Dean is imploding! LOL!

[sfecap]

Yep, he sure is...just look at the latest Zogby numbers posted here.

Maybe Kerry ought to start "imploding" in NH like Dean is. LOL!

[Demobrat]

1. Imploding? Wow. And all this time

I thought he was just fizzling! Or is that sizzling?

[wtmusic]

2. It's depressing to watch cornered Kerry supporters

If Dean falls by the wayside and I start posting like they are:

*here is gun*

*here is trigger*

*thanks for your help*

[redqueen]

5. Isn't the original message...

pro-Dean?

:shrug:

[wtmusic]

7. yes rq, I'm agreeing!

[redqueen]

8. D'OH! n/t

:dunce:

[Old and In the Way]

3. You don't mind if I discount your opinion , do you? nt

[AWD]

4. But...but...but...

He's too liberal!
No, wait...he's too conservative!

He's Dukakis!
No wait...he's Gingrich!

He's finished!
No wait...he'll be finished in July!
No wait...he'll be finished in August!
No wait...he'll be finished in September!
No wait...he'll be finished in October!
No wait...he'll be finished in November!

Face it, people...he's the next President of the United States!

[Loyal]

47. No

I have no doubt that he'll probably win the nomination, but Kerry would make a much better GE opponent against Bush.

[Demobrat]

6. Guess ole Tucker blew it again.

I wonder if anybody will bake him a cake this time.

[Sean Reynolds]

9. I think Dean will peak in say, January of 2005?

;-)

[killbotfactory]

10. He's peaking too soon

Again

[jmw25]

11. Edwards is moving up

new poll shows edwards is now at third in new hampshire! go edwards!

[jeremiah fpoa]

32. Edwards

Go Edwards - well on his way to slowly deconstructing the other candidates campaigns.

[Name removed]

12. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Padraig18]

14. Be careful what you wish for.

The vote you cast in 2004 may be your last.

[Bertrand]

16. Bookmark Worthy?

possibly.

[bowens43]

19. You're kidding right?

[NewYorkerfromMass]

29. I sure as fuck hope so

that is the most shameful thing I have seen on DU. ever.

[ThorsteinVeblen]

31. Not Shameful, Shamless

I don't fucking care anymore. If the Democratic Party is not going to grow some goddman balls, come up with some ideas, figure out what they believe in, and LEAD, they are going to go down. Period. I vow to enable and speed up this process.

America is so over. What was left of a 19th-century, liberal, democratic, revolutionary, republic based on the best ideas of the enlightenment is now gone. We are Rome before the fall with theocracy mixed in. Embrace it.

[Bertrand]

13. Gloating over a poll in NH

way to sell your candidate to the people.

[killbotfactory]

15. And what a poll it is!

Dean's on fire!

[Bertrand]

18. It's a great poll for Dean

but the fact that we have people here gloating over it and rubbing it in peoples faces show that they have no char.....oh wait, that sort of banal remark is considered a "personal attack" by the censorship elite here.

[killbotfactory]

20. Rubbing it in?

It's just a harmless response to the suggestion that Dean's campaign is imploding.

[sfecap]

22. But there was no gloating when the meme was...

..."Dean is imploding!", was there?

Face it...Dean will be the nominee. (If he doesn't implode....)

[Bertrand]

24. No, that is gloating too

as for the second comment, you have zero proof to substantiate your claim except circumstantial evidence, so how about we progress beyond the "my daddy can beat up your daddy" level of debate, ok?

[sfecap]

27. Proof?

LOL

Bookmark this ...then come back after the convention.

[Bertrand]

34. Seriously, how do i cope with this

sfecap obviously isnt in the business of trying to be rational, yet when i point that out it is considered a personal attack. The sterilization of these boards is absurd.

[sfecap]

38. I'm not rational?

Thanks.

Let's see...the anti Dean crowd has been blathering about his "implosion" for about six months now...who is rational?

Listen, attack me all you like. That doesn't change the facts.

