Democratic candidates only hurt themselves by attacking Dean.

[w4rma]

Misplaced Mudslinging
Democratic candidates only hurt themselves by attacking Dean.
…
Yes, in a primary we need candidates to spell out their differences. We need to know what makes them deserve our vote and, in a big, inclusive party like the Democratic one, where they stand on the issues.

But part of the reason the Dean campaign has been so successful is that the former Vermont governor has focused his anger on President Bush rather than explicitly attacking Democratic opponents. By training their fire on Dean, Gephardt, Kerry and Lieberman are only garnering the former governor more attention. Remember when Lieberman attacked Dean on the Middle East during the most recent presidential debate, in Baltimore? It may have won Lieberman a mention in the next morning's paper but it hasn't seemed to boost his campaign at all. It simply cemented the image of Dean as the front-runner, which helps Dean and Dean only.

The Dean-Kerry spat has been going on since the South Carolina debate. Last week, Kerry's communications director, Chris Lehane, quit, reportedly because Kerry wasn't aggressive enough in going after Dean. I don't know if Lehane felt he was watching a rerun of the 2000 election recount, when Gore sat quietly by while the Bush crowd slugged its way into the White House. But a general election is the time to sling mud. And the other party's guy is the person to sling it at.

Perhaps the nomination contest is starting to get nasty early because of the compressed primary schedule. Many of the candidates will be out of the race after the March 2 primaries, if not before. So if they're going to take their shots, now is the time. But they should remember that their opposition research is likely to end up as grist for a no doubt grateful Bush re-election team. Lively debate is a good thing. But at this stage of the game, trying to take down another guy with personal attacks isn't.
http://www.prospect.org/webfeatures/2003/09/jones-m-09-22.html

[mikehiggins]

1. Reagan was right

He had a simple rule; he would never speak ill of a fellow Republican.

It's the kind of thing we should bear in mind today. Sniping at Dean just makes the rest look small and petty, which is a shame because they all, mostly, have something good to contribute to the debate.

It's like these guys are so accustomed to doing this stuff that they can't help themselves.

A few years back I met the man who devised the infamous Atomic Goldwater ad. It only aired once, according to him, though it was seen thousands of times since that campaign. It really was the first truly negative political ad, the precursor of the Willie Horton type ads made infamous over the years. The guy who put it together more or less apologised. If he had only known, he said.

Well, I think its time we retired the lies and character assassinations and just dealt with the issues. Certainly, Bush is, in and of himself, an issue, but Dean's 1-Y deferment is not, nor Kerry's missions in vietNam.

The issues are Iraq, the economy, the rape of the environment, the huge deficit and, of course, Dubya's culpability for all that has gone wrong since the Supreme Court elevated him to the Presidency.

That's what we should all be concentrating on if we want to win next November.

We DO want to win, right?

[Eurobabe]

26. true, out gathering signatures all day...

for Clark, and the Deanies in my area were very civil and signed our petition to get Clark on the ballot.

Hang together or hang separately.

[DemDogs]

30. Does Dean agree with Reagan's rule

You said about Reagan: "He had a simple rule; he would never speak ill of a fellow Republican." Does Dean believe in that rule? Do you believe in that rule?

"It's like these guys are so accustomed to doing this stuff that they can't help themselves" you write. So, in your view who are ALL the people who are speaking ill of fellow Democrats?

Let's quit playing games here. I don't want to hear this kind of stuff either, but I seem to remember that it started when a little known governor thought he could get some attention if he spat on the other candidates every single chance he got. And some of the swats that were lies he had to apologize for. And he hasn't stopped -- "like cockroaches" is a compliment?

This may come as a shock to those who live in Dean-world, but your guy doesn't have clean hands on this.

[Pez]

2. so "bush-lite" and "cockroach" are compliments?

there are serious concerns over policy issues. that is the difference between dean's name-calling and the rest of the dems-- they point out dean's (and each others') policies they think are flawed, and how theirs are superior. i think that is perfectly reasonable, especially since the economy and international relations have been destroyed by BUSH INC... i prefer a debate about issues rather than tossing around a bunch of bad names.

