Dean on CSpan good bye to some cherished myths

[dsc]

Myth Dean grew up rich. Well, not exactly. His Park Avenue apartment. Bought in 1950 for $8000. As a way of comparision my dad's first job as a school teacher in 1960 was for $6000. He also shared a bed room with his brother growing up (his family had four kids).

Myth Dean hates Congress. He clearly stated they would wind up writing his health care plan and mentioned several Congressmen who he admires. One was Waxman.

[catzies]

1. Has the esteemed Mr. Waxman returned the compliment?

I'd like to know what he thinks of Dean as I too hold him (Waxman) in high regard.

[dsc]

2. It was a solo interview

and thus no Waxman. I have no earthly clue if Waxman even knows yet.

[dsc]

3. Now they are touring his headquarters

and some more cherished myths bite the dust.

Casey, that oh so evil Kerry hating dog, seems to have learned a new trick. He plays dead upon the mention of a Bush Presidency. Also his workers are by no means Deanie babies. I am 35 and many of them are old enough to be my parents.

On edit and full disclosure Now we do have the young people. They are in the internet part of the office. Somehow I bet that everyone else's internet people are in the same age range. They appear to be in their 20's and 30's.

[pruner]

4. of course the web team is young

web development is a young man's/woman's game.

the volunteers cover the entire age spectrum.

[RevolutionStartsNow]

5. Senior volunteers

Last week we had a letter writing session at a local restaurant, about 12 of us showed up. About 30 minutes into it, an older (70s?) couple showed up and very quietly sat at the table and cranked out 15 letters, thanked us, and left. It was very cool.

Our local group actually skews above 40, I would guess.

[dsc]

6. At 35 I have been at or below the median age

at many a meet up. I can think of only one where I was clearly older than most of the people and that was a very early one. I was one of four attendees and was the oldest.

[Nazgul35]

7. Did you see the meeting in the conference room...

talk about your rainbow coalition!!!!

There was someone there from every walk of life...

[KittyWampus]

8. You 'Forgot' To Mention Dean Residence In Hamptons

And since I live in the Hamptons.... I can tell you that Park Avenue residents who have second homes out here ARE wealthy.

Tell you what, if you find out where exactly he lived (town & street) I'll let you know EXACTLY what the area theylived in was like.

And as for Congress, he called them cockroaches recently and said this at the CATO Institute about those very Congresscritterw who were fighting to get money to Governors such as himself:

"You folks at Cato," he told us, "should really like my views because I'm economically conservative and socially laissez-faire." Then he continued: "Believe me, I'm no big-government liberal. I believe in balanced budgets, markets, and deregulation. Look at my record in Vermont." He was scathing in his indictment of the "hyper-enthusiasm for taxes" among Democrats in Washington.

[killbotfactory]

10. You forgot the part where he clubbed a baby seal.

and made a goblet from it's skull.

[dsc]

46. Again were they that expensive in the 1950's

or is this like the hotel room which was much better now than when Gore lived in it? It is utterly, totally, and completely irrelevant how valuable these things are now. It is only relevant what they were worth when Dean was growing up. And, at least in the apartment's case, that wasn't much.

[DemDogs]

69. You mean his family knew someone . . .

and they got a deal. He is the ultimate revisionist. Dispeling myths or making up another whopper?

[Feanorcurufinwe]

9. Who cares if Dean grew up rich? His policies are wrong for America.

Raising taxes on the middle class is no way to get our economy moving.
Simplistic answers won't extract us from Bush's Iraq quagmire.
Knee jerk opposition to any additional gun safety laws won't protect our children.
Shifting answers on Medicare won't assure our seniors their health care plan is safe.
Talking about 'unconscious racism' is no substitute for laws that protect civil rights.

[kang]

11. Whoa, where's that coming from?

Umm..I don't think Dean would be raising middle class taxes. He's simply repealing the Bush tax cut in order to achieve his fiscal policies. Now you can disagree w/that, but don't buy into that whole tax rhetoric that the GOP throws around.

Two other things: I don't think a man who signed a civil union bill takes civil rights lightly and a former doctor w/a history of insuring children in his state will not sell out seniors. I know he made some statement in the past, but we should really focus on what policies they're advocating.

