Is Kerry Brutus and Dean Mark Antony?

[DrFunkenstein]

Just an idle thought I had, and it may or may not work out ultimately. But I thought it was an interesting comparison, not in terms of the actual plot of Julius Caesar, but their styles/characters.

I wonder if Dean supporters and Kerry supporters break along the lines of people who like Mark Antony's emotional style over Brutus's more classic senatorial style. I always thought of Brutus as one of the great Shakespearean heroes along the lines of Hamlet and Macbeth, and Mark Antony was a demagogue defending a future tyrant. But Shakespeare being Shakespeare, there are many ways to see the characters, and I'm sure that many people find Mark Antony more compelling (especially when it's Marlon Brando).

Bush is obviously Caesar (minus the charisma), but I wouldn't exactly think Dean would be slipping the dogs of war on his behalf.;-)

Let me know what you think.

Note: This is not some sort of twisted bash. I'm just wondering how people end up dividing along the Brutus/Mark Antony lines. And considering the play is just about unavoidable in high school, I'm assuming most people have read it.

[sandnsea]

1. The "Relevant" Era

That's when I went to high school. I got to read Airport and make poetry pillows and write short stories. Sorry, no comparisons from me!

[pruner]

2. twisted bash?

from you? never.

:eyes:

[DrFunkenstein]

3. I Specifically Said "This"

Not that I don't regularly present twisted bashes of your candidate.

I don't say anything I can't back up. But nice of you to take a friendly thread down that road.

[pruner]

4. LOL

this is what you call a friendly thread?

[eileen_d]

6. Well, an unfriendly thread looks like this

"Is Kerry a liar, or just delusional?"

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

5. Other way around.

Et tu, Brute?

[DrFunkenstein]

15. LOL (n/t)

[polpilot]

7. Dean is The New Democratic Leader of The NEW Democratic Party.

Kerry is the long term politico.

The Roman Era is past.

Dean '04...

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

8. "Bush-lite" or "Hoplite."

:shrug:

[polpilot]

16. Ummmmmm. Hop-lite?

No. Bush-lite.

[sandnsea]

9. What NEW party?

Tell me about that. What's so NEW about Dean's platform?

[eileen_d]

10. It's new because in 1992

it wouldn't have attracted any Democrats.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

12. Definately.

Thesedays, Democrats tend to support policies like Homeland Security, the Patriot Act and war resolutions.

My, how times have changed.

[eileen_d]

13. Well, touche!

;)

[JohnKleeb]

14. Yes and interestingly enough my candiate voted against all 3

Oh I forgot hes unelectable ;). Take no offense RiF just letting you know, that Kucinich stood up against those.

[sandnsea]

28. And Howard thinks they're dandy

So, again, what new Democratic Party are we talking about?

[polpilot]

17. It's the new NOT Bush-Lite Party. No cockroaches allowed!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Dean '04...The New Democratic leader of The NEW Democratic Party. (See above)

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

18. Eek!

"I'll vote for anything B*sh proposes."

[eileen_d]

21. Thanks - I didn't get that catchphrase the first 1,700 times

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

23. Kinda grows on ya tho', doesn't it?

Unless you say it 1701 times, that is.

[sandnsea]

29. Dean is the #1 cockroach

Other than the civil union bill, what's he done so different than your basic Republican Congressman?

[displacedtexan]

11. check this out, and it's still october

Organization--State
(Back to Top)

Professional Firefighters of Massachusetts


Organizations--National
(Back to Top)

International Association of Fire Fighters


Organizations--State
(Back to Top)

Chicago Teamsters, Local 705


Individuals--Corporate
(Back to Top)

Kenny 'Babyface' Edmunds, Music Producer

Mark Gorenberg, San Francisco Venture Capitalist

Irwin Jacobs, Co-founder/CEO of Qualcomm, San Diego, California

Quincy Jones, Musician and Record Producer

Nancy Morgan, Managing Director of JP Morgan Chase & Company

Richard Ziman, Los Angeles Real Estate Developer


Individuals--National
(Back to Top)

Aida Alvarez, Former Administrator, United States Small Business Administration

Michael E. Capuano, United States Representative (D-MA)

Henry Cisneros, Former Secretary of Housing and Urban Development

Max Cleland, Former United States Senator (D-GA)

Bill Delahunt, United States Representative (D-MA)

