Kucinich's Green Party endorsement called into question

[pruner]

ENDORSED OR NOT ENDORSED?

Controversy over Kucinich’s weekend endorsement from the New Hampshire Green Party. It’s rankled the national party, who issued a release saying, “The endorsement decision reportedly took place at a meeting in a coffee shop that was attended by six individuals.” Noting that the New Hampshire arm is not recognized by the national group, they continued, “Green Party officials wish to clarify that the half-dozen individuals responsible for the news release in question are not affiliated with the Green Party of the United States.” The Greens will hold their own nominating convention for a presidential candidate in Milwaukee in June 2004. Ralph Nader has said he will make a decision on a bid by the end of this year.

http://www.msnbc.com/news/952444.asp#October30

[cosmicdot]

1. yawn

I've seen that done so much ... I thought I'd give it a whirl.

[Code_Name_D]

2. I hate it when I am right.

:mad:
It looks like the greenes need to take back there party too.

[Name removed]

3. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[pruner]

4. I think the national party disavowing a 6 person endorsement is news

you have the right to disagree.

[diamondsoul]

11. I don't have a problem with that.

What I do have a problem with is your perpetual insults toward Kucinich and others.

As to the national Green Party disavowing this endorsement, I have to wonder if they're taking a page from the DLC and DNC and just will refuse to acknowledge how many of their numbers have chosen to back Kucinich.

[pruner]

13. I haven't insulted Kucinich (or anyone else) in this thread

therefore, your use of the word "perpetual" is inaccurate.

[diamondsoul]

39. So it's not an "insult" to suggest-

the endorsement of a segment of the green party is ngeligable because of its size? Hmmm, well guess I'm funny about that then. That's how I view it. It's petty, imho.

[Mairead]

36. Especially since 'the national party' as such doesn't exist

'The Green Party' is actually the confederation of state Green Parties, so it's not clear to me just who is disavowing this endorsement, or on what authority.

[ajacobson]

37. In the Interest of Accuracy

The Green Party of the United States National Committee is a FEC recognized national political party committee. You would be correct in 2000 that FEC recognition had not yet been granted. There is a rump group called Greens/Green Party USA, which warrants no attention at all. GPUS does not have an accredited affiliate in New Hampshire, so there is no meaningful "New Hampshire Green Party" to grant an endorsement.

www.gpus.org

[Mairead]

38. Thanks for the correction.

I hope you'll agree that it's largely a technical artifact of US election laws, though, and not a reflection of the internal reality, since one of the 10 principles is decentralisation.

Apropos of there being no NH Party, that's a rather dismaying thought, since once upon a time one could create a state Green party by simply declaring it into existence. I'd be interested to know when that stopped working--if it did--and why.

[Duder]

5. Would he?

<...>

“I certainly understand why many in my party voted for the Green Party in the past,” Kucinich told a small gathering of reporters and staff a Coffee Mill in Concord . “Many progressives have felt they were being pushed out, but I want to bring them back in.”

Asked if he would seek or accept the Green Party nomination if he doesn’t get the Democratic Party nomination, Kucinich demurred.

“I am running as a Democrat and I want to change our party,” Kucinich said.

He didn’t, however, say no.

Chichester said that he would like to see Kucinich as a Green Party candidate.

“Why not? He campaigns on the issues we believe strongly in,” Chichester said.

Earlier in the year, Nader met with Kucinich and said that if Kucinich were to win the Democratic Party nomination he wouldn’t run again in 2004.

http://www.politicsnh.com/archives/pindell/2003/september/10_27green.shtml

[MrSoundAndVision]

14. It's time for third party supporters to unite with their

progressive Democratic brothers and sisters and take over the Democratic party and the country! I'm a socialist. I was THIS|CLOSE to switching to the Social Equality Party when I stumbled open Kucinich. The Green Party platform was solid in 2000, it's solid today, and now their leader has support just as mine has. Green principles are correct, socialist principles are correct, but here we have a candidate willing to bring us together and take this country back.

For a little more honesty here, you know what else annoys me, Dean supporters and their one liners. SPEAK and be HEARD.

