Is Zogby push polling for Dean in NH?

[Skwmom]

Somebody pointed this out on another site and I think they raise a very valid concern.

The following question was asked "prior" to asking the person to vote for a democratic party nominee:

Q. Should the Democratic party nominate someone who is a lifelong Democrat, or would Democrats be wise to select someone who is a recent convert to their way of thinking? http://zogby.com/news/ReadNews.dbm?ID=750

The poster’s view was this amounts to push polling and completely, I mean completely discredits these results.

I agree. This question is obviously included to discredit Clark and sway the results. The use of the word “wise.” In addition, they insinuate that Clark just decided to think a certain way (pro-affirmative action etc.) which is a lie. As a military officer he could not be a partisan hack since he had to work for both democratic and republican administrations. He put his country first. Too bad some of these “lifelong” democrats can’t see fit to do the same.

[Sean Reynolds]

1. That isn't a push poll question toward DEAN - it's against Clark.

The rest have been lifelong (political career) so why is it *just* a Dean push poll and not the rest?

[KittyWampus]

4. Two Good Points!

Yes, I think that Zogby may have negatively influenced results in regards to Clark

No, I don't think that the 'push-poll' moved people necessarily towards Dean

Interesting though about that one question... how come they don't just ask "who would you vote for"

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

6. Because American politics is SHIT.

Remove the money. Federally fund elections.

Limit the time frame to a couple of months.

Demand free and comparable national airtime for all who qualify for federal funds(x amount of signatures, depending on the race)

[KittyWampus]

7. Ah, The HOLY GRAIL... Federally Funded Elections

but only godless commies would suggest such a thing :evilgrin:

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

14. Busted.

:(

[RetroLounge]

2. Nope, not a push poll for Dean

but nice try...

There are 8 candidates with lifelong service to Democrats.

One other is a johnny-come-lately.

So I guess Zogby is push polling for 8 candidates at the detriment of your boy?

Boo fricken hoo...

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

3. Nope.

Dean, Dean, Dean.

[LuminousX]

5. That doesn't meet the legal definition of a push poll

so no.

[KittyWampus]

8. What's The Legal Definition

I'm just trying to make conversation here :)

[LuminousX]

13. One legal definition

As defined by Maine.

Reference Link
1. Push poll defined. For purposes of this section, "push poll" means any paid telephone survey or series of telephone surveys that are similar in nature that reference a candidate or group of candidates other than in a basic preference question, and when:
1. Push poll defined.

A. A list or directory is used, exclusively or in part, to select respondents belonging to a particular subset or combination of subsets of the population, based on demographic or political characteristics such as race, sex, age, ethnicity, party affiliation or like characteristics; <2001, c. 416, §1 (new).>

B. The survey fails to make demographic inquiries on factors such as age, household income or status as a likely voter sufficient to allow for the tabulation of results based on a relevant subset of the population consistent with standard polling industry practices; <2001, c. 416, §1 (new).>

C. The pollster or polling organization does not collect or tabulate survey results; <2001, c. 416, §1 (new).>

D. The survey prefaces a question regarding support for a candidate on the basis of an untrue statement; and <2001, c. 416, §1 (new).>

E. The survey is primarily for the purpose of suppressing or changing the voting position of the call recipient. <2001, c. 416, §1 (new).>

"Push poll" does not include any survey supporting a particular candidate that fails to reference another candidate or candidates other than in a basic preference question.

Reference Link - Campaign Legal Center
Here is some proposed legislation on how the Federal gov't would like it defined.

On January 7, 2003 , U.S. Representative Thomas Petri (R-WI) introduced H.R. 156, the "Push Poll Disclosure Act of 2003." This legislation addresses the phenomenon of "push polling" - campaign communications designed to influence voters' perceptions of candidates under the guise of a standard opinion poll. H.R. 156 requires those who conduct polling by telephone or electronic device which (i) surveys more than 1,200 households, and (ii) asks the respondent to state opinions or views regarding a future election for Federal office to disclose during the interview who is paying the expenses of the poll (as well as make other disclosures).

[tsipple]

9. Nobody Knows the Question Order

Zogby doesn't make it clear, so it's possible the "lifelong Democrat" question got asked after the preference question.