Diane Feinstein, United States Senator (D-CA)

Harold Ford, Junior, United States Representative (D-TN)

Barney Frank, United States Representative (D-MA)

Gary Hart, Former United States Senator

Dennis Hopper, Actor

Claudia Kennedy, Lieutenant General United States General

Edward 'Ted' Kennedy, United States Senator (D-MA)

Robert F. Kennedy, Jr., Environmentalist

Stephen F. Lynch, United State Representative (D-MA)

Edward J. Markey, United States Representative (D-MA)

Jim McGovern, United States Representative (D-MA)

Martin T. Meehan, United States Representative (D-MA)

Gregory Meeks, United States Representative (D-NY)

Juanita Millender-McDonald, United States Representative (D-CA)

Richard E. Neal, United States Representative (D-MA)

John W. Olver, United States Representative (D-MA)

Bill Pascrell, United States Representative (D-NJ)

Louise Slaughter, United States Representative (D-NY)

Adam Smith, United States Representative (D-WA)

Aaron Sorkin, 'West Wing' Television Series Creator

John F. Tierney, United States Representative (D-MA)

David Wilhelm, Former Clinton Campaign Manager, Former Democratic National Committee Chair


Individuals--State
(Back to Top)

Don Bailey, President, National Postal Mail Handlers, Local 333

Scott Bales, Former Arizona Solicitor General

Clifton Below, New Hampshire State Senator

Steve Benjamin, Attorney in Columbia, South Carolina; Former candidate for South Carolina Attorney General

Roger Blietz, Retail, Wholesale, and Department Store Union, Local 110

Rick Blindt, President International Association of Fire Fighters, Local 607

Sherri Breckenridge, American Federation of State, County, and Municipal Employees, Local 2840

Raymer Brogan, Business Agent, Plumbers and Pipefitters, Local 125

Alton Brown, American Federation of State, Local, and Municipal Employees, Local 2989

Kurt Brunner, Political Director, Heartland Regional Council of Carpenters

Neil Brunner, Retired Steelworker

Michael Cadigan, Member Albuquerque (New Mexico) City Council

Martha Fuller Clark, Former New Hampshire State Representative

Burt Cohen, New Hampshire State Senator for 7 Terms, Candidate for United States Senate

Tracy Conner, Union Representative, American Federation of State, County, and Municipal Employees, Council 61

Donna Crum, Retired, American Federation of State, County, and Municipal Employees, Local 299

Jeff Danielson, Past President, International Association of Fire Fighters, Local 1366

Charles 'Chip' Davis, Plumbers and Pipefitters, Local 125

Jim Decker, Business Manager, Carpenters Local 410

Diane D. Denish, New Mexico Lieutenant Governor

Ray Dochterman, President, Cedar Rapids and Iowa City Building Trades

Randy Donnelly, President, American Federation of Government Employees, Local 219

Iris Estabrook, New Hampshire State Senator

C. Virginia Fields, Manhattan Borough President, New York

Donna Fink, Iowa State Education Association

Eileen Foley, New Hampshire Senate Democratic Leader

Bob Forbes, Chair of Consumer Affairs, United Auto Workers, Local 893

Linda Foster, Clinton (Iowa) Education Association

Michael Fry, International Brotherhood of Electrical Workers, Local 13

Guy Geinzer, Sheet Metal Workers, Local 263

Mark Green, 2001 New York City Mayoral Candidate

Eric Griego, Member Albuquerque (New Mexico) City Council

James Haddox, International Brotherhood of Electrical Workers, Local 347

Keith Hartman, President, Carpenters & Joiners, Local 2704

Mike Hessenius, Member, Plumber and Pipefitters Local, 125

Kevin Horner, Shift Steward, International Association of Fire Fighters, Local 16

Jerry Johnstone, Retired Railroad Worker

Sylvia Larsen, New Hampshire State Senator

Russ Lett, Amalgamated Transit Union, Local 323

Ben Lujan, Speaker of the New Mexico House

Marilyn Lyons, Clinton (Iowa) Education Association

Joseph Maestas, Espanola (New Mexico) City Councilor

Brian Martin, Business Agent, Plumbers and Pipefitters, Local 125

John Matthews Jr., South Carolina State Senator

Joe Mckeown, United Auto Workers, Local 281

Dennis Mehiel, Former Candidate for New York State Lieutenant Governor

Terry Metz, Editor of the Rank and File Newsletter, United Auto Workers, Local 893

