Dean — so far — seems to have no Achilles heel

[Fleshdancer]

http://www.usatoday.com/news/opinion/columnist/shapiro/2003-12-02-hype_x.htm

Blessed with money and momentum, Howard Dean has become a modern-day Achilles dominating the Democratic presidential race. His increasingly desperate rivals are certain that Dean has a hidden weakness. But like the destined-for-defeat Trojans on the Homeric battlefields, they can't seem to find it.
Still, if history is any guide, sooner or later an arrow will pierce Dean's heel. The wound may not prove to be politically fatal, since the parallels with Achilles only carry us so far.

These forebodings are not designed to dismiss Dean's prospects. Rather, they reflect a simple truth about presidential politics: No modern candidate has won a contested nomination without enduring a few difficult weeks when his hero's halo was badly dented and his dreams of victory seemed a cruel mirage.

Think of Bill Clinton in 1992 battling a sex scandal and trying to explain away a duplicitous draft letter. Or Bob Dole in 1996 enduring the indignity of losing the New Hampshire primary to right-wing firebrand Pat Buchanan. Last time around, George W. Bush had everything going for him but was almost derailed by a Republican maverick named John McCain.

[Lorien]

1. Well, we do need

a teflon candidate to go up against a teflon pResident. If any candidate survives the savages of our own party, he stands a good chance against *.

[alexwcovington]

2. The only teflon politician...

...is a dead one. Or Kucinich maybe, close enough lol.

[blm]

18. That teflon the media granted Dean is temporary.

Bush's teflon is permanent throughout 2004. The Dean lies and inconsistencies on what should be principled positions will be played throughout the general election cycle and used to weaken the entire Dem party as the party of liars and unprincipled politicians.

[a_lil_wall_fly]

3. He does have one

http://www.msnbc.com/news/1000254.asp
Lack of knowledge of current geography...
<snip>
NYE: In Iran?
DEAN: Iran is a more complex problem because the problem support as clearly verifiable as it is in North Korea. Also, we have less-fewer levers much the key, I believe, to Iran is pressure through the Soviet Union. The Soviet Union is supplying much of the equipment that Iran, I believe, most likely is using to set itself along the path of developing nuclear weapons. We need to use that leverage with the Soviet Union and it may require us to buying the equipment the Soviet Union was ultimately going to sell to Iran to prevent Iran from them developing nuclear weapons. That is also a country that must not be allowed to develop nuclear weapons much the key to all this is foresight. Let’s act now so we don’t have to have a confrontation which may result in force, which would be very disastrous in the case of North Korea and might be disastrous in the case of Iran.
<snip>
4 counts of stating Soviet Union--when the SU is a dead country. If he stated the former republics of the SU ---I would be jumping up and down on the more clear and factual statement then.
He should focus on what some of the other candidates have stated more money to education and educational services!!!!!


With all that hard earned monies form citizens that eat Top-Ramen--to have this type of research and knowledge base... for shame Dr. Dean for wasting these citizen hard earned money on 4 star hotels and fine meals.

[alexwcovington]

4. From the same site ... earlier in the transcript

Dean recognizes the USSR is dead, he just abbreviated the phrase "former Soviet Union"

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Governor Dean, could you tell us how your administration will actually get bin Laden?
(LAUGHTER)
DEAN: I think this president is conducting the war on terror in exactly the wrong way. About three months ago, ABC News smuggled uranium into Los Angeles, California, from Jakarta, Indonesia, and we didn’t find out about it. That was the purpose, just to see if they could do it. And they did.
We’re spending a lot of money in Iraq. We’re spending money building tactical battlefield nuclear weapons, which are never going to be helpful fighting terrorism. And we’re not spending money on human intelligence and on cyber-intelligence and on cargo inspection and on buying the enriched uranium stocks of the former Soviet Union. If that stuff gets in terrorist hands, we have a major national security problem.
So what we’re going to do is focus on terrorism and not on nation states, unless the nation states merge with the terrorist organization, as they did in Afghanistan. And I supported the action we took in Afghanistan to fight terror.
But, by and large, this president, I don’t believe, has any idea how to fight terror. And I don’t think he is being particularly successful at it either.

[a_lil_wall_fly]

5. Yes..but he should have still stated that down in the later

part as well.... it is just bad judgement...why not call out Russia since he is calling out Saudi Arabia.

What do you that he is more afriad of Vlad Putin over the House of Saud?

