don't even try to get the endorsement because they don't respect the endorser. Dean did. Live with it.

[Township75]

40. Good job - you're discrediting your own posts...

From your previous post:

Most Democrats deplore the tactics of the NRA (this blacklist being a great example) and will not seek <b>or accept <b>the NRA's endorsement.

From the last post:
if a candidate wants the NRA endorsement, they have to fill out a questionnaire and/or have an interview. Most Democrats don't even try to get the endorsement because they don't respect the endorser.

So you still can't name a Dem candidate that was offered the NRA's endorsement and refused it. What candidate is going to fill out hte NRA's questionnaire if they are not interested in the endorsement and then reject it?

Face it, which ever candidate you support is going to lose to Dean. It's fine with me that Dean is a supporter of gun rights, in fact, that is major reason he is my #1 candidate.

And take a look at the polls, Dean is leading everywhere, even at DU. So it appears you are in the minority when it comes to being upset about the Dean and the NRA...guess you're going to have to live with it when he becomes the nominee.

[DemDogs]

41. Dean NOT leading everywhere

I have not "discredited" my posts (by which I assume you mean contradicted myself) -- you asked which Dems turned down the NRA endorsement and I responded that most Democrats -- unlike Dean -- don't seek the endorsement that they would then turn down, they don't fill out the questionnaire that Dean filled out or attend the interview. Dean did. Dean wanted the endorsement of the NRA so much that he was willing to disregard the NRA's history and tactics. A number of candidates support the second amendment, only one seeks the imprimateur of the NRA.

And if Dean wins the nomination, you can kiss those "gun states" away -- they are not voting with the Democrats. We lose the South, the Southwest, the Midwest. By the way, these are the places where, in states where more than one candidate is on the air, Dean is NOT leading and will never lead. All the money in your Daddy's bank account cannot buy him Oklahoma or South Carolina. Count on it.

[Township75]

42. Let's try it again.

From your earlier post:

Most Democrats deplore the tactics of the NRA (this blacklist being a great example) and will not seek or accept the NRA's endorsement.

Now, no arguement that most Dems wont seek the endorsement, but I think you made up the fact that they will not accept the nomination. The NRA is only going to endorse a pro gun candidate, so why don't you tell me what you base that statement on, specifically, name a dem candidate that was offered the endorsement and refused it.

And we won't be kissing those gun states away either. There are gun states like ID, Alaska, and Montana that were never in play, but PA, MI and FL will become locks. What states did Gore win that you think we will lose if Dean is our nom? I don't think any will switch, but some that went to Bush will go Blue...for example, pro gun WV and NH, and I bet FL will not even be close with Dean there.

Dean is the most appealing candidate, and he can get votes outside of our party, partly on his gun positions.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

43. As a Montana gun owner

all I can say is that your analysis is based on false premises.

[Township75]

44. Point them out.

.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

45. Well I thought

it would have been fairly obvious that I meant whatever premises led you to the conclusion that Montana is a 'gun state' that was 'never in play'.

[no name no slogan]

46. Here's one

The budget deficit. He's a self-proclaimed "deficit hawk". Dean has even claimed he's "to the right of" the Republicans on this issue.

He says he wants to balance the budget by cutting programs and not raising taxes. He also says he wants to leave the Pentagon budget alone, too.

Now, taking these two things into consideration, how would Dean balance the budget, if he's going to cut federal programs, except for "defense" spending?

Very simple: Dean is willing to balance the Federal budget by cutting social spending programs that assist the most needy in our country.

Sounds kinda right-wing, doesn't it? :eyes:

[stickdog]

38. And Dean (NT)

[JohnKleeb]

39. apparently these people are jackasses

and while I disagree with Dean on gun laws, I find this a pity thing to do. Also looks like the NRA are dumbasses.

Herbert Block - Cartoonist (Herblock as he was called has since passed on)

[polpilot]

48. NRA attempts to climb aboard the Dean train. As always the odds on

winner for the preisidency will be courted by all factions. The NRA, along with all astute political observers, have realized for over a year that Dean would most likely win the demo nom and that there was no way the Iraqi Sheperd Bombing, outside Hitler admirers, would be deemed a success.

Just another organization that wants to win Dean's attention.

Dean '04...America's Leader

[gully]

49. Ironic that many on the list are actually Dean campaign contributors...

:eyes:

[Feanorcurufinwe]

51. Maybe they should educate themselves about who they are supporting

and whether they really agree with him or not.

[gully]

52. So your saying their also uneducated? I would venture to guess

Martin Sheen is educated.

As are Dean's other supporters. Unlike Clark, Dean's comprehensive stands on the issues are in writing for all to see.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

53. No, I'm saying what I said, not the words you put in my mouth.

[DemDogs]

54. NRA endorsement

Someone asked about the NRA questionnaire that in the basis for their endorsements. I knew they, like most advocacy groups, have them, but, no surprise, it is hard to find a reference to them. Here are some references (one is not too flattering to Clinton):

FROM THE LIBERTARIAN WEB SITE:
NRA & Matching funds
I would like to comment on several letters in the November edition of LP News.
Howard Wilson's letter about NRA endorsement of Libertarians states: "The Libertarians endorsed may not win, but if they are the only ones who return or answer the questionnaire, they will be endorsed."
I presume that he means answer favorably. However, it is difficult for a Libertarian to answer a questionnaire that has only been sent to Democrats and Republicans, as was done in New Hampshire, in 1994. In that year, I ran for Representative in New Hampshire, and was not sent a questionnaire by the NRA, nor were any other Libertarian candidates. Also, when I called NRA headquarters seeking information and left a message on voice mail, my call was not returned.
William J. Pearsall
Richmond, New Hampshire
<http://www.lp.org/lpn/9712-letters.html>

FROM AN AUGUST 2000 ARTICLE IN THE WASHINGTON POST:
NRA endorsements were electoral gold for Democrat and Republican alike. Congressman Al Gore was firmly anti-gun control. So was that young Arkansas governor Bill Clinton. In 1982, the NRA told Clinton that it didn't like his answers on an NRA candidate questionnaire. Clinton called and changed his answers. "I am in support of the NRA position on gun control," he wrote to the association.
<http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/style/postmagazine/A17275-2000Aug1.html>