Obvious pandering on Dean's part

[cindyw]

Okay, all candidates pander, but this so bad I had to post it here and laugh. Let go of your partisanship and admit I'm right.


Democratic Hopefuls Debate Tonight in Detroit


I'm reaching out to you, and I need your help," Dean told a predominantly black congregation at Fellowship Chapel.

Dean's rivals have suggested that the front-running candidate has had difficulty broadening his appeal to the black community.

At Greater Grace Temple on Detroit's west side, Dean sat through an hourlong sermon punctuated by a constant drum beat and a choir that sang and danced on a wide stage.

Once introduced, a smiling Dean said, "It's going to be a long time before I go to a white church again."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A20780-2003Oct26.html

[dsc]

1. I have been to both kinds of churches

and I have to say that black churches are way more interesting and fun. The music is better and the sermons are often better. It isn't pandering to say as much.

[cindyw]

7. That's not the point.

Imagine if he had said to a hispanic crowd, "Wow this food is great, I'm never eating white people food again." Obvious pandering.

[virtualobserver]

46. he was just expressing his appreciation.

and I couldn't agree more. I've had the same experience and I reacted exactly the same way. And BTW, I did in fact cut down on bologna and mayo on white bread after I discovered tex-mex.

[Pavlovs DiOgie]

2. LOL

It's called working a crowd. I saw Macy Gray do it last night by calling the audience 'you sexy people' all night long. It really got the crowd going!

[dsc]

4. and in return

the audience pretended she sounded good. Sorry, I couldn't resist.

[Pavlovs DiOgie]

16. LOL

She was playing at a local fair-type event. Definitely worth the $5 ticket, but I don't know enough of her songs to have paid normal ticket prices to see her.

[quinnox]

3. "The ultimate panderer" strikes again

Dean can't help himself, when in front of Iowa seniors, he is a "rural person" and when questioned about his favorite song at a debate, he names some obscure group only his current audience he is trying to pander to can name.

[dsc]

5. Is it really your contention

that a person who has lived in a state with 600,000 people since Disco was hot isn't rural? I find that bizarre.

[quinnox]

8. You are right

I understand, Dean is an outsider, he doesn't have Washington insiders helping with his campaign. Or does he?

[dsc]

12. I didn't say that

but he said he was rural and I think living in Vermont, which has only one city over 30k and that city is by no means a large one, since 1978 counts as rural. I know quite a few people in Cleveland, I go to Cleveland on a somewhat regualar basis, but I live in a township of a few thousand. I think I get to call myself rural. I don't care how many people in cities Dean knows or takes advice from, you contended it was pandering to call himself rural and that is what I take issue with. So again, is it pandering to describe oneself as rural when one lives in the second smallest state in the union and has done so for well over 20 years?

[blm]

20. and when he was first campaigning in NH he wouldn't bring up civil unions

and early in South Carolina he only touted his conservative credentials. Then the antiwar crowds grew and BAM....Dean became Super Progressive.

[dsc]

54. that is just flat out, gold carat false

I heard, with my own ears, on Cspan Dean in New Hampshire speaking on the civil unions bill you just claimed he didn't. It was when Gore still hadn't made up his mind yet which makes it very, very early. You candidate, and I have his literature right here to back this up, won't even mention gays and lesbians in his literature if it is going to a general audience.

[xray s]

6. Black churches are much more "alive" in their worship

Dean got into it. I can understand why he made that statement.

That is my nonpartisan 2 cents :)

[cindyw]

10. This is true, but still not my point.

Back in my clubbing days, I went to the hip hop clubs instead of the other clubs, because it was just more real there and the dancing was better. But I never stood up and shouted WOW I'm never going to a White club again. It's obvious pandering, plian and simple. Just had to point it out.

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[cindyw]

28. Yes, I could have, but it was still pandering

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[JohnKleeb]

37. Youre right no one does and I dont think you do either

My sole problem with this cindy is the way the races have their churches charactized.

[cindyw]

40. I'll be serious for a minute

and say that I am not accusing Dean of this, but in a larger sense I see your point. I do not like it when people use the labels. It just adds to the divisiveness. Growing up in a catholic church and the west coast, I was so rare to see a community off all white or black or Jewish, etc. So it always surprises me to hear a community characterized a all one thing or another. Again this is not what I associate with what Dean said.

[JohnKleeb]

42. I am not mad at you

I can see why you may have seen it as pandering, I dont know what it is, not something I would have said myself. Look I am not mad at you cindy. I know, I saw other people commenting on "black" and "white" churches. Thats my only comment. I can see why one may see it is pandering keep in mind. I dont know what it is personally.

[Scott Lee]

11. Wow, speaking to a crowd! What's next, tyranny?

Some of you Dean haters make me hee haw.