I do have some reservations w/his state gun control position since it allows individuals/gangs to circumvent their very purpose by just crossing state lines, but I understand that it does take away the NRA's thunder. I'm also not sure he's up to the task of stepping in as commander-in-chief. We've had two governors back-to-back now and I'm not sure I'm so confident in handing it over to a third one w/the stakes so high.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

12. If taxes go up on the middle-class, it is a middle-class tax hike.

No attempt to spin the issue will change that simple, obvious fact.

And no talk from a politician is going to convince some swing voter that an increase in his tax bill is anything but an increase in his tax bill.


Black is not white, up is not down. Even if Dean says so.

[killbotfactory]

13. Those federal tax cuts just shifted the burden to the states

and other institution who are in financial crisis and raising taxes or fees.

Why does Kerry want to keep Bush's middle-class tax-hike?

[Feanorcurufinwe]

14. Orwell would be proud of you.

War Is Peace
Freedom Is Slavery
Ignorance Is Strength

and now from Dr. Dean: Up is Down.

[killbotfactory]

15. Raking in cash and topping every poll = imploding

[Feanorcurufinwe]

16. We aren't bettin on a horse race, we are trying to pick a President.

should we pick one whose policy is to raise middle-class taxes and say he isn't raising middle-class taxes?

Isn't there a word for someone who says one thing when he means another?

[killbotfactory]

17. universal health care and fully funding mandates will help more...

than Bush's tax cut.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

18. Dean is lying about his support for universal health care

just like he is lying about his middle-class tax hike.

The facts are, when your tax bill goes up, your taxes have been raised.
When your tax bill goes down, your taxes have been cut.

I just find it amazing that it's even a matter of contention.

[killbotfactory]

19. Nope. He's just pursuing a goal he's tried to accomplish since the 90's

When he was working with the Clinton's.

What do you call it when you cut taxes one place, and raise them in other places? A tax shift. I've seen Edwards call it what it is before, why does Kerry buy into republican talking points?

[Feanorcurufinwe]

22. Is Dean promising to lower state, local taxes or fees? NO. He IS promising

a middle-class tax hike.

As for univeral health care:

Dean promises health coverage for all by 2002
--October 4, 2000
Gov. Howard Dean on Tuesday unveiled an ambitious goal for Vermont's health care system - enactment by 2002 of a plan that would lead to health insurance coverage for every state resident.

Appearing at a press conference at the Burlington Community Health Center, Dean said he would build on proposals expected from a $1.3 million, yearlong study of Vermont's health care system aimed at finding ways to get insurance to Vermonters who currently lack it.
http://rutlandherald.nybor.com/News/State/Story/13593.html



Medicaid cuts will affect thousands of Vermonters
--January 23, 2002
Tens of thousands of Vermonters would see their state health care benefits rolled back or cut off completely under Gov. Howard Dean’s proposed budget, which seeks to wring $16.5 million in savings from Medicaid.

In an effort to curb costs in a rapidly expanding part of the social services budget, Dean is proposing to require many people who got coverage under his expansions of Medicaid programs to pay for a greater share of their health care.

Medicaid is the state-run program that uses both state and federal money to provide benefits to the poor and disabled. Over the past several years Dean has expanded the programs by allowing participation by Vermonters with incomes higher than the federal guidelines.

Under the proposed budget, about 3,200 elderly or disabled Vermonters who get half the cost of long-term drugs paid for under a program called VScript Expanded would see their benefits disappear. This would save the state nearly $2.5 million. A single Vermonter with an annual income up to $19,332 is currently eligible.

And even those making less who are covered under the state’s standard VScript program will see their costs rise.
http://timesargus.nybor.com/Legislature/Story/41169.html


In interviews this week, several liberal Vermont politicians and political observers said Dean often found himself in an adversarial position with the state's liberals, as he demanded that growth in government services fall within the constraints of a balanced budget.

Even as he was unsuccessfully promoting a state version of universal health care in Vermont in the early 1990s, he was a staunch supporter of welfare reform, particularly requiring recipients to work.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A4798-2003Jul30.html

Dean's phony 'support' of universal health care is the same smoke-and-mirrors game he played in Vermont.

[killbotfactory]

yeah yeah yeah

Same old shit that's been posted and refuted forever.

Dean played hardball when he was governer, and didn't accomplish all of his goals, though he did get quite a lot of progress done.

How much will middle/lower income families benefit from having free healthcare for their children?

[Feanorcurufinwe]

27. Saying something has 'been refuted' -when it hasn't -isn't fooling anyone

Where are these 'refutations'? What was the argument used? Did it make any sense or did it just point to the latest poll and say: "See - Dean's ahead- he must be right."?

[killbotfactory]

33. pfft

Dean proposed budget cuts in medicare to the legislature so that he could get a cigarette tax passed, which they were refusing to do. It worked. Dean's a balanced budget hard-ass. Big deal.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

40. Dean cares more about balancing budgets than helping people.

That is an accepted fiscal position in America. Many, many politicians take that approach. But very, very few Democrats.

[killbotfactory]

52. Dean cares about helping people.

And balancing the budget so that the state doesn't go into defecit and have to drastically cut social programs is part of that.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

54. When you gamble, you sometimes lose.

When you lose, whatever you've bet, you lose. So if you are smart, you only bet what you are willing to lose.

What was Dean willing to lose? $16.5 million from Medicaid, including the VSCRIPT Expanded program.

[indigo32]

61. What a crock

Dean is NOT lying about his support for Universal Healthcare and
he is not lying about his repeal of the Bush Tax Cuts.
You can deny the corrolation between Federal support for state and local government and those taxes going up all you want but its the truth. You can deny that most people see very little from the Bush tax cuts all you want and its still the truth. Dean is not denying what he's going to do either. You have NO basis for your accusation on either count.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

64. It's a fact that Dean is not pushing a plan for universal healthcare.

Oh, he calls it 'univeral healthcare' -- but it would not cover everybody.

How is that universal?

Realistic? Perhaps.
A good plan? Maybe.
Universal? No.

It is dishonest to call it a plan for universal healthcare. Just like the spin that a raise in middle-class taxes is anything but a raise in middle-class taxes.

[helleborient]

20. Wow! A total thread hijack...

If you read the beginning, this thread is about none of this...

Sounds like it must be a bad day for the Kerry campaign.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

21. You mean talking about policies and issues?

If that is a thread hijack, I plead guilty.

Because who really does care if Dean grew up rich or poor? What does that have to do with anything?

His policies are wrong for America:

Raising taxes on the middle class is no way to get our economy moving.
Simplistic answers won't extract us from Bush's Iraq quagmire.
Knee jerk opposition to any additional gun safety laws won't protect our children.
Shifting answers on Medicare won't assure our seniors their health care plan is safe.
Talking about 'unconscious racism' is no substitute for laws that protect civil rights.

[helleborient]

23. Those who attack do...

And I believe this thread was a response to that.

Hijack away, then...just thought it was worth pointing out, and remember not to complain when the turnabout occurs.

[kang]

25. TNR: Kerry's attack is just wrong

I can't stand unfair attacks. So in defense of Dean, you be the judge on this one after reading this.

http://www.tnr.com/primary/index.mhtml?pid=646

[Feanorcurufinwe]

31. It would be silly

for me to respond to arguments that haven't been made in the thread.

This almost two month old article makes some points that may or not be relevant to the discussion.

If you wish to state those points, or quote the article in some way that addresses those points, we'll have something to talk about.

[kang]

53. I wasn't talking to you really

since it's very apparent that you feel strongly about this and you've made up your mind on the matter long ago (and I really don't mean that as a dig). I was just offering an article that others might find helpful. That's all. I don't think the issue is as cut and dry as you portray it and I was merely offering an alternative view.

I'm not a Dean supporter, so I really can't expend that much energy defending somebody else's candidate, but I'm pretty sure the Deanies can handle this one just fine. Hope that clarifies. Why it would be "silly" to address the core arguments of the article is still not clear to me since I fail to understand why it's irrelevant due to it's date of origin. Oh well, that's all I got on this one.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

55. It would be silly

because for me to respond to a argument made somewhere else, I would first have to summarize that argument. And for me to refute an argument that I make up or characterize for my opponent is the essence of a strawman. I'm not willing to do it.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

26. Dean is opposed to ANY ADDITIONAL FEDERAL GUN SAFETY LAWS.

Is that a value shared by the Democratic wing of the Democratic party?

Dean is more concerned about balancing budgets than helping struggling families make ends meet.

Is that a value shared by the Democratic wing of the Democratic party?

Dean is a strong believer in state's rights -- the same philosophy that George Wallace championed when he said 'Segregation now, segregation forever".

Is that a value shared by the Democratic wing of the Democratic party?

