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Tom Rinaldo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-31-03 11:25 AM
Original message
Why do you support your candidate? Give it your best shot!
Go ahead, make the case for your candidate, whoever that might be.

Here is why I am backing Wesley Clark for President. First because America can not afford a less than brilliant leader, it is a very complex and dangerous world right now and the stakes could not be higher. We need the absolute best talent this country can offer for President. Wes Clark has mastered every endeavor he has tackled. Time and time again, Clark rises to the occasion. Read about his personal history if you have any doubts on this. We can pretend we are voting for policy positions and/or a platform, but the only thing we will truly decide on is the person we will place in office. For me it is more important to pick the best person for the job, than the most finely reasoned or original policy initiative. Sometimes the most critical position is the one that will need to be taken on an issue that hasn’t yet fully surfaced. 9/11 and the proper response to dealing with it was not a campaign issue in the 2000 election. Neither was job loss. Pick the best leader and fight for the best program, that’s honestly how I see it. Here is why I feel Wes Clark is the best leader now for America.

We need someone who understands that it is always the soldiers who win a war, not a privileged elite. The welfare of our nation is dependent on the welfare of our average citizens. Clark truly understands that. The military functions with that understanding more so than any other major institution in America. Be all that you can be is an Army slogan, but it is not just a cliché. Leave no one behind is actually practiced on the fields of battle at high risk and at great cost. Compare that to typical corporate values. And it's personal for Clark, not just a sound bite. He was awarded medals for his courage in Viet Nam, and he risked his life again, under combat conditions, in Yugoslavia trying to save the lives of fellow Americans who died in a crash on a mountain road. We need a President who asks what he can do for his country, not what his country can do for him. With his obvious abilities and capacity for accomplishment, Clark could have devoted his life to self enrichment; instead he devoted it to defending his nation.

The institution Wesley Clark served in, the U.S. Army, prides itself on discipline, following through and following orders. These are the values and priorities that conservatively oriented people understand and respect. Yet Clark is the rare exception, the one who takes what is best from inside a box and then transcends the box. I have never heard anyone more passionate in the defense of the First Amendment than Wesley Clark. He doesn't semi dismissively call dissent our right as Americans, he calls it our obligation, essential to maintaining the democratic life of our nation. And because of his service to the nation in the military, many people are open to listening to him say it who would never listen otherwise. Other candidates, like Kerry, might be able to partially neutralize the "patriotism" advantage that Republicans tend to have when they routinely monopolize the flag, but Clark goes much further. He redefines patriotism in a fundamental way so that suddenly it's those who stifle and distort open and honest debate who are putting our country at risk, not those who seek honest debate on important questions.

Electing Clark is about much more than defeating George Bush, (not that more is needed). It is about restoring the basic contract between citizens and their government to the ideals we were taught in school. Government exists to serve the people, not enrich the powerful. Citizens have the right to the information they need to inform their decisions, not government having the power to suppress information that makes their governing more difficult. It is precisely Clark's outsider status to the political process, I feel, that has preserved his idealism regarding it. We know he can negotiate complex issues, we saw that in the Balkans, but Clark has never comprised his core civic values. As a result I think he would govern as one of the least corruptible Presidents in American history. Wesley Clark has served his country honorably and kept his personal commitments. He truly believes in the concept of personal accountability. I saw him speak on this, it isn't a sound bite, that's who he is.

Then, after the above, you can move onto the fact that Wesley Clark is already a known player on the international stage, who respects international institutions and the importance of having allies. Very little if any on the job training will be needed. After 3 years in office Bush is nowhere near as adept at mastering the essential international skills that Clark has already mastered. Domestically I think it is ultimately an advantage to the American people that Clark entered this race without a truck load of finely detailed domestic policy initiatives. I have learned enough about him to feel confident in his overall social priorities. Clark is freest to seek the best ideas available to confront the problems facing the nation, and use the ones that fit best. He isn't locked into unwieldy positions by virtue of prior stands and unholy political alliances made. Having said that I feel fine about almost all of the positions Clark has taken. He is a progressive Democrat who fought for affirmative action. He strongly believes the tax burden should fall lightest on those least able to bear it. He is firmly pro choice. He calls the U.S. Constitution and the environment the two most important legacies we can leave behind for the generations that will succeed us. You can find out more about his policy positions at his official campaign web site, clark04.com so I won’t use more space here.