[alexwcovington]

6. Bad judgement?

It's English -- the most butcherable language possible in the world. Bush perpetrated much worse linguistic offences and still became the resident.

[a_lil_wall_fly]

8. Yes and this is why i can call him the ...

talking house plant

[alexwcovington]

9. An interesting analogy

Glad you stopped your pointless attack on Dean.

[a_lil_wall_fly]

10. No pointless

He has other issues...

His papers vs Bush papers as governors
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/usatoday/20031202/ts_usatoday/12053688
<snip>
He declared: "I'll unseal mine if he'll unseal all of his."
<snip>

What is this two kids on the street saying this!!!

I thought Dr. Dean is trying to run a campaign better than anyone else especially the talking house plant.

This type of answer shows me that he is not wanting to truly let go of some of the perks that he had and show the world truly that he is one or more levels better than that of the talking house plant.

[alexwcovington]

11. This is a showdown with Bush!

And that's the game Dean is playing. He's right into generals mode here and he's doing it well.

[Fleshdancer]

12. If it makes you happy,

a report just came out saying Dean will most likely open his records.

as far as the "I'll unseal mine if he'll unseal his" comment...I thought it was funny. politics doesn't always have to be so heavy you know.

[DemBones DemBones]

20. Too bad nobody told Dean that Bush's records ARE

available to the public in the Texas Archives, having been moved there from his daddy's presidential library after the state attorney general ruled it had to be done. Joe Trippi is slipping to let Dean make a gaffe like that one.

[a_lil_wall_fly]

23. DemBones..TY

For you input, I didn't know that Texas AG stated that.

[RevolutionStartsNow]

25. You might want to take a look-see

at this article:

http://www.austinchronicle.com/issues/dispatch/2003-11-07/pols_feature.html

Open records indeed.

[Fleshdancer]

7. Where else is this being discussed?

I know the USSR flap is on DU, but I haven't heard anyone else say anything about it.

[Jerseycoa]

14. I heard it

CNN, MSNBC. Talking heads.

[RevolutionStartsNow]

16. Briefly discussed

but not being trumpted as a major gaffe, because it was clear that Dean identified the "former Soviet Union" earlier in the transcript. There's nothing to suggest that Dean didn't realize that the USSR is gone.

Again, the original article suggested that none of this will hurt Dean. I think the Conf. Flag thing was the worst episode he's been through, and he came out of that with the Union endorsements.

I expect he will have other bad points, because of his tendency to speak off the cuff, and the fact that he is being intensely scrutinized, but it remains to be seen if anything can really stick.

[KaraokeKarlton]

15. Dean doesn't usually spend money frivolously

For most of his campaign he's spent the night in homes of his supporters rather than spending money on a hotel. And I'm sure if he was eating fine meals his doctor wife wouldn't have commented on his need to eat less donuts.

[Egnever]

19. you clearly dont know much about Dean

With all that hard earned monies form citizens that eat Top-Ramen--to have this type of research and knowledge base... for shame Dr. Dean for wasting these citizen hard earned money on 4 star hotels and fine meals.

This guy rarely if ever stays in four star hotels. When he came to Las Vegas for a fund raiser he was pissed that we got him a limo. He just wanted someone to pick him up in thier car. This guy is the most frugal of the candidates often staying in motel 6 type hotels.

You must be thinking of sharpton.

[a_lil_wall_fly]

24. Well.........

I know that his margin of victory in the last 3 campaigns dropped like a lead weight in water. The number of republican and the 3rd party registered voters that voted soared. This in turn cause the republican party to win Vermont governership in 2002. Check the election results at Vermonts Elections website. It is truly disheartening that all of people are flocking to a person that has that under his belt and considers that as a huge victory. A win is a win mentality is good to a point, but look at the trendlines that he caused in the state of Vermont.

I know that his research and knowledge base people should consider the related consequences that his statement about the Rebel flag would have be at best a double-edged statement.

I know that his research and knowledge base people should consider the related consequences of his desire to be a federalist on the 14b issue over the states that have thier citizens and voted in the RTW.

Those two last issues are a direct attack on the areas where he wants to mend wounds of the pass. I think that he has truly shown that he is now a typical New Englander politican that doesn't have a clue about the South and its goals and agendas.

[KaraokeKarlton]

31. You clearly are VERY misinformed about Vermont politics

As a Vermonter, I am going to tell you what REALLY happened in Vermont during the 2002 elections.