[w4rma]

5. Those are small potatoes compared to Kerry's attacks.

…
ATTACKS BY FELLOW DEMOCRATIC CANDIDATES ON GOVERNOR DEAN

STARTING SEPTEMBER 1

Democrat hopefuls rip chief rival Dean; Kerry, Lieberman turn up heat on front-runner - AP, 9/1

Kerry slams Dean - Boston Globe, 9/1

Democratic White House Hopefuls Focus Attacks On Dean - The Bulletin's Frontrunner, 9/2

Kerry launches campaign, takes aim at Bush, Dean - Seattle Times, 9/3

Kerry Changes Stance, Takes On Dean New Campaign Tactic Highlights Differences Between Candidates - Boston Globe, 9/4

Rivals rip surging Dean - on paper; Democrats blast him in debate handouts - Dallas Morning News, 9/5

Lieberman Leads Attacks On Dean In First Debate - WSJ, 9/5

Dean's Quick Rise Makes Him Target Of His Own Party - Pittsburgh Post-Gazette, 9/7

Lieberman Criticizes Dean About His Remarks on Israel - NY Sun, 9/8

Taking a risk, Lieberman takes on front-running Dean - AP, 9/9

Edwards Critical of Dean Over Race Remark - AP, 9/10

Lieberman, Kerry rip Dean; Dems turn feisty in 2nd debate - Boston Globe, 9/10

Gephardt rips into Dean on health care - AP, 9/12

Presidential Candidate Congressman Gephardt Unleashed A Stinging Attack On Rival Howard Dean - FOX News, 9/12

Gephardt Attacks Dean on 2 Social Programs - NYT, 9/13

Gephardt accuses Dean of backing GOP policies - Baltimore Sun, 9/13

Gephardt criticizes Dean for past positions - Des Moines Register, 9/13

Gephardt plays hardball with front-runner Dean - Manchester Union Leader, 9/13

Gephardt Shifts Attacks to Dean - WP, 9/13

After Climbing To The Top, Dean Discovers He's A Target Rivals Set Sights On Front-Runner - Boston Globe, 9/14

In A Shift Of Strategy, Kerry Takes On Dean - Boston Globe, 9/14

Gephardt is latest to attack Dean - Chicago Tribune, 9/14

Gephardt Aims At Dean, Linking Him To Gingrich - St. Louis Post-Dispatch, 9/14

Kerry rips Bush but adds Dean hit - AP, 9/15

Gephardt Steps Up Criticism Of Dean, Says He Agreed With 'Gingrich Republicans' - Frontrunner, 9/15

Gephardt: An Attack A Day Keeps The Doctor At Bay? - Hotline, 9/15

Dean becomes a target - Newsday, 9/15

Gephardt Uses Web Site to Criticize Dean - AP, 9/16

Gephardt: Moredeanbashing.com - Hotline, 9/16

Kerry Openly Criticizes Dean's Stance On Tax Cuts For Middle Class Families - Frontrunner, 9/16

Still under attack, Dean goes easy on his rivals - AP, 9/17

Kerry Steps Up Attacks On Dean Over Trade - Frontrunner, 9/23

Kerry Attacks Rival Dean Over Protectionism - NYT, 9/23

Despite interest in Clark, Dean is still top target of other candidates - Philadelphia Inquirer, 9/25

Among the 10, Two Are Tested the Most; Newcomer Clark Avoids Serious Gaffes; Dean Withstands Sharper Challenges - WP, 9/26

10 Democratic rivals debate national woes, attack well-financed Dean and ignore newcomer Clark - Knight-Ridder, 9/26

Democrats spare Clark in his first debate and go after Dean - AP, 9/26

Democratic Candidates Focus Attacks On Dean In Primary Debate - Frontrunner, 9/26

Clark survives debate, as hopefuls target Dean; Candidates' attacks include a comparison to Gingrich - Dallas Morning News, 9/26

Debate Rivals Target Dean - Hartford Courant, 9/26

Debate: All Eyes On The General, All Attacks Aimed At Dean - Hotline, 9/26

Gephardt, Kerry attack Dean over prior views - Washington Times, 9/26

Dean Is Targeted by Rivals - LA Times, 9/26

Bush, Dean under attack in 10-way Democratic debate - Myrtle Beach Sun-News, 9/26