You will notice that I will now only barely touch on the supposed pragmatic reason why Wes Clark should be nominated, his electability. Wes Clark can neutralize Bush’s super patriotic fog machine, he can appeal to independents and Republicans of integrity, and he can be competitive in Southern states, forcing Bush to allocate campaign resources, depriving his of a free ride. Bush will be put on the defensive by Clark, forced to fight for votes from even white male southerners and Veterans. That’s all I will say about voting for Clark for pragmatic reasons, because I don’t believe Clark is the pragmatic choice, I think he’s the right choice.

I know some progressives within the Democratic Party are simply uncomfortable about voting for a General for President. To which I simply say, get over it. It likely would have been among my proudest moments as an American had our Armed Forces intervened in Rwanda to stop the genocide that resulted in the death of millions. General Clark strongly advocated for U.S. military involvement in Rwanda at the time but failed to win the support of the Pentagon for what was an inherently humanitarian mission. Kosovo was a just war, and Clark advocated that it be fought in a manner that would lessen the danger to civilians even if it put U.S. forces at somewhat greater risk. Again he was over ruled on that matter. In a world where we must have a military, I would welcome Clark as its Commander in Chief.

In short I trust Wes Clark to always realize that real war is hell, to be avoided whenever rationally possible, and that his working definition of the special interest group he is beholden to is simply the American public. I trust in his ability to understand complex situations, and his willingness to work hard to get things right. I trust in his sense of what America is, and what it should be. I think Wesley Clark has the right character, and the right experience, to lead our country now. Others have said this about him and I think it is absolutely true: Wes Clark, All Patriot, No Act.
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La_Serpiente Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-31-03 11:29 AM
Response to Original message
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OBrien Donating Member (243 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-31-03 11:55 AM
Response to Original message
2. He's the man!
I totally agree with everything you said. He CAN beat Bush and be a great Presidebt to boot.
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No More Shrub Donating Member (44 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-31-03 11:58 AM
Response to Original message
3. Hopefull someone will take up you challange
I'm not sure who to vote for yet, I'm hopeing someone here can convince me to vote for their man.
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Tom Rinaldo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-31-03 11:04 PM
Response to Reply #3
6. Challange still open
As much as I like finding other Clark supporters here, I would like to see others express why they support differnet candidates here also. I would like to read positive statements about why people really believe in their guy (or gal). I'm sick of reading about Democratic candidates, and their supporters, attacking each other.
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democratreformed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-31-03 12:20 PM
Response to Original message
4. Clark is my man
I started studying about Wesley Clark about six months ago. One of the first things I did was join his "Leadership for America" forum. That was in June. I can't even begin to describe the many brilliant and invigorating conversations that took place on that board. To me, that board demonstrated one thing that I feel very strongly about - NONE of the issues that are so important today can be solved easily. NONE of them can be answered with a black and white answer. Any issue has many different facets that must be looked at. One person's answer many be another person's doom. (Does any of this make sense). No single answere to any problem will be the perferct answer for every single person.

I believe the best leader for our current time will be one who takes the time to study each issue and come up with the best possible solution - not just a quick and easy fix. Again, that solution will not always be the BEST for every single person, but would, hopefully, be the BEST possible for Americans as a whole. I believe the person currently running who best fits this description is Wesley Clark.

That is one reason why I have not joined others who were crying out for quick position statements on current issues. I think the time General Clark is taking to form his positions shows that he is really studying all aspects to come up with a good solution (or, at least, a beginning to the solution - many problems just can't be solved that quickly).

Another reason that I support General Clark is because he is well respected in other countries. I believe that will be a big plus for our country when we begin trying to repair our broken alliances and win back our friends. I also feel like doing these two things are going to be absolutely crucial to our efforts in Iraq. We have many soldiers from our area who just left. It breaks my heart. I am hoping against hope for a leader who can gain some real alliances and get many of our soldiers back home safe.

These are just a couple of the reasons I support Wesley Clark. There are many others.
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democratreformed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-05-03 10:30 PM
Response to Reply #4
20. I know you want to hear about other candidates
but I have to add one more reason why I support Clark.

General Clark does have experience in diplomacy and working for peace. He does have experience helping to bring peace to a war-torn region. He does already have the respect of many world leaders. It may sound strange saying that a former soldier has experience working for peace, but, I think, in all honesty, any soldier would rather have peace than war.