Paul Niemann, Teamsters, Local 238

Ed O'Leary, Retired, Mail Carrier

Gerald Ott, Retired, National Staff Union (Iowa State Education Association)

Tim Pefferman, United Auto Workers, Local 893

Braulio Pereyra, Vice President, United Food and Commercial Workers

Laurel Phipps, Retired, United Auto Workers, Local 893

Gina Pippert, Chair, United Auto Workers, Local 10

Steve Price, Business Manager, Plumbers and Pipefitters, Local 125

Tom Reisdorf, Past President, National Association of Letter Carriers, Branch 257

Paul Robitaille, Coos County (New Hampshire) Democratic Chair

Alex Sanders, Former College of Charleston president, Appeals Court judge, Former U.S. Senate candidate from South Carolina

Wayne Sawtelle, President, International Association of Fire Fighters, Local 16

Lynn Schenk, Chief of Staff to Governor Gray Davis

Steven Schroeder, Retail, Wholesale, and Department Store Union, Local 263

Bill Shaheen, Attorney, Former U.S. Attorney and Judge; State Chair for Carter 1976, Gore 2000

Jeanne Shaheen, Former Governor of New Hampshire

Justin Shields, President, Hawkeye Labor Council and Past President Retail, Wholesale, and Department Store Union, Local 110

Lee Thielmann, Member, Plumbers and Pipefitters

Robert Timmerman, Union Representative, Carpenters Local 4

John Tuttle, American Federation of State, County, and Municipal Employees, Council 61

Antonio Villaraigosa, Los Angeles City Councilman

Roger Wendt, Iowa State House, Retired, Iowa State Education Association

Frank Wiley, Retired, Glass Molders, Pottery, Plastics, and Allied Workers

Troy Wolff, American Federation of State, County, and Municipal Employees, Local 3013

Chuck Wredt, American Postal Workers Union, Local 11

Tom Zehme, Shop Steward, Retail, Wholesale, and Department Store Union, Local 110

[polpilot]

19. Yeah, that's a lot of people?? Uhhh. Yeah? O.K. point (?) made....

Dean '04...The New Democratic leader of The NEW Democratic Party

[eileen_d]

22. Are you trying to say that Dean is the New Democratic Leader

of The NEW Democratic Party? Because it's not coming across.

[polpilot]

24. Keep repeating your post. It'll sink in!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Dean '04...The New Democratic leader of The NEW Democratic Party.

[DrFunkenstein]

20. I Know You're Not Referring To The Line Dean Lifted

"We should be proud: Not since the age of the Romans have one people achieved such preeminence.

But we are not Romans; we do not seek an empire. We are Americans, trustees of a vision and a heritage that commit us to the values of democracy and the universal cause of human rights. So while we can be proud, we must be purposeful and mindful of our principles: And we must be patient - aware that there is no such thing as the end of history." - John Kerry 1/23/03

http://www.johnkerry.com/news/speeches/spc_2003_0123.html

"America is not Rome. We do not dream of empire. We dream of liberty for all." -Howard Dean 6/25/03

http://www.deanforutah.com/national.html

[polpilot]

25. Funky, you shouldn't post that sort of gibberish. It makes Kerry appear

---------------(fill in the blank)

"We are not romans we are great... we bomb sheperds and kill the flock with hugh bombs.. and size matters...see how tall i am...i kite fly.. windsurf and ride motor bikes ...i'm cool i married money but i
didn't know she had $$$$...i was in love...i love america...i hate wars especially the wars i vote for. vote for me..i was confused...

[GreenArrow]

26. Actually...

Kerry is Rosenkrantz and Dean is Guildenstern.

[Upfront]

27. Yawn

[Feanorcurufinwe]

30. I just want to see Julius Caesar's bloody body lying on the Senate steps

[Octafish]

31. Who picked up the mantle of the Brothers Gracchi?

No one, not even their enemies could lift their weight. Marus? No. Sullus. No. The two later opponents seem mere crooks, abusing power and leading Rome into the spiritual darkness of despotic empire.

In our time, besides Ted Kennedy, who has picked up the mantle of the Kennedy Brothers? Perhaps Sen. Kerry can undo the repeating of history. I believe he can and must.

http://www.encyclopedia.com/html/S/Sulla-L1u.asp