Fellow Dems Diss Dean As Sparks Fly In Debate - NY Post, 9/26

Attacking the Leader; Debate barbs aimed at front-runner Dean - NY Newsday, 9/26

Party unity? The candidates were united, in going after Howard Dean - Phila. Inquirer, 9/26

Dean Takes The Heat From Rivals - Baltimore Sun, 9/26

Clark Debut Doesn't Change Democrats' Focus on Dean - NY Times, 9/27

Democratic rivals target Bush -- and Dean - Salon.com, 9/27

Gephardt attacks Dean Medicare record - AP, 9/29

Democrats: Candidates Criticize Dean's Record On Medicare - American HealthLine, 9/29

Gephardt Compares Dean's Record On Medicare To Gingrich's - Frontrunner, 9/29

Gephardt: Takes His Sparring With Dean To The Sunday Shows - Hotline, 9/29

Attacks on Dean may leave voters dizzy - St. Petersburg Times, 9/29

Dean Rivals Try To Turn His Comments On Key Issues Against Him - Frontrunner, 10/2

Kerry Attacks Dean For Bush Pact - NYT, 10/2

Rivals Target Dean's Blunt Comments - WP, 10/2

Kerry Attacks Dean Over '93 Nuclear Waste Accord - Frontrunner, 10/6

Kerry maintains attacks on Dean over Medicare - DMR, 10/7

Kerry: Still Hammering Away At Dean On Medicare - Hotline, 10/7

Clark, Dean Are Targeted in Debate - LA Times, 10/10

Gephardt roasts Dean on past political moves - Myrtle Beach Sun-News, 10/12

Mutual Threat Unites 2 Rivals Opposing Dean - NYT, 10/12

Gephardt and Kerry unite against Dean - IHT, 10/13

Dean Continues To Draw Fire From Rivals At Des Moines AARP Forum - Frontrunner, 10/16

Other Candidates Again Target Dean; At Iowa Seniors Forum, He Is Chided for Views on Medicare, Bush Tax Cuts - WP, 10/16

'Divers' Dedicated to Dig Dirt on Dean - AP, 10/21

Edwards raps Dean on health plan - Manchester Union Leader, 10/21

Kerry Criticizes Dean Oversight of Vermont Egg Farm - AP, 10/22
…
http://blog.deanforamerica.com/archives/001964.html#more

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

6. Double damn.

But I'm sure the list of Dean's attacks is much, much longer.


Right? :shrug:

[Pez]

8. is that trippi-sanctioned spam?

what is the problem with pointing out specific policy differences and candidates' past records?

that is the problem with being front-runner... these other guys aren't in it to lose.

[w4rma]

9. You don't want folks to see what Kerry is doing, so you mislabel it "spam"

IMHO.

It's time to nip this 'Kerry is the victim of bad old Dean who called him Bush-lite for using Bush's defense in defending part of Bush's tax cuts' thing in the bud.

It's also time to nip this 'Kerry and the rest of the insiders are victims of bad old Dean who said the Congresscritters who refuse to pass a prescription drug program will scurry away like cockroaches under a Dean presidency' thing in the bud.

[Pez]

10. not just kerry there.

none of the people running for president thought it would be a frikkin tea party; there are no victims. that is ridiculous...

...like your misrepresentation of the tax cuts/health care. whatever.

[Name removed]

13. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Pez]

15. i'm not bitching

i don't care which way it goes. i think pointing out specific policy differences is better than blanket name-calling, but it's not my problem one way or the other. that's for the campaigns to deal with...

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

17. FYI.

"Bush-lite" refers to IWR and Patriot Act votes.

"Cockroaches" refers to the tendency of Congresscritters to scurry when the hard light of evaluation is turned on.

Both are policy differences.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

25. Cockroaches a policy criticism!

You win the "Most Sycophantic Dean Post" award.

[DrFunkenstein]

16. September

What about the last year? There is no candidate that Dean hasn't gone negative on left in the race. The fact that he is thin-skinned doesn't seem to help matters much in terms of character. Same for his supporters. After months of hearing "Kerry is pro-war Bush-lite," now I have to deal with people whining about Dean getting called out on his record on Medicare. Boo freakin' hoo.

PS - Dean's negativity has set up every campaign against him. Who here has a candidate that hasn't been trashed by Dean?