We have many soldiers who are currently serving in a war-torn area. The best hope for those soldiers and the ones who will go over there in the future is General Wesley Clark. I believe that with all my heart.
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TexasPatriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-31-03 01:37 PM
Response to Original message
5. I'd say clark
http://www.cnn.com/POLLSERVER/results/6110.content.html

they've been running that poll for a month now - but it pretty much spells it out. But - not for the reasons a lot of people have. I want to win - sure - but I want coat tails. I want to embarrass that chimp - shelve the policies of the last 4 years - push the pubs out onto the fringe - and start fixing this country. Now, I'd like Clark even if he were likely to lose - because there's a gravitas about him that says that he'd be ok running the country (something I just dont get from the other candidates). But crushing pubs at the local level - in judgeships and city councils - that's what I want.
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Rhiannon12866 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-02-03 03:35 PM
Response to Original message
7. That was a very convincing treatise, Tom
The only reservation I have about Clark is his lack of experience in the political world. I would be afraid this would work to his disadvantage if he was elected. I have liked what he has been saying, but he has had trouble holding his own in the debates against more experienced candidates.:shrug:

My idealogical favorite is Dennis Kucinich. He was against the war with Iraq from the beginning and has not backed off, no matter what criticisms have come his way. He wants to establish a cabinet level position of Secretary of Peace, which sounds great to me after seeing what damage having a warmonger in the White House can inflict on the world and, certainly, our country. Unfortunately, I don't think Dennis has the popular support to pull off getting elected.:-(

The one candidate who I think could beat Bush* is Dick Gephardt. He has the experience, having served for 27 years in the House, and, because of his leadership position, is used to working with the opposition. People here keep bringing up his appearance in the Rose Garden with Bush*, but they aren't listening to what the man is saying. He made a bargain with Bush*. He agreed to support the war, after checking out the intelligence himself, if Bush* agreed to go the diplomatic route, through the U.N. Gep held up his end of the bargain while Bush* did not. That's one reason why Gep is so angry and is going after Bush* as he has been. I think a Gephardt-Graham ticket could succeed. This would deliver the labor vote, the Midwest and the South. But this is just my opinion.:shrug:
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Tom Rinaldo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-02-03 04:07 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. Gephardt beating Bush
I will be honest with you. I have a basic working knowledge of Gephardt and his positons, but not much more than that. I start out with a bias against him that I am sure I would shake off if he wins the nomination. That bias is the 2002 Elections and the inability of National Democratic leaders to take on Bush on a range of issues forcefully enough. I'm sure Gephardt was trying but I didn't like the overall results, didn't at the time either. That's what fueled Dean's rise, almost as much as his opposition to going into Iraq.

From what I know I can support Gephardt on many issues, but outside of the hard won loyalty given him by many in Unions, I don't see much passion in Democrats for Gephardt. Maybe that will change if he wins in Iowa. Overall I admit that my knock against him is shallow; he is far from being a fresh face. I fear Bush could put him on the defensive as much as Gephardt could to Bush.

I am glad Dennis Kucinich has built himself a following and increased overall National recognition. His voice will now be among those heard in National debates. I don't think he stands a chance of getting the nomination though. If I felt he was competitive I would feel it necessary to make more of a case as to why I prefer Clark to him, but as it is I will just say that Dennis has my respect.

As to Clark's political inexperience, some of that is to his advantage as it positions him as "not a regular politician" which has some benefits, and he will be given a little slack for that. Still I agree it has cost his also. His political reflexs aren't always swift enough though they inevitably end up being right when they emerge (in my opinion). I think he is learning though, and relatively fast. He isn't long winded but he isn't always snappy either. He is not ideally suited to a 9 person debate format where you get only 60 seconds to both defend yourself against Hugh Sheldon slurs as well accusations that you were inconsistent in your stance vis a vis going to war against Iraq. Even In a 3 or 4 person debate format I supect he would be vastly improved.

If he becomes the nominee of course, he will have greater opportunities to define himself to the public, and to explain his positions, through various formats more conducive to his thoughtful nature. I do think his sound bites are improving and his comfort level as a politician is rising.
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Rhiannon12866 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-05-03 05:30 PM
Response to Reply #8
14. I also think Gephardt has more centrist appeal than many
of the candidates, which will be imperative to attract those voters who are just sick of Bush* and his unilateral nonsense. This could also be said for Clark, I guess, since he is a war hero and Bush* was a deserter. I really don't know that much yet about Clark's policies. As I said, I have liked what he has had to say, but I took that SelectSmart test that matches your views with the candidates. I matched 100% with Kucinich, but Clark came in dead last for me, behind even Bush* and Lyndon LaRouche! Maybe I should take it again when his positions become better known. Gephardt, on the other hand, is on-message and is a known quantity.:shrug:
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DrFunkenstein Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-02-03 04:42 PM
Response to Original message
9. Kerry Is The Man (Although Clark Is Cool In My Book)
A few reasons I think Kerry's the chosen one.