[Bertrand]

41. Re: I'm not rational

Let's see...the anti Dean crowd has been blathering about his "implosion" for about six months now...who is rational?

The conversation wasnt about the "anti-dean" crowd but about the claims you made to which i responded.

Listen, attack me all you like. That doesn't change the facts.

A disagreement is an attack. If you say that you disagree with me, it is because we dont hold the same opinion. Why is that? Maybe it is because you think i dont have enough information, which would mean you think im ignorant. Maybe you think that im purpousfully ignoring your points and presenting counterarguments that are missing the point, which would mean you think im being irrational and (to use the word of the day) duplicitous. All conversation is an attack on another person. That is the flaw with these rules. They stifle conversation yet dont do anything about the increasing libeling of people around here.

[paulk]

43. how do you cope with this?

Use the "ignore" function. It's a lifesaver.



ps. demo live 3.0 - pretty cool

[AWD]

36. Poor guy

Need some water to wash down those sour grapes?

By the way, calling the mods the "censorship elite"....nice touch. You're sure to show 'em who's boss now.

[Bertrand]

37. AWD

Do you even know what "Sour Grapes" means? Provide for me specifically as to how the post you responded to indicates that i fall within that lable, which incidentally is a personal attack under the (horrible) rules.

By the way, calling the mods the "censorship elite"....nice touch. You're sure to show 'em who's boss now.

Wow. You are actually trying to belittle another person with juvenile sarcasm. It takes nothing short of a masochist to try to engage in conversation with people like you.

[LuminousX]

17. Every group of supporters gloat when a good poll comes out

so step off the high horse

[Bertrand]

21. Do i need to bring up a certain bridge from a certain borough?

besides, you validated your opinion with a gross generalization.

That said, if being on a "high horse" means condemning those that gloat over a Poll, then so be it. It shows a lack of rational thought by those that are so beholden to a candidate that they would rub positive news for one into the faces of another person, both of which are supposedly for the same goal.

[LuminousX]

23. How long have you been here?

That is the nature of this. When Kerry got Gary Hart's endorsement, that was all the rage for awhile. In fact all someone had to do to win an argument with me was say, "Yeah, but Gary Hart supports Kerry." That was a quick and easy way to shut me up. I was left making bland statements regarding Gary Hart not being the ONLY foreign policy expert with skills in terrorism, of course, none of those other experts are stepping forth to endorse any of the other candidates and the fact he is the only one I can name just goes to demonstrate what a coup that was for Kerry.

When your guy is up, you gotta gloat, because tomorrow he is going to be down.

[Bertrand]

25. I know it is the nature

of people, but that doesnt equate to it being "right" Im not playing the moral puritan card since i've gloated in the past, but i recognize that it isnt the best thing for me to express to others.

[blm]

26. How many threads does the Zogby poll need? Or did you mean

to post this to a thread that was already started?

[Name removed]

28. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[jmw25]

30. Bad feeling about a year from now....

I think I'm feeling sick to my stomach. There's no way that an anti-war candidate will be able to defeat Bush. If Dean gets the nomination, count on 4 more years of W. Dean's success has a lot to do with the 4-5 other candidates splitting the other Democratic votes. I know what Dean supporters will say..."Look at the poll numbers! Dean has higher numbers than the other candidates COMBINED!" Well, good for you, but it isn't good for America. It's time the rest of us Democrats start to rally around one other Democrat, such as Edwards or Kerry, who can actually win some of the undecided votes.

[w13rd0]

33. Funny...

...most of the information I've seen, when people who are marginally or very familiar with the candidates think of Dean, anti-war isn't what immediately leaps to mind. Maybe that's because Dean isn't "anti-war", he's anti-"Bush war", against "pre-emptive policy" and unilateralism. But that's ok, you keep pushing that notion, it'll only make you look misinformed as the campaign continues...

[NewYorkerfromMass]

35. funny how "anti-war" is the first association with Dean's name

good luck disassociating the rest of America from that notion.