Good Lord. Dean played to a crowd. That's never happened before in the political history, surely! We must stop this madman before he does something really really horrible, like build an even greater lead over the rest of the pathetic bunch called the Dem candidates for president!

[cindyw]

14. Playing to a crowd would be to say, "Wow, you guys are great, I think

I'll come to your church every time I come to town." It was pandering. I'm not saying every other candidate wouldn't do this, but Dean did in front of a reporter who managed to get into a Washington Post article right after it happened.

[Alex146]

22. maybe it was a joke?

why make a big deal out of this?

[cindyw]

24. I'm not making a big deal. Notice how I said I laughed and not I was

outraged. Maybe it was a joke. I like watching politics. It's funny when you see someone get all excited and say something not true. Do you really think Dean meant it? No, he was pandering. I am just laughing at this people, not making a case against his candidacy.

[Egnever]

15. Once again Dean is right!

Black churches are more fun.

Dont know why you guys keep pointing out when hes right all the time. I thought you were trying to bash him.

[Rowdyboy]

17. Oh, for God's sake, give the man a break...

It may have been his first experience in a black church. I can testify, you leave electrified by the congregation and the music. He responded appropriately.

[sfecap]

49. It wasn't his first experience....

Providence Baptist Church, September 7, 2003








Probably just pandering, though....

[mandyky]

18. Dean's right, white churches are boring

I love black gospel music, and would be much more likely to attend church if a black gospel church was closer to me.

Hate to burst your bubble, Dean doesn't pander. He says what he means.

[cindyw]

23. Please, I grew up Catholic, I know boring.

It was still pandering

[JohnKleeb]

27. heh I didnt mind it I am Catholic too

My point is that I dont care really but I dont like the generalizations of a "white" and "black" church, theres different domanations in Christianity.

[cindyw]

30. That's why it was pandering and not crowd pumping.

He was speaking to blacks in general not the crowd. He had to know it would get reported. Also please note that I don't mind, I just think obvious pandering is funny when it comes from a complete outsider to a community (meaning this church not the culture).

[liberalnurse]

32. Excellent point JK.....

You always make me proud!

[JohnKleeb]

35. course theres differences

If I went to some fundy church down south and I went to lets say a greek orthodox church somewhere, it would be different. There is differences. I dont care nonetheless.

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[cindyw]

41. Did I say he should be embarrassed?

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[JohnKleeb]

25. I dont give a fuck honestly

If he means what he does, he does mean. Now I dont like "white" chruches being generalized being that theres a lot of demonations. I dont care honest to god really what kind of church he prefers. Theres no such thing as a "white" and "black" church now I think more often than not you see gospel singing in mostly black churches but thats not that white congreations dont have any fun. I am a bapitized Catholic but I hardly go to church, and honestly the times Ive gone I kinda liked that. All a matter of preference and who gives a damn.

[Padraig18]

29. Welcome back, you rogue!

:hi:

[JohnKleeb]

34. Ive been back

who gives a fuck really. I dont believe there is a "white" and "black" church now if you excuse me I am gonna go to southern baptist services ;), then to Uniteran, then to Catholic, and then to Eastern Orthodox ;)s all the way to it heh. Theres differences.

[liberalnurse]

36. But don't you just love

Midnight Mass? I'ts my favorite.

[JohnKleeb]

38. I hardly go to church anymore

:shrug: My grandparents are religious and my parents dont really care, I am pratically a Uniteran.

[cindyw]

43. Funny, but

The only Unitarian I know is a Kucinich supporter. Must be in the water.

[JohnKleeb]

44. interesting

Well I dont know what I am, I am Catholic by birth and I havent seen any thing well actually a few years back some bigots made me consider leaving but I stayed. Thats interesting really on the Uniterans but it doenst suprise me being that Uniterans tend to be pretty liberal on a lot. I am not one though, I agree with a lot though.

[poskonig]

51. Fun pandering, but pandering nonetheless.

Is this really a serious issue?? :P

[cindyw]

56. No, just fun to point out as i have said a few times now.

[mzmolly]

52. Actually I agree with Dean...White churches are boring as hell

No pun intended. :evilgrin:

[JohnKleeb]

53. heh

I dont care really I just dont like "white" and "black" churches saying is all, being that your race doesnt determine your faith nesscary and how services are done, lol we whities may seem the same but in reality honestly the white race is diverse.

[mzmolly]

55. I've been to about 25 different predominently white churches.

And, have been bored to tears in most.

[JohnKleeb]

58. Yea but what is white you know

Theres a difference. I dont care really.

[Octafish]

61. Dean doesn't get it about race.

No matter what he does or sees, it seems he will never understand.

[Punkingal]

62. I'm locking this thread..

flamebait.

punkingal, DU moderator