1. He's never accepted PAC money.
2. His record fighting corporate welfare and crime is amazing.
3. His record on the environment is the best.
4. His health care plan is catchy and doable.
5. He nearly impeached Reagan before they pulled him out.
6. He led officer protests against civilian deaths even before he won his many, many awards for valor.
7. He chaired the Terrorism Committee going back 15 years (and wrote a book on the subject).
8. His tax breaks are politically and economically smart (Krugman agrees).
9. He's a bridge-builder with people of different ideologies.
10. The more you learn about him, the more you realize that he's a thoroughly decent guy.

I could run off 30 more, but it's Sunday.
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Tom Rinaldo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-03-03 12:36 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. #5 & #6 on our list
Would love to hear more about those, and if you find the time, feel free to add to your list.
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Tom Rinaldo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-03-03 01:52 PM
Response to Reply #10
12. Meant to say "your", not "our" list
I think it was a typo. Interesting that the only difference between your and our is Y (why?). Too deep for me to ponder lol.
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-05-03 09:10 PM
Response to Reply #10
16. You don't know about BCCI and IranContra?
Kerry is the one who investigated them and discovered all the covert dealings. He's the one who exposed Ollie North. He also discovered the CIA drugrunning linked to these covert operations.
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JohnKleeb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-05-03 09:18 PM
Response to Reply #16
17. what about getting on Nixon's enemy list
:evilgrin:
I really do agree with the 10th part though, I am really am liking the more I hear about him.
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Pez Donating Member (522 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-06-03 05:50 PM
Response to Reply #9
22. great list! let me add one to that...
11. kerry has an amazing wife who would make a kick-ass first lady-- one of the most giving members of the world community, she would bring to the white house a sense of responsibility through volunteering and philanthropy by way of example. teresa h-k, walkin' the walk. a great role model.
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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-03-03 12:43 PM
Response to Original message
11. Clark again
simply because he believes in transparency in government, has the right skill sets, is a multilateralist, a problem solver, and all you gave as reasons.
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Tom Rinaldo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-05-03 07:32 AM
Response to Original message
13. After NH the field will start narrowing
Since no current candidate is pulling the support of anywhere near a majority of Democrats in polls, most of us will need to start looking around for someone else to back. If your choice falls out of contention, chances are you will get at most one other shot at helping determine who gets the Democratic nomination before it is all over, and that time window will likely be a short one as the field likely will narrow quickly to two candidates, and then only one. So I decided to reach back and "kick" this thread back onto page one this time only. So far Clark supporters have weighed in here, as well as a strong Kerry man. Some encouraging words about Gephardt were posted also. I would welcome and take seriously all positive arguments in favor of specific candidates. At this point I am open minded as to who I would back next if Clark fails short. I hope those who support different candidates feel the same way about it. I also hope, if you chose to post here, that the tone of your statement will predominantly be the pros concerning your choice, rather than the cons regarding other candidates, although those cons obviously are valid to a point. Let's keep the trashing elsewhere though. By the way, as if anyone cares, I will be missing in action starting now untill Monday - hectic road trip. Hopefully the Democratic party can emerge from all of this strong and united against Bush.
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Rhiannon12866 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-06-03 06:03 PM
Response to Reply #13
23. What an encouraging post
I agree with every word of it. I have my favorite candidates, as does everyone here, but would be willing to support any candidate who could depose the squatter-in-chief!:grr:
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mandyky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-05-03 09:05 PM
Response to Original message
15. Deaniac here
Dean has been first on so many things -
Praising/not distancing from Clinton
Running ads on TV
Visiting a military base
Opposing the war on lack of evidence
Broke Bill Clinton's fundraising record
Tried to break a Guiness world record for a conference call
Drawn "rock star like" crowds during the primary
Run a decentralized campaign
Run an open source internet campaign
Used the Internet to organize grassroots

Not only all the firsts but Dean inspires me, makes me feel like I am part of a community and movement, and has guts (or balls). He is the best of Clinton, JFK, Truman and RFK all at once.

Dean had my support the day I heard his DNC winter meeting speech, and I think he has the best chance to win and take our country back.
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no name no slogan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-05-03 09:49 PM
Response to Reply #15
18. slight clarification
Don't take this as an attack, but I just wanted to clarify the "open source" statement vis-a-vis his internet presence.