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

18. Dean "went negative" on Kerry when he was the frontrunner.

When he started his campaign pretty much everyone was in front of him. Now he's right up there and the tables have turned. If Dean had been in the lead last September, do you think that Kerry wouldn't have "attacked" then? It's called primary politics. Always been this way, probably always will be. BTW, I've seen more whining about the "Bush-lite" comment than anything else on DU (excepting Chimp and his polices, of course).

[w4rma]

19. Yeah, yeah, Dean called some of his opponents "Bush-lite".

Kerry supporters have all made this abundantly clear that Kerry was rightly or wrongly labeled Bush-lite by Dean.

Oh yeah, Dean also said that the insiders who refuse to pass a prescription drug program would scurry away under the light of his presidency like cockroaches. Yup. You've made everyone on the board aware of that one too.

FYI, I'm beginning to wonder if the Dean campaign should thank you for all that hard work disseminating that mem about some of Dean's opponents. ;) Note, the first time I'd heard the "Bush-lite" attack was through blm.

[LuminousX]

21. You know, you have a point

I was first made aware of the 'cockroach' comment (which I still agree with, as Dean was talking about those Congresscritters who have obstructed prescription drug benefits, not all Congresscritters entirely... oh, the subtleties of language, lost on so many who are eager to be a victim)by Kerry supporters. I didn't think anything of the 'Bush-lite' comment when it first broke because Truman made similar statements and since Dean didn't mention specific congresscritters, I took it as a generality of the congress's support of tax cuts and war, but then Kerry supporters made it crystal clear that Dean was referring to Kerry as Bush-lite, so I started to think of Kerry as Bush-lite.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

22. I never looked at it that way.

By getting so outraged by "Bush-lite," there becomes an identification of the candidate with that very characteristic.

Hmmm.

[Skwmom]

34. Are we re-writing history.

Dean slammed the other candidates for being Bush lite. He might not have called them by name but the inference was clear.

[Name removed]

36. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[LuminousX]

20. How did Dean trash Edwards, Sharpton, or Braun?

'Trash' is a strong term.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

24. Isn't Edwards one of the cockroaches in Congress

who are going to scurry away once HoHo shines his flashlight on them?

[w4rma]

31. Nope. Edwards isn't running for reelection to the Senate.

:(


Also, I don't think Sen. Edwards is one of the Senators who "have sat on prescription drug benefits".

[quinnox]

3. Nah

Unfortunately for Dean, Gephardt and Kerry would rather have the nomination than him. They aren't going to lay down and surrender to Dean as if he is The One True Dem. It doesn't work that way, no matter how much Deanies would wish it to be so, Kerry and Gep will do everything to try and win the nomination, as they should.

In fact, I think Dean has pissed off Kerry so much, that Kerry will do everything in his power to take Dean down with him if he does go.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

4. Just like the BFEE?

If so, Dean has no worries. As a matter of fact, the BFEE has reached the pinnacle of their power during Kerry's Senate tenure.


Am I wrong? :shrug:

[quinnox]

7. Let me put it this way

I wouldn't be terribly surprised if in the end Dean, Gephardt and Kerry are so bloodied by the campaign fighting between the camps, that Clark and Edwards will be very happy beneficiaries.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

11. Me neither. (surprised)

I have yet to see any serious blood drawn yet, though. The sad truth is that very few people are even following the back and forth. The punch/counterpunches will be more severe when we get to within a couple of weeks of the first primary and the media coverage becomes more pervasive. Clark and Edwards are obviously banking on this outcome. Clark has said he won't be critical and Edwards largely hasn't been. It's strategery.

[LuminousX]

12. Possible, but my money is still on Kerry or Dean.

Edwards is an interesting dark horse though he doesn't have enough experience for me to support him due to my strict criteria. I won't be too surprised if we see Edwards get a small surge after South Carolina when he picks up some real press and maybe some good donation sums to help spread his overall message.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

14. The aftermath of the SC primary is going to be interesting.

Edwards is almost certainly going to win it. It will be the critical moment in his campaign. Sink or swim time. Does it float? :shrug:

[Feanorcurufinwe]

23. Isn't this like over a month old?

and :wtf: Dean is the injured party?

The weepy, liberal cockroaches are ganging up on him?