Doug Racine was Dean's Lt. Governor, and the Democrat running for Governor. He didn't want to be accused of not being his own man, so he asked that Dean not help him, so Dean respected that and went about his business. Jim Douglas was the only Republican running and he's a damn good guy. He's been a good governor so far and will likely win re-election if he keeps on the path he's going. He was the state Treasurer and is well known and well liked. The Vermont Progressive Party seems to want to destroy the Vermont Democratic Party and they always run a candidate for governor. Anthony Pollina is usually the one who runs. He gets the most liberal votes in the state. Con Hogan also ran as an Independent and is quite well known. So, there were two different candidates from other parties that took a lot of votes Doug Racine would have gotten. And for the record, before Dean became governor and kept winning again and again, Vermont was a Republican stronghold in state politics. Vermonters like Dean very much and it doesn't matter who he is on a ticket against in this state, if he's on the ballot, he will win.

[Demobrat]

27. When he came to San Francisco

he and three or four of his aids were jammed into a rented Chevette. Shoot, I wouldn't have begrudged them a mid-sized.

[Octafish]

13. Don't look for mud feet where there's a mud head.

The ex-governor ex-doctor ex-stockbroker may talk faster than the average repuke, but he doesn't really know that much about being President. Then again, he is good at talking...

[9119495]

17. Everything you just said about Dean

except the listing of professions would apply to Kerry too. Of course I would disagree with that characterization of both of them, but it is funny how you charge that Dean is all these things when Kerry is often refered to as the candidate that talks and talks and says nothing. Once again, I disagree that Kerry does that, but I'll gladly point out others think so if such substance-less attacks are directed at governor Dean.

[Octafish]

21. Wrong. Kerry has a RECORD of working for Democratic causes.

It's more than talk. Sen. Kerry has devoted almost his entire adult life to public service in the tradition of Liberal Democrats like FDR and JFK. He's been at the forefront in the fight to fund public education, provide early child development programs, protect the environment, advance small businesses, support organized labor, make friends around the world through the United Nations.

No, with Kerry it's ACTION. With Dean it's talk.

[blm]

22. BCCI. IranContra, CIA drugrunning and the Kyoto Accord are not nothing

accomplishments. Deanies have claimed Kerry is a "corrupt Washington insider" and an empty suit. Please weigh in against that rhetoric from the Dean camp anytime.

[a_lil_wall_fly]

26. BLM..

:toast:

[9119495]

29. Kerry is

not an empty suit. He is not a corrupt Washington insider. He has a distinguished record of public service. He is a good man.

Howard Dean has a distinguished record in community service as a doctor and has served admirably in public service as governor of Vermont, one of our fifty states (although some seem to think its some conservative hick backwater). I love his ideas on education. He wants to start over with the elementary and secondary education act (NCLB) and not just fully fund it as Kerry originally stated in his mailings to me. NCLB is a terrible plan that he voted for. As a teacher and advocate of strong public schools, Dean is clearly the better choice for me.

I will happily support Kerry later if he gets the nod. I like him more now that he has changed some of his earlier positions (for example, his harder line approach to reforming NCLB).

We are not all haters of the opposition. I have my eyes on the prize and I really believe Dean can get us to the White House--and with good policies.

[TheDonkey]

28. Achilles???

Didn't he go down when he was needed most?!?!

[ebw]

30. ... and that is unfortunate

It isn't a State Secret that Howard acted improperly by engaging in active obstruction of the Swanton Band (Abenaki) petition for Federal Recognition, and that he threatened to veto a bill that would have (for the second time) established State Recognition.

Now I don't like Dean on a lot of issues (health and economy and I sure don't want to send more troops into GWB's Excellent Iraq Adventure (tm), to name just three), but I have a real problem with the compeating campaigns and the DNC and ... and most Deaniacs sending the Dean campaign (and every other actual or potential bad actor in the Federal-Tribal-State-Corporate maze) the message that no one cares, that no one can see the elephant in the room.

That's unfortunate for the Democratic Party. Our Party shouldn't swallow little white lies like "State recognition leads to casinos" or "lynching and sterilizations didn't suppress the public appearence of tribal government" or "they all went to Canada" or the rest of the public anti-Indian jingoism that is no better than anti-Black jingoism of recent memory.

I wish the Deanies got it, that Dean's got warts, like everyone who's managed to live through puberty, but their cover-up, by Dean, his coterie, and his campaign, and his Party -- OUR PARTY<\b>, is worse than a case of warts.

Now back to your regularly scheduled cynicism and opportunism, not to mention the cult of the mad, er, angry doctor.