Dean hasn't run a completely "open source" internet campaign, in the geek-speak use of the word (as in GPL, freely available source code).

According to Netcraft, he was running his site on Windows2000/IIS 5.0 up until earlier this year. Any geek will tell you that Windows is definatly not "open source" in any sense of the word. Many an open source guru (like
However, giving credit where credit is due, the campaign did move his site to a FreeBSD box running Apache. IMHO, FreeBSD is the best damned operating system in the entire world. It's also what Apple's MacOSX was derived from (as a matter of fact, Apple hired one of FreeBSD's chief developers to help them create OSX. They knew what they were doing). :bounce:
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GreenArrow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-05-03 10:33 PM
Response to Reply #15
21. Not the first to oppose the war
Try Kucinich or Sharpton.
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no name no slogan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-05-03 10:19 PM
Response to Original message
19. Why I'm supporting Dennis Kucinich
Dennis Kucinich is the only candidate running who stands for REAL CHANGE in this country. He is also the only candidate who voted against the IRW AND the Patriot Act.

Dennis Kucinich is also the only candidate who's not afraid to TELL THE TRUTH. He doesn't shy away from his previous positions, or dismiss them by saying he "can't remember". If he changes his mind, he explains why, and levels with his constituency. He's a refreshing breath of fresh air in a race dominated by "image consultants" and soundbyte factories who seem to say anything to get the support of their present audience.

Dennis Kucinich also represents a sensible "about face" for this country. He will put working people first, before the whims of the big corporations who want to control this country. His ideas are no more "radical" than those of Reagan/Bush, who believe that the way to get more money to working people is to cut the taxes on the richest Americans. In fact, his ideas and positions are the same ones the Democrats have supported since the end of World War II: equal rights, worker protections, personal freedom, universal medical coverage and a sane national defense policy.

Dennis Kucinich was a leader in the fight against the IWR, and is the only candidate who has a workable plan to get the US out of the Iraq quagmire. Turn over the administration of the country to the UN and a truly multinational peacekeeping force, and bring our soldiers home.

Dennis Kucinich is the only candidate who will not only put an end to useless Pentagon programs like "Star Wars", but he'll cut the bloated Pentagon budget by 1/8, and use the money to rebuild our crumbling schools and infrastructure and set up a cabinet-level Department of Peace.

He's the only candidate who believes that PEACE should be an organizing principle for this nation, which has relied on "might makes right" for far too long as a foreign and domestic policy, to disastrous consequences both here and abroad. By strengthening our position as a peacemaker in the world, we'll truly have "National Security"-- the kind that no amount of surveilence, weapons or constitutional rights violations can buy.

He is also the only one presenting a truly WORKABLE solution for universal healthcare. His plan is elegant in its simplicity, and will pay for itself in cost savings on administration alone. We will not only get better medical care than what we receive now, but we'll even pay less for it!

Dennis Kucinich is also the only candidate to endorse gay marriage. Although all the Democrats support "civil unions" in some way (usually leaving it up to the states, like civil rights protection in the south before the 60s), only Dennis Kucinich supports FULL FEDERAL PROTECTIONS AND RIGHTS for gay and lesbian couples-- the same rights enjoyed by millions of married couples across the country. This eliminates the problem of the patchwork of state laws sanctioning "civil unions" while ensuring equal rights for ALL, no matter where they live in the US.

Dennis Kucinich's are hardly idealistic as most would tell you-- they are practical, workable solutions that actually address the root problems in our country-- not just the peripheral symptoms of what's ailing this country today.

I've told the tale numerous times, so I won't bore you with the details, but the reason I became a Democrat back in 1987 was Paul Wellstone. I met him as a college student when he spoke at my campus, and helped us organize a local campaign. I quit party politics in the 1990s after Clinton caved to the right-wing on some very important core Democratic issues. I came back to the party last year, after Paul Wellstone's tragic death. I'm staying in the party because of Dennis Kucinich, and his vision and values.

Paul Wellstone was the reason I joined the Democrats. Dennis Kucinich is the reason why I came back to the Democrats.



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Rhiannon12866 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-06-03 06:59 PM
Response to Reply #19
25. What a great post and a fitting tribute to a great candidate
Thanks for stating his positions so very well. Dennis Kucinich is my first choice among the candidates.:-)
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mdmc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-06-03 06:25 PM
Response to Original message
24. I support Dean b/c
he stood up against the doctrine of preemption.

He has also created a great movement, DFA

The otherones are cool, and I'd vote for any one of them.
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