:nopity:

[carpetbagger]

27. And Dean only hurts the Democratic party by attacking them.

I've been trying to be sympathetic to his campaign, but I'm increasingly getting the sense that Howard Dean is out there for Howard Dean. Kerry and Gephardt are "cockroaches"? To put it mildly, I disagree with Dean on that one.

[thentro]

29. bitter with dean

I am still bitter with dean for calling Clark "A Republican up until XX days ago"
Seriously, he lost me!
Untrue, unfair and ignorant.

[w4rma]

33. Noone ever mentions the context that goes along with the cockroaches quote

…if he won, members of Congress were "going to be scurrying for shelter, just like a giant flashlight on a bunch of cockroaches."

Dean's point was that we ought to:
"get rid of all the Democrats and Republicans who have sat on prescription drug benefits".
and that
"These guys have been in Washington talking for all those years, and what do you have to show for it?" he asked 150 elderly people in Council Bluffs. "When I am president, we're going to have prescription drugs instead of hot air in Washington."
http://www.nytimes.com/2003/10/15/politics/campaigns/15DEAN.html
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=166861

I don't know if Gephardt did (I seriously doubt he sat on this, though), but I'm pretty sure that Kerry didn't sit on it, so I don't believe either Kerry or Gephardt were being referred to as a scurrying cockroach.

[poskonig]

28. Make the election about Dean! WooHoo!

The establishment vote between Clark, Gephardt, Kerry, Edwards, and Lieberman is very split as it is. By making Dean the center of attention, Dean gobbles up the most airtime.

The same thing happens during the debates. Everytime Dean is called "Gingrich" or criticized for not having foreign policy experience, he gets free time to talk about Iraq, health care, et cetera, which is way cool.

From a personal standpoint, I will not believe all of this hatred is due to a few vague "Bushlite" comments. There is some serious Deanis evny going around. It has to hurt being a Kerry supporter, since he was the annointed one who had the convention set up in Boston for their preselected victory.

I tell these guys -- stop the bashing and get on message -- get your liberal credentials out, do media stunts, clever campaigning, et cetera, but they never listen. They perceive that Dean got ahead by bashing (that's somewhat correct, he got ahead by bashing Bush) and if they "bash back," they'll gain ground.

Instead, they're running their campaigns into the ground. This is the same type of thing that happened in California when Gray Davis made the election about Arnold instead of California.

[Skwmom]

32. Dean started the mudslinging/lying about the other

candidates. I hope Kerry hits him hard with the draft dodging and all of his other lies and takes him out (so Bush doesn't win in a landslide). We need a President that the rest of the world community can look up to - not a phony, smarmy, lying politician who attacks democratic members of congress by calling them cockroaches. Mr. Straight Shooter (not) hired the guy who did all of Davis' sleazy work. I'm amazed how people on this board are so quick to point out the sleazy lying of Bush and other republican politicians but refuse to see Dean for what he is.

[ScreamingMeemie]

35. I met him last Saturday, and saw what he is...a nice man with

really good ideas...ideas I can get behind. Glad you think the same of your candidate. Sleaze? Nowhere to be found.

Would you call my father a draft dodger, if he were running for president? He was 1A. Then they found out my mother was with child. He still wanted to go. They wouldn't take him. Does that make him a draft dodger as well? He actually had a going away party.

[Skwmom]

37. If you can't see the sleaziness of Dean's

campaign it's because you are choosing not to see what is there for anyone willing too look with an open mind. The man has outright lied on more than one occassion and he doesn't care what he does to the democratic party.

What does your father have to do with this? Dean went with x-rays to the draft board, got an exemption and then went skiing, did construction, etc. This doesn't pass the smell test.

[Pavlovs DiOgie]

38. Perhaps you're so blinded by your

disdain for Dean that you can't see the good in him. He is saving the democratic party by giving people a voice and showing them how to use it. He's no saint, but he's by far the cream of the crop.

I will meet him on Tuesday, and can't wait. His campaign has changed me in that I've become more politically involved than ever before, have connected with my community in a way I've never done, and have hope again, hope that I had lost when the Washington insiders sold their souls for political expediency.

I don't agree with every little thing Dean does (or doesn't do) but overall he speaks to me and for me.