Shock of the Old (piece on Howard Dean)

[Larkspur]

Win or lose, Howard Dean has become town crier for a liberalism that long predates FDR.
http://www.prospect.org/print/V14/10/franke-ruta-g.html
Edited to add web url

The smallest crowd of Howard Dean's Sleepless Summer Tour in late August consisted of about 450 people. They'd gathered at the airport outside Boise, Idaho, on a splash of tarmac surrounded by sparkling, cloudless sky. There, where the crumpled, arid desert gave way to the pine-covered Boise Foothills, amid the mingled scents of jet fuel and dust, they waited for former Gov. Howard Dean (D-Vt.) to arrive.
When he did, Dean supporter Delmar Stone approached the microphone and introduced the presidential hopeful to the crowd by way of a jaw-dropping comparison. "The last time I was this excited about someone who could change the world was when I heard about Jesus!" Stone said. "Oh, come on!" exclaimed the man standing next to me. It was such an over-the-top thing to say, seeming to reflect more than anything what a neglected bunch the Idaho Democrats are. Few national Democratic candidates come to stump in Boise, and, when they do, the beleaguered partisans get a little overexcited.

But Stone, I learned as I listened to Dean supporters around the country, was not so unusual after all. In Austin, Texas, Melissa Sternberg told me she'd gotten so excited after she caught Dean on the Charlie Rose Show in June that she'd become "born-again Dean." On popular political blogs like Daily Kos, readers routinely discuss Dean supporters' "messianic" zeal. Backers of retired Gen. Wesley Clark accuse the Deanies of promoting a "Church of Dean." In each case, the choice of words is instructive, and probably not accidental.

The mainstream media suggest that Dean has roused the Democratic Party's base through his opposition to the Iraq War and straight-ahead criticisms of President Bush. But comments like the ones above suggest that Dean has tapped into something much deeper -- and older in American political history -- than mere Bush hatred. Irrespective of whether he ends up winning the Democratic nomination, Dean has already accomplished something valuable for liberalism: He has reconnected it to a strain of religiously inflected American history it typically ignores.
<SNIP>
I say Dean is a New England populist or political evangelical in the same spirit as the 19th Great Awakening was for religious New England evangelicals. His formal announcment speech harks back to that era but translates it into a political movement.

[alexwcovington]

1. We're living on the edge

of a second Progressive era. It will mean living through this second gilded age. If we are lucky it will end next year.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

2. "fiercest fights were always with the state's insurgent left"

yet

" Instead of fearing the legacy of northeastern liberalism, he has embraced it"

embraced it how? By mouthing platitudes? His record does not indicate an embrace of liberalism.

[LuminousX]

3. Not meaning to attack the source

but I've seen a lot of anti-Dean stuff come from CounterPunch. I also came across this piece comparing Dean with Clinton and Carter - not in a good way, as the author seems to believe all three are worthless:

What also seemed strange was a grinning man in a parka handing out double-sided photocopies extolling the virtues of Democratic Presidential would-be Howard Dean. Dean is a cynical piece of marketing, a small state governor dressed up as an electable radical. In the modern era, we've seen that motif in the guises of Bill Clinton and Jimmy Carter, both better soundbites than Chief Executives. Fittingly, the only memorable thing about the Dean flyer was the already played-out line, "I'm from the Democratic wing of the Democratic Party."
Reference Link - counterpunch.org

I guess I'm not sure how to take it. It is the same negative stuff I keep hearing about Dean, so no really new revelations.

[sandnsea]

4. Forget counterpunch

Find some issues YOU care about and then go see what Dean did in Vermont. And see what the other candidates did. You really shouldn't be against Dean just because other people are. You might be right, we might be wrong.

[LuminousX]

11. The issues I care about are already protected

Woman's right to choose
Balanced budgets
An internationally friendly gov't
An environmentally friendly gov't
A strong defense

Those core five issues are guaranteed no matter which of the Dems get elected. Some more than others. So I'm looking for the 'inspiration' one of these candidates can give me.