[Duder]

26. Then you'll be interested in a socialist perspective...

'Democrat Dennis Kucinich adopts a superficially more militant antiwar stance, calling for immediate withdrawal of American troops from Iraq. But in advocating a UN peacekeeping force to replace US troops, Kucinich simply proposes to substitute one form of colonial-style rule for another. It is no more "humanitarian" for Iraqis to be shot down by Turkish or Pakistani troops than by American or British forces.'

http://www.wsws.org/articles/2003/oct2003/iraq-o24.pdf

[MrSoundAndVision]

29. ACTUALLY, AND I'LL MAKE SURE YOU GET THIS

Cause its been a while since you posted.

I read that article too, and have attempted to begin a conversation with the wsws about it's content, but haven't received a reply when I'm not donating money to those people. They don't accept criticism well, oh well, they are mostly Brits who don't understand the American worker today: DVD players, drugs, Britney Spears. Anyway, beyond the scope of this post.

What the WSWS says isn't absolute truth. The author of that article and other articles there are just blindly supporting the SEP. KUCINICH is a SOCIALIST. He just isn't singing there rant at the end of each of their article: oh, that's only accomplished with a mobilization of the working class... The working class in England is literate, not so here.

So, Kucinich is a socialist who doesn't commit political suicide, who is more interested in fixing this country, then being the smartest clod on the block.

[Mairead]

33. You might be right about it being 'a' socialist perspective

Though they seem more doctrinaire commies than socialist, actually. To me, at least. I don't know of many 'socialists' except the Marxists and the Trots who still use 19th c. coded speech, or can remain in a permanent state of high dudgeon. It seems a little fakey to me. Most socialists only want to democratise things so that more people can enjoy life.

[MrSoundAndVision]

6. God I hate marijuana...

not the way it makes me feel (I'm from KY), just that so many users think it is some major indicator of political freedom, or profound political thought. I mean, yes, in a free society, you could get high all you want and not be seen like a rebel. But is that what you want? No.

How about this as an issue: Liberian rebels this summer were using rape as a weapon against the locals and then cutting the breasts off of the victims. How about fixing Africa being an indicator of a free society (by the U.S. deeming this a worthy cause of a free society: the proliferation of freedom)?

[pruner]

7. ummm…

:wtf:

[diamondsoul]

9. Um...The reference to the "hemp plant"

wasn't necessarily an indication I think anyone on this thread is a heavy user of marijuana. Just a sarcastic reference to frequent posts insulting candidates other than Howard Dean and Pruner's avatar of preference.

Curious aside from that why the rant about marijunana and nothing to the subject of the thread?

[MrSoundAndVision]

10. Well because I don't think it's sarcasm...

and it does annoy me, and the articles I read on Green Party endorsement OBVIOUSLY weren't implying that the National Green Party was endorsing Kucinich. Rather I gathered that from http://www.kucinich.us , a local NH Green Affiliation was endorsing Kucinich, some town in Michigan's Green Party was endorsing Kucinich, and that Ralph Nader would endorse Kucinich IF he wins the nomination.

Pruner annoys me. And I'm honest about that. You don't hear me showing you how much I love martinis and how if everyone had martinis the world may be more free do you? Take that image off. if you wish to be taken seriously.

[MercutioATC]

18. But the world WOULD be more free if everyone had martinis!

Or at least they wouldn't care as much...


Seriously, you're taking issue with the avatar? I'm not a supporter or recreational marijuana use nor do I actively support its legalization, but I don't think I view posters who use the avatar any differently.

[MrSoundAndVision]

20. I swear on my fifth martini that...

you're right.

Everyone, have a martini: Ice, 1 shot vodka or gin, 1/2 shot dry vermouth, olive on a stick, stir. Go to http://www.kucinich.us , get fired up and ready to change the world, sweat, enjoy, make another. Repeat.

[MercutioATC]

22. See, now THAT'S a campaign!

:toast:

[MrSoundAndVision]

24. That's my life right now...

mixed with playing with my son, seeking a job, and kissing my wife, and trying to convince people here to just click http://www.kucinich.us and help me provide martinis to everyone along with an education and healthcare and reasons not to kill everyone.

And I must say I enjoy it.

[Name removed]

25. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[MrSoundAndVision]

28. I'm having no problem with you....

and I like being drunk, it makes me sexy. So, oh I don't know, so what? At least I'm inspired. At least I'm happy. You don't know WHY I drink martinis. I think I'm just one of those drinkers who is blessed with really enjoying it and never overdoing it.

