Kerry made it to the front page of Yahoo...

[Meshuga]

"Those of us who seek the Democratic presidential nomination owe the American people more than just criticism of the Bush foreign policy or anger or piecemeal solutions," Kerry said in excerpts of his address released by the campaign. "We need to convince them that Democrats are responsible stewards of our national security and America's role in the world."

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20031203/ap_on_el_pr/democrats_kerry&cid=694&ncid=716

[phillybri]

1. This was a great story, UNTIL...

He said he would appoint James Baker. WHY THE HELL WOULD HE SAY THAT!!!!! Clinton, Carter, BAKER????

That just kills me....

[molly]

2. Let's read it correctly....

"The presidential candidate from Massachusetts, in a speech Wednesday to the Council of Foreign Relations in New York, said there are a handful of people he would consider naming to the post, including former Democratic Presidents Clinton and Carter as well as James Baker, secretary of state in the first Bush White House."

I would hope any logical, thinking presidential candidate would CONSIDER using ANYONE to get us out of our current foreign policy mess.

Let's not let the rage and anger of some candidates - who, BTW, have absolutely NO foreign policy saavy - influence what is good for our country.

[LuminousX]

4. Cast aspersions much?

[molly]

5. Your point is?

[RevolutionStartsNow]

6. Okay, I read it correctly

And it's still bad.

James Baker is a major red flag to many of us. I realize that he didn't endorse or appoint Baker, but I would hope that our next president wouldn't even CONSIDER working with someone that offensive.

[molly]

7. I agree James Baker is offensive

and I basically hate his guts - BUT - I would use any of them to get this country out of the mess it's in.

[RevolutionStartsNow]

9. That's the point

Baker was instrumental in getting us INTO this mess, why the F would we ