Who's the meanest of them all? (salon.com)

[killbotfactory]

Nice article about Dean's "negative" ads.

Howard Dean's Democratic rivals cry foul when he criticizes their policies. His sin? Doing so openly, on TV, rather than behind their backs

Oct. 27, 2003 | The television commercials come off as somewhere between somber and sedating. Former Vermont Gov. Howard Dean, dressed in a sweater and standing in what appears to be a park, looks straight into the camera and speaks calmly -- about health insurance and prescription drugs in one ad, in another about the war on Iraq. He refers to "my opponents." He says they failed to deliver prescription drug benefits to seniors. He says "the best" they can do about the war is ask questions that they should have asked before voting to authorize George W. Bush to invade Iraq. And then he describes what he has done and what he has said about prescription drugs and the war on Iraq.

That's it. No names, no name-calling, no personal attacks on anyone.

But when John Kerry's campaign staffers first saw the ads last week, they were all but apoplectic. "Dean goes negative," campaign staffers alerted reporters in an e-mail sent the day the ads first appeared. "Dean attacks fellow Democrats," they said in another. Kerry's campaign manager told the Washington Post that Dean must be desperate, that his campaign staff must see "something alarming" in their polls.

<...>

As Dean has gained ground in Kerry's backyard -- a Zogby poll released Friday shows Dean leading Kerry by 23 percentage points in New Hampshire -- the Kerry campaign has flooded the e-mail in boxes of political reporters and editors with ad hominen attacks that far out-nasty anything in Dean's new TV spots.

http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2003/10/27/dean_criticism/?ref=http://images.salon.com/src/ads/tfk/page2.html

[blm]

1. Ha...yet they missed "Bushlite" during the debate last night?

Why don't they just shove themselves so far up Dean's butt that even Frank Luntz couldn't find them?

[Jim Sagle]

2. "Bushlite" is NOT a PERSONAL attack.

You may think it's UNFAIR or RUDE or whatever, but it's a POLITICAL attack. An asshole comment like "Kerry looks French" is PERSONAL, "Bushlite" is POLITICAL.

Got it?

[blm]

3. It's a lie. Dean is closer to Bush on the issues than Kerry is.

Dean is a centrist. Kerry is a liberal.

[Jim Sagle]

4. Not a lie, but a matter of opinion.

Bute definitely POLITICAL, NOT personal.

[abelenkpe]

5. hmmmm

I haven't seen these ads by Dean, so it is difficult to judge whether or not the are negative. However, after watching the most recent debate I felt that Kerry spent a lot of his time attacking Dean rather than focusing on answering the questions he was asked. Was it primarily in retaliation for these ads?. It was a real turn off. I'd be interested in knowing why you feel that Dean is more of a centrist and not a liberal? Personally, the candidate that I felt was the best speaker was Sharpton, followed by Dean. But then it wouldn't be wise to choose a candidate based on entertainment value alone, would it?


(is there no spell check on this board?)

[pruner]

6. take a look

New Hampshire ad

windows: http://www.howarddean.tv/v2/streaming_pages/wmp/ad-iraq_256k.asp

quicktime: http://www.howarddean.tv/v2/streaming_pages/qt/ad-iraq_256k.asp


Iowa ad

windows: http://www.howarddean.tv/v2/streaming_pages/wmp/didit_256k.asp

quicktime: http://www.howarddean.tv/v2/streaming_pages/qt/didit_256k.asp

[abelenkpe]

7. thanks!

I don't really feel those ads are exactly negative. To me a negative ad involves name calling, an effort to demean or vilify another person or the copious use of spin. For those candidates who are concerned about their voting record on the Iraq issue there is an acceptable answer: "We were wrong, we were mislead by the current administration, we regret our decision, and we will be vigilant in maintaining that it will never happen again."

I still want to know how each of the candidates feel about PNAC and their agenda. When will someone ask that question?

Of course, I also want to know who sold that stock in United and American airlines on 9/10....but whatever.

[mandyky]

9. No, Dean is a populist

He honestly cannot be labeled because he takes each issue on its merits. He is not an ideologue, centrist or liberal.

[blm]

10. When did he become a populist?

Last February.

Before that he was a centrist who scorned liberals and populist rhetoric. Now he is a parasite feeding off them.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

11. And Kerry used to be a liberal.

Then he started supporting BushWars and Ashcroftian assaults on our liberties. I guess people change.



Another question: You're always promoting Kerry's anti-BFEE credentials, so I have a question for you. Hasn't the BFEE risen to the pinnacle of it's evil under the Senate tenure of one John Forbes Kerry? It's impossible to argue that the BFEE isn't at it's apogee right this very second! If that isn't effective crusading, I don't know what is. :eyes:


I'm voting for the "parasite." Maybe his message will "infect" the body politic.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

14. And Dean used to be a liberal... oh that's right, no he never was liberal

or honest.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

15. The word isn't 'populist', it's 'demagogue'.

[polpilot]

16. 'Bush-lite' is ONLY effective if one is TRULY 'Bush-lite'.

Dean '04...

[Feanorcurufinwe]

8. It's pretty simple really. You don't have to be a rocket scientist

to understand the difference between positive and negative advertising.

In positive advertising, you talk about your good points.

In negative advertising, you talk about your opponent's bad points - or at least, your version of their bad points.

[killbotfactory]

12. What do you call it if you do both?

neutral advertising?

[Feanorcurufinwe]

13. Umm, you would call it, both positive and negative advertising.

You really didn't need me to tell you that did you?