I agree with the other responders who say it doesn't do anything for Dean specifically. It may be a slam against Clark, but there are eight lifelong Democrats in the race.

(On edit: make that seven lifelong Democrats. Dean converted in college. He wasn't an adult Republican very long, if at all, but he wasn't "lifelong" either.)

If the question was asked ahead of the preference question, I think it would be fair to criticize Clark's number in that poll and give him a couple extra points.

It's also fair to point out that Zogby's results are reasonably consistent with other poll results. There's a lot of data coming out of New Hampshire, and it's pretty consistent.

I do not read too much into polls, though, especially this far out. We've still got about three months until primary votes are cast in New Hampshire.

[Skwmom]

20. How is Zogby's results consistent.

Not according to the other poll results I've read.

[FubarFly]

10. No.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=587855#587963

[Skwmom]

11. I'd like to add the following

As stated I pulled this from another site. Someone in another thread stated that this question came after the nominee preference question. From looking at the referenced page I can't tell which question was asked first. But even if the question was asked after asking the nominee preference such questions are still intended to leave a certain impression with the person being polled. The only time I have ever heard someone ask someone if it was wise to do something, the person raising the question was inferring that it was an unwise thing to do.

Why don't they add a question like, "Today when it is possible that we could be subject to another terrorist attack at any time would you feel safer with a commander in chief who evaded the draft or one who had served his country in a time of war, being decorated with honors?"

[FubarFly]

12. He is my reply to your other thread

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=587855#588132

IMHO this is much ado about nothing.

[Skwmom]

19. Much ado about nothing?

Let me make my point clear: Question: Should the Democratic party nominate someone who is a lifelong Democrat, or would Democrats be wise to select someone who is a recent convert to their way of thinking?

This is a lie intentionally meant to paint Clark as an opportunist – since when has Clark just decided to think that affirmative action was right etc. I think he’s held his beliefs for quite some time, – he just never selected a party. In addition, the only time I have ever heard anyone say “Is that a wise thing to do they were inferring hey that’s not a smart thing to do!

It's really sad when people are unwilling to see that this is slimy, dishonest, and deceptive polling.

[FubarFly]

22. Here's my reply.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=587855#590090

[robbedvoter]

15. Pushpolling against Clark. He did same against Dean in September

when he asked - BEFORE the candidate preference question - in the South - how do people feel about gay marriage.
If you go to this link
http://www.cesame-nm.org/Standards/Zogby.pdf
you'll see Zogby did it to boost impeachment of Clinton, dick&bush tax cuts (over Gore) and many other "worthy" causes. Bottom line: the results (like Zogby) are unreliable.
And, I don't think dean commisioned Zogby on this poll, but Roveco - same guys who did the phone push polls as per the TNR opinion.

[CMT]

16. No Zogby is not polling for Dean

This is just the fourth poll that was released within four days to give Dean a double-digit lead in NH, admittedly it is the largest margin, but the other polls ranged between 13-17 points.

The reason the pollster asked that question (and it was after he asked candidate preference) was because like it or not that has been a subject of debate by several candidates in this election--and not just Dean.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

17. Pollster John Zogby:

“This is stunning. Dean leads 43-20 among Democrats and 35 to 11 among Independents. He hits 40 among all age groups, union and non-union voters. His lead is 57-17 among self-described progressives, 50-20 among liberals, and 34-14 among moderates. Married voters give him a 38-13 edge and singles a 45-21 point lead. He holds huge leads among all education groups, among investors and non-investors, men and women. This qualifies as juggernaut status. Can he be stopped?”

[UpstateNYDem]

18. False

Unless you actually saw the script you would have no way of knowing whether or not the question was asked prior. And I can tell you with 100% certainty that that question was not asked prior.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

21. So... you saw the script?

You say that is the only way of knowing... then you tell us about the 100% certainty you have. The only conclusion is that you saw the script. Are you a pollster for Zogby or something?

[ScreamingMeemie]

23. All I can say is, what does Mary think about that?

;)

[Mass_Liberal]

24. doesn't matter

even if you discount the zogby polls, Dean is still winning by a fair margin in NH