[Padraig18]

32. Wayyyyyyyyyyyy too wet!

Swirl that vermouth around the inside of a frosted glass and then toss it before adding the gin. Can we say 'dry'? :P

[Name removed]

12. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[MrSoundAndVision]

16. Was that Jerry Garcia?

And I quit. I'm too serious for pot culture. And if it didn't make sense, then "It's all good", or "It's cool" or whatever. "Right On"

[Egnever]

17. Yup its the big bear himself.

God I wish he were still here.

[MrSoundAndVision]

19. Yeah then everything would be GREAT huh

My wife told me to say: Yeah I wish Chris Farley was still here but he was just a fat cokehead.

For God's sake, listen to some music with activity. Ever heard of Django Reinhardt?

[Egnever]

23. Woa you hate Jerry Garcia?

and cant tolerate other peoples taste in music?

Ever been anywhere near a Dead show?

Tell your wife I said I wish chris farley was still here too and ask her what difference his being a cokehad made in her life?

[MrSoundAndVision]

27. No I don't hate JG..

He and his band have always seemed a little boring to me though. Seemed to me that people's decision to like the Dead was more social than artistic. Ever hear some good Herbie Hancock? Oh my god, you say byebye to the GDead as I did Led Zeppelin once you hear him rip the keys apart. Check out Herbie Hancock and the Headhunters. Or email me at [e-mail] and I'll see if I can help you.

I invite your challenge (musically).

[Egnever]

30. Glad to hear it

Your right Dead shows were all about the social experiance. However JG was a great guitarist. The great thing about the dead ws every show was different sometimes it was just ok but sometimes it was amazing. Without Jerry thought they are just a mediocre band. If you caght jerry when he was on they were an incredible band.

as far as your music challenge goes your tastes are way too old for me.

While I do like older music a lot I tend to keep my listening fresher. repetition bores me. Love hotel california for instance, couldnt care less if I ever hear it again.

If you want to talk about someone not so close to collecting SS we can do that.

[MrSoundAndVision]

31. Recently I've been into ...

http://www.somafm.com and their various streams. How about Brian Eno and Robert Fripp? They're old, but they kick ass. Are you 13 or something? Artistic music progress isn't linear in modern music. Email me, I have things you need to hear.

[e-mail]

[Mairead]

34. er, where that that come from?

It seems somewhat of a non-sequitur. Did I miss something?

[w4rma]

8. The Green Party is *worthless*, IMHO. (n/t)

[Egnever]

15. I think they are great!

I certainly dont agree with them on everything but I respect thier right to have a voice.

Kucinich fits them well IMHO. In fact I think possibly the smartest thing he could possibly do right now is switch to green. They would welcome him with open arms from the sounds of things and it would expand his base considerably. If he really wants to be president this is his best hope IMHO cause he sure as hell isnt going to get the attention he needs to get there in the dem party.

It would split the vote and suck when it came time for bush but its Denis's best chance IMHO to get to the white house.

[dsc]

21. I will say this here and now

If Kucinich wins the nomination Nader will find some excuse to run anyhow. My guess is he would use abortion but trust me on this he would invent one. This is no slam on Kucinch but Nader is ego run amok and he will run no matter what.

[peaceandjustice]

35. Nader, abortion, and I once really wanted Dennis Kucinich to run

How do you think Ralph Nader could use abortion as his wedge to run if Dennis Kucinich gets the nomination? Nader and Kucinich are in many ways similar on abortion. Both are nominally pro-choice. Both have been criticized by reproductive rights activists. Dennis for his years of being anti-choice before he switched positions about a year before he began running for President in earnest. Ralph for rolling his eyes, so to speak, at reproductive rights and for that matter gay rights, which he lumped together as "gonadal politics" and considered unimportant compared to work for fair trade and consumer and worker protection...a position that I digress to point out DK supporters on this forum have taken too.

So I once, as a 2000 Nader voter, wanted DK to run. Not that I would've voted for him. I wanted him to run after Katha Pollitt and others basically told anti-death penalty, pro-fair trade activists to suck it up and vote for Gore because he'd be so much better than Bush on reproductive rights. I wanted to see them put in the same position, with an anti-death penalty, pro-workers rights candidate who enraged their sense of justice on an issue dear to them. I wanted to see if they could "suck it up" or if they would've walked and gone for a third-party nominee.

Of course when Dennis switched position, the timing of which will always be suspicious to me, it made that social laboratory experiment moot.

[dsc]

40. I never claimed that one of Nader's virtues

was consistancy. I didn't say he could consistently do this just that he would do this.