[dsc]

16. I realize many of you believe that Dean supporters have no clue

but I did research Dean on issues about which I care. He made civil unions a reality when not one other Governor did. His health insurance plan, while not perfect, works and solves a major problem. His campaign is well run which shows me he can win which is the most important issue. I could go on and have but won't now.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

6. Clinton a 'better soundbite than Chief Executive'?

I sure don't agree with that. I think Carter doesn't get the credit he deserves either. The media has been pushing the Reagan campaigns view of him on us since 1980 and I'm still not buying it.

But I do think the Clinton comparison is apt in some ways. It's hard not to admire Clinton for all the good he did for our country and party. But it is also easy to see how he got the 'Slick Willie' moniker. What I do hope for if Dean gets the nod is that he uses his political skills to further our causes at least as much as Clinton did.

[Larkspur]

5. His record in Vermont does show that Dean is a social liberal

but he's also a fiscal conservative. Dean fought "tax and spend" liberals and now is fighting "borrow and spend" neo-cons.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

7. Which weighs heavier in the balance?

His social liberalism, or his fiscal conservatism? Sometimes in the zeal to balance budgets, social programs can suffer. Sometimes in the well-intentioned desire to have the government help people, budgets can become bloated and out of control. So it is that balancing act that we use to judge a leader.

[hedda_foil]

8. It appears clear that no-one so far except the original poster and me

have actually READ the fucking article! It's quite an interesting and very unusual thesis and has nothing to do with anything that any of you are trying to bash Dean with.

I suggest you read it before commenting. Then comment on the article, please. Is that too much to ask?

[Feanorcurufinwe]

9. I read it.

Unusual thesis? Perhaps.

But I definately find:
"fiercest fights were always with the state's insurgent left"

incongruous with:

" Instead of fearing the legacy of northeastern liberalism, he has embraced it"

I don't see how Dean has 'embraced the legacy of liberalism'. His record does not seem to jibe with that statement.

[Duder]

10. Good find

He has built not just a candidacy but a movement, and he's done it by expanding liberalism's vocabulary, giving it fresh historical material from which to draw. It may or may not make him president. But it's what makes him important.

[gully]

12. Proud member of "The Church of Dean" here...

"It sounds hokey, and unoriginal, and like exactly what every politician says every electoral season. Yet over the past six months, these tropes have worked a kind of magic on potential voters in Iowa and New Hampshire, as well as donors across the country, who poured close to $15 million into Dean's coffers in the last quarter. One astute observer has credited Dean's appeal to the doctor's grasp of psychology and the contemporary rhetoric of self-empowerment that laces many of his speeches. But Dean's grasp of the American political psyche is firmer than that: Dean's bet is that somewhere -- buried in some back corner, under layers of Oprah and American Pie, Curb Your Enthusiasm and Eminem and the latest Field Poll from California -- there's a little bit of Thomas Paine in each of us."

Amazing article thanks. I always say, no matter what happens the "Dean Presidency" Howard Dean has forever changed politics.

[paulk]

13. fascinating article

The author makes an interesting distinction between "60's liberalism" and Dean's more old fashioned, I guess, "liberalism". The author says Dean has reconnected liberalism "to a strain of religiously inflected American history". This helps me to understand the zeal displayed by so many of Dean's supporters. It also helps me to understand why his campaign just never did anything for me. I could never quite put my finger on it - I liked his opposition to the war, I liked his position papers, I liked his attacks on Bush, but the over the top fervor of his following left me cold. And when I saw him on MTP, then later in the debates, I really couldn't understand. The "don't get all weepy and liberal " remark really, really, really turned me off.

But I don't make political decisions based solely on my personal feelings toward a candidate - so I investigated his positions more closely - and what I found made me even more uneasy. I think his position on guns is a right wing position and I disagree vehemently with it. I find his position on the middle class tax break incomprehensible - his stubborn intransigence in the face of what is clearly a poor political move makes me wonder what his real motives are - playing to his audience or getting elected. And, finally, when I look at his record in Vermont, I find it too Conservative for my taste.

I guess I'm just a "60's liberal".

[gully]

14. Well, if I may....

You said "I think his position on guns is a right wing position and I disagree vehemently with it."

I can understand that personally. You musn't be a Clark supporter then as he and Dean agree, and as you know, they are both the current front runners.