[Larkspur]

39. There's not wrong with being anti-stupid war

which is what Bush's war is.

[SahaleArm]

40. Wait till the general election.

Then he'll be for Kerry's position.

[Larkspur]

42. You haven't been listening to Dean

He has said repeatedly that he would send out troops to war to protect America but he would always tell the American people the truth. Dean won't send US troops on a fool's errand war, like Bush did.

And Dean has said that he would send our troops to alleviate humanitarian crises, like the one in Liberia.

Dean has been pragmatic about how he would use our troops and our resources for war.

Those Dem Reps and senators on intelligence committees knew that Bush had no evidence to back up his war claims. Why didn't Kerry listen to them? Remember, the House Dems voted 123-81 to oppose the War Resolution and that was before the senate vote. Why didn't Kerry pay attention to those Dems?

[SahaleArm]

44. Except Dean's running on the platform...

that all Democrat's but himself would have gone to war had they been President. That's called being a demagogue, and something he needs to clarify.

[Larkspur]

45. He's right. He would not have gone to war under the circumstances

Bush presented.

His so called "flip flop" statements were really hypothetical statements he made when asked a question regarding a hypothetical situation.

Kerry's so called anti-war statements preceding his pro-war vote on the Iraq War Resolution is called hypocrisy becase the IWR NEVER FORCED Bush to return to Congress and prove his case if he could not get UN support. IWR required Bush to go to the UN but Bush treated the UN like he treated Congress -- inconveniences that he tried to dupe. Bush successfully conned Congress, but the UN delegates, much wiser to the blatant con game Bush was playing, were not impressed and therefore, refused to support Bush's war.

[SahaleArm]

46. If you truely believe...

that any of the other Democratic hopefuls, if elected President, would have gone to war in Iraq then you are completely delusional. Blaming Kerry for not forcing reauthorization is one thing but distorting reality is completely different. Are you claiming that all the candidates, save Dean, are members of PNAC?

[killbotfactory]

48. I dunno, Lieberman seemed gung-ho about it.

The other, I think, just didn't want to confront Bush on the issue since his poll numbers were so high at the time, and didn't think they could defend publicly opposing the war if any WMD's were found.

[SahaleArm]

49. As much as I despise...

Lieberman's family values platform I'm not convinced he would go in without real proof. He may be pro-Israel but would he have been controlled by the neo-cons? And would he have drummed up support with african uranium?

[no name no slogan]

51. I think that's generalizing Dean's position too much

Didn't Dean say that he supported previous American "interventions", like Grenada and Panama, but was opposed to This Gulf War? I'm fairly certain I've heard him say this before.

This is not meant as a criticism, but I think you're wrong that "anti-war" isn't the first thing your average person thinks about when they hear Howard Dean. He may have started his campaign around healthcare issues (of which he's very strong on, IMHO) but I also believe he's used his anti-Bush War position to help his standing, as well.

:)

[PassingFair]

50. Why do you feel so strongly that an "anti-war" candidate...

can't win the election. Dean is much more than "anti-war" , in fact, his anti-war stance was just the icing on the cake as far as I was concerned.

Are you "Pro-War"? "Pro-THIS War?" Just curious...

[NewYorkerfromMass]

52. Dean has marketed himself as the "anti-war" candidate for awhile

(if not outright making the claim) he has basked in the "glory" of allegedly being the only sensible person on the planet who would have spared us of Bush's war.
Dean ingenuously 'positioned' himself as having a clear, unique alternative to the Iraq situation.
He used the anti-war movement to promote himself and now he wants to very deftly disassociate himself from it.
It's not what he said or actually believed, it's now a matter of dishonest campaigning wherein he opportunistically uses the issue to differentiate himself when he's in fact not really different from Kerry.

[PassingFair]

53. OK, Kreskin...

But what color underwear is he wearing? Glad you know what Dean "actually believed". He's different from Kerry, though, I don't tend to fall asleep when Dean speaks...