Dean thinks talking about 'unconscious racism' is more important than strong laws protecting civil rights.

Is that a value shared by the Democratic wing of the Democratic party?

[dsc]

29. Is Bernie Sanders a liberal

was David Bonior a liberal? yes or no.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

32. Is Dean a liberal?

Is Dean a conservative?

Yes or no.


AS IF LABELS MATTER :eyes:

What matters is Dean's policies are wrong.

[helleborient]

35. Is Kerry liberal? He opposes other liberals on important issues...

n/t

[Feanorcurufinwe]

41. Is Dean a liberal? who cares - HE'S WRONG

[helleborient]

37. Dean's policies are not wrong...

In fact they are the best of any Democrat running for the nomination...in my opinion.

Pragmatic, centrist, and the kind that bring the Democratic party back to the majority status it deserves.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

43. Dean would tell the middle-class to be 'pragmatic'

and vote for a raise in their taxes. And we'd end up with four more years of Bush.

No thank you.

[helleborient]

48. Kerry would tell the middle class to share their tax cut with the wealthy.

After all, the child-based, marriage-based, education-based tax cuts impact wealthy people as well.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

51. So Dean will tell people,

who think they are middle-class, that they're really wealthy, and therefore should have a tax hike.

OK. That sounds like a surefire strategy to beat Bush.

[Nazgul35]

60. So let me get this straight...

you have been pushing this nonsense on almost every Dean thread for several days now.....must be the new message coming out of Kerry central....

So what is wrong with asking people to be pragmatic when we are involved in two occupations and a war on terror...you don't really think that as soon as Pres. Kerry is sworn in that AlQeada's going to say...oh, it's ok now....let's move on....

We have always raised taxes during times of war...and what Bush has done is unprecedented...so yes....I say we raise your frigging taxes so our frigging soldiers have enough equipment and homeland security isn't a joke and education and healthcare get paid for....

or should I not get any of this just cause youwant your studpid $700 from the federal government....that's not selfish at all is it....and you have ignored that Bush's cutting off federal aid to states, in addition to the additional costs of homeland security has busted most state's budgets (except for which state...oh yeah...Vermont...) and any additional tax revenue would go toward helping to bail out the states in most dire circumstances....

Trying to hang on to the tax cuts of Bush for cheap political points says alot about the way your candidate practices politics....corse we know that because he didn't seem to get any backbone until Dennis, Howard and Al showed up in the campaign.....

don't worry, I'm sure that your candidate will adopt Dean's plan in a month, when he figures out his strategy isnt working, just like he has for the last three months....

[Feanorcurufinwe]

76. A tax hike now on the middle-class is wrong economically and politically

You seem to be under the mistaken impression that this is somehow about ME. It's not. It's about what is the right policy course for our nation.

[duvinnie]

73. wow

raw nerves about taxes, eh? i am sure ken lay never thinks of himself as anything more than
modestly upper middle class and an all-round good guy. The point is to figure out who is really
hurting in the current tax regimen, and who is meanwhile hunkered down at the trough lapping
up those tax breaks.

Dean would likely start by raising corporate taxes (read his excellent points on corporate taxation
at deanforamerica.com). That WILL allow a saner tax code to take hold - one that puts the
"middle" back in "middle class".

[Feanorcurufinwe]

75. If you can't tell the difference between Ken Lay and the middle-class

no wonder you support Dean.

[killbotfactory]

34. After closing the gun show loophole.

And since I am a democrat, and agree with him, I honestly don't care if a lot of democrats want to pass more gun control laws.

[helleborient]

24. Just as an answer to a bit...

Lowering taxes for those who are married, have children, or family members in college is NOT a middle-class tax cut...it's an incentive for behavior...kind of like a corporate one for lowering air pollution. Except, this is one for fitting right wing family values...can't Mr. Kerry see through that?

I'm more and more saddened every day by the Bush and complicit Democrat quagmire in Iraq. The true liberal leaders in congress and Howard Dean voted against this war...and they were absolutely correct. Thank you Dennis!

[Feanorcurufinwe]

28. If you change tax policy, and taxes go up, mostly on the middle class

it is a middle-class tax hike. Voters are smart enough to know that.

[helleborient]

30. John Kerry is lying about the tax cuts....

He uses examples of people that are married with children as THE representatives of the middle class.

That is wrong...and he knows it...and is using it for political advantage.