And "I find his position on the middle class tax break incomprehensible "

Dean maintains that the middleclass never actually got a tax cut. Why? Because our property taxes went up and the States are burdening us with other taxes to make up for it. In other words, you got a sham. For example I got a whopping $400 tax credit, but my property taxes increased even more (to fund the scam.) In addition, we now owe $1000 plus interest on the national debt. So, tell me how the tax cut benefited me? It hasn't. I'll take the Clinton tax code any day thanks! And, that is the tax system that Dean wants to return to.

You went on to say - "his stubborn intransigence in the face of what is clearly a poor political move makes me wonder what his real motives are - playing to his audience or getting elected."

I have a hard time figuring out how saying he's gonna repeal the Bush tax cut is 'playing to the audience' or helping him get elected? In fact, many are comparing him to Mondale and saying he'll never get elected for telling the truth. I have faith that Dean can educate the voters on this issue however.

You asked about his 'motive.' His motive is to be honest about the state of our Government. As Dean says "Somebody has got to tell the American people the truth." The refusal to pander a.k.a. lie to the American public on the tax issue, is one example that lends itself to his honesty. Reagan swore he wouldn't raise taxes and got elected. Remember 'read my lips' well guess what??? He raised taxes. Guess what else? Those people telling you they wont, are gonna do the same damn thing.

"And, finally, when I look at his record in Vermont, I find it too Conservative for my taste."

Many in vermont would disagree with you, but your entitled to your opinion.

[paulk]

15. ok

You are correct, I'm not a Clark supporter.

I don't necessarily disagree with Dean's position ON the tax cut. I
do think that a middle class cut, even a payroll deduction holiday, would be a good thing to stimulate the economy. Even Clinton did this back in the early nineties. I was opposed to this in 2000, but I think the economic situation has changed enough to warrant it. I'm actually against the child tax credit - but there are plenty of people who got it who would be very angry if it were taken away. It's a poor political move that will hurt in a general election. Dean WILL get hammered as raising taxes over this.

Dean won't be able to sell the $400. tax credit/property tax/national debt argument in a general election. The Bush "Dean Raised Taxes" soundbite will drown out any nuanced argument Dean could make. Dean is a smart enough politician to know this - which makes me think he's holding to this position for the sake of his faithful - he's playing to his audience knowing full well such a position will hurt him in a general election. If he does get the nomination I fully expect him to drop his objections like a hot potato.

As for Dean's conservatism, I know Vermonters who would disagree with
YOU! Ultimately, it's subjective. We all must look at the record and make up our own minds.

[gully]

17. I agree it's subjective, but Dean's audience would be fine with the Kerry

tax plan to be honest. Kerry says the middle class should keep their portion of the tax cut. I'd 'buy' that if I hadn't been educated. However, Dean says we have to make tough choices and someone has to be honest about it. We can't promise to do 'all these wonderful things' with out a way to pay for it.

I respect him for that.

[LuminousX]

19. The question is...

Can we afford to keep the tax cut as is, even for the middle class?

I'm not going to say yea or nay on it, but it is something I worry about. Tonight, I saw Kerry say he was a fiscal conservative. Does that mesh with his plans?

I honestly believe a middle class tax cut in 1998 would have been a good thing, but until we get growth back in business, I am concerned anything less than a full repeal of Bush's tax cuts is going to be harmful in the long run.

[dsc]

18. Clinton did not cut middle class taxes

he did campaign on doing so but he didn't which cost us dearly.

[paulk]

21. he raised the earned income tax credit

for people making less than 27k. You're right about middle class - he campaigned on it, but then backed down.

I would support a targeted tax cut now - it puts money back into the economy, helps state and city govt. with sales tax, which is where they're hurting .

[dsc]

20. an interesting take

They do have one fairly large inaccuracy in the article and that is on civil unions. Dean does favor requiring states to recognize gay couples in some equivalent fashion to their straight couples.

I have to say that we could do far worse than going back to a tradition that had virutally every good idea the nation had between the 1800's and 1930. The tradition they are saying he harkins back to gave us the abolition of slavery, the bill of rights, the progressive era labor and governmental reforms. We could sure do worse.