You are exactly right..."mostly on the middle class"

Mostly is not all and does not equal "the middle class" as a whole.

I suppose you think John Kerry does not care about those of us who are middle class without children.

Or doesn't care about single people or those with a same-sex partner?

I didn't think so...he seems to mostly care about John Kerry.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

38. The middle class in this country knows who they are.

And they don't need you to tell them they are actually rich anymore than they need Dean telling them he will raise their taxes but it's actually not a raise in taxes.

Not only is this bad policy economically, it would be disastrous politically.

Running against Bush on a promise to cut the child tax credit, the child care credit, rollback the 10% bracket, and reinstitute the marriage penalty would guarantee four more years of Bush.

[helleborient]

42. Let's see who makes traction on this...

I don't really trust the proclamations of Kerry supporters...he was supposed to be leading by the 1st of December...let's wait and see.

Howard Dean is leading the campaign and has the opportunity to explain his position and counter the lies and distortions of John Kerry.

John Kerry seemingly wants to run counter to demographic definition - middle class is tied to income, according to any political scholar.

Tax breaks tied to behavior affect anyone...even the wealthy.

So...if I wanted to distort like John Kerry, I would ask why he is trying to defend tax breaks for the wealthy, instead of starting over under Democratic leadership and doing it the right way in the first place.

Oh, but I forgot, John Kerry likes to negotiate with George Bush and believe George Bush and then vote against George Bush when he's losing in a campaign.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

45. You base your argument of the fact that Dean is ahead in the polls.

Therefore, you say, we should vote for him.


Guess what -- Bush leads Dean in the polls. According to your reasoning, we should vote for him :eyes:

[DemDogs]

70. Don't care but don't like the misinformation

Maybe stockbrokers weren't rich when he was young. But by the time he got to school age, it was off to private school, and when he was conveniently carrying the family doctor's xrays with him to his selective service physical and got a deferment, he did what all struggling New Yorkers do: he went skiing for the winter. And then there is that pesky rathole in the Hamptons, and, I guess he was in work-study at Yale?
If his story was a hard-luck story, he would have told it. He had a lilfe of privilege and now (surprise!) he's not telling the truth about it. Geez, he is really handing the Republicans a lot of ammunition. With each passing day, I can hear Rove cheering him on more and more.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

71. Just fyi

Dean did not carry his x-rays to his selective service physical. He requested a military medical exam 'to clarify his standing'.
http://www.boston.com/news/politics/president/dean/articles/2003/09/21/a_back_condition_wins_dean_a_vietnam_era_draft_deferment?mode=PF

[DrFunkenstein]

36. Dean Has An Arrogant Sense Of Entitlement - Like Bush

I think as the field narrows, this will become more and more clear.

[helleborient]

39. Oh, I thought that was Kerry....

Why else would his supporters trumpet the initials JFK?

Why else would his supporters impugn the intelligence of those who do not support him?

Why else would his supporters base much of his campaign on trumpeting endorsements of very traditional Democrats?

Why else would his campaign wrap itself in his military experiences?

[Feanorcurufinwe]

44. Which of Kerry's policies do you disagree with?

It's hard to tell from your post.

[9119495]

47. Can I answer?

To be honest, I like Kerry quite a bit...but I am a Dean supporter because I think he can win. I also think Kerry can win but I am less sure. I think Dean will mobilize people better and will bring new voters to the polls. I started out pro-Kerry last year, but I found him uninspiring. I was a Bradley supporter in 2000 and I learned that just being smart and right did not win elections. Both Kerry and Dean are smart and right...but Dean can ignite passion. So do I disagree with many of Kerry's positions? No, but he's a good Democrat. We are in the stage where we pick the candidate we like best...until the nomination is set. At that point we rally behind our candidate.

[DrFunkenstein]

59. You Remind Of A More Civilized Time Between Camps

You seem utterly sincere in your beliefs and willing to look at both sides of an issue. There was a time at DU when people were willing to do that. But, seriously, look at the level of discourse it's descended into.

I respect your decision, but would ask you to watch Kerry at his Boston rally (or at the DNC meeting) and watch him fire up a crowd. I saw him speak in New Hampshire and he seriously got my heart beating fast and a distant look in my eyes (the kind of reaction you get when you here Kennedy or MLK speak).

Check him out at Boston or at the DNC:

http://www.johnkerry.com/av/

Kerry was low from his surgery, but really since his announcement he's really picked up steam. He looks healthier and he sounds more vigorous with each event. Think about the debate last night in comparison with the other debates. Kerry's getting sharper and stronger with each week.

[helleborient]

49. I disagree with his style as much as his policies...

And therefore I don't trust him.

I don't know whether I disagree with him on war and on Iraq any more, because he seems to flip votes with the wind.

I distrust him on taxes, because he claims middle class is defined based on behavior - marriage, children, college - and not on income.

I distrust him on labor because his rating on voting with labor dipped when he was thinking of running for President in 2000 and then returned...seemed rather inconsistent when compared with Dick Gephardt, for one.

And I don't believe he can win a national election because he can't motivate Democrats when he began with the most money and the national lead in polls. Howard Dean and others have proven how incredibly vulnerable he would be on a national stage due to his Iraq votes.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

50. You don't trust Kerry but you trust Dean?

How do you explain -- without saying "it's already been refuted" -- this lie:

"Sen. Bob Packwood (R-Ore.): I've said many times that I think we should raise the retirement age about the year 2015--raise it by that time to about age 70.

"Howard Dean: I am very pleased to hear Bob Packwood because I absolutely agree we need to reduce the--I mean, to increase the retirement age. There will be cuts and losses of some benefits, but I believe that Sen. Packwood is on exactly the right track."
--CNN's Crossfire, Feb. 28, 1995
http://slate.msn.com/id/2086804/

Here we have Dean on the record as supporting raising the retirement age.

Russert: ...calling for that, and this is what Howard Dean said. "The way to balance the budget, Dean said, is for Congress to cut Social Security, move the retirement age to 70, cut defense, Medicare and veterans pensions, while the states cut almost everything else. 'It would be tough but we could do it,' he said."
Dean: Well, we fortunately don't have to do that now.
Russert: We have a $500 billion deficit.
Dean: But you don't have to cut Social Security to do that.
Russert: But why did you have to do it back then?
Dean: Well, because that was the middle of--I mean, I don't recall saying that, but I'm sure I did
--Meet the Press, June 22, 2003
http://stacks.msnbc.com/news/912159.asp

Here we have Dean being reminded, and acknowledging, on national TV on June 22 that he did hold this position.

"I have never favored Social Security retirement at the age of 70, nor do I favor one of 68."
--AFL-CIO Democratic presidential candidate forum, Aug. 5, 2003
http://slate.msn.com/id/2086804/

Here we have Dean denying on national TV on August 5 that he ever held that position.

Dean lies on national TV about his own record and positions, yet you trust him? Why?

[Speck Tater]

56. One thing Dean bashers will have to get used to...

...refering to him as President Dean.

It is inevitable and everyone might as well get used to it.

[CordeliaB]

57. who's voting:

just democrats or democrats, middlers, and republicans? I think this will really make a difference as to whether or not we're referring to him as President or not. How will Dean make his policies appeal to those middle-of-the-roaders?

[Feanorcurufinwe]

58. Inevitable? Tell that to President Dewey.

[mzmolly]

62. Nah, I'll tell it to President Dean.

:hi:

[Feanorcurufinwe]

63. Maybe what you should really do is listen to George Santayana.

"Those who cannot learn from history are doomed to repeat it."

[AWD]

65. This thread is funny

To me it looks like this

Comment
Ignored
Response
Ignored
Response
Ignored
Response
Ignored
Response
Ignored

etc......

It's just so funny to see from this angle and try to figure out what the angry pack of ignored DUers are spinning desperately today.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

66. LOL.

Me, too.


Given the post, I could probably pen a pretty accurate facsimile of what is "ignored."

[Feanorcurufinwe]

67. Really? let's see you try -- lol

[Feanorcurufinwe]

68. NIce to see you have a sense of humor.

Although it reminds me somewhat of someone sticking their fingers in their ears and yelling: "I CAN'T HEAR YOU" and then laughing about it.

[AP]

72. The city house was a second home, right? Dean grew up in a big house...

...on Long Island.

It's sort of misleading to pretend that and $8000 apartment is sign of being middle class, when you're from a super wealthy family and have a big estate on Long Island as your primary home.

[dsc]

74. No houses on the Hamptons are usually second homes

clearly the CSpan repoter thought the apartment was his home, clearly his response indicated he thought it was, and every single profile I have seen assumed the same thing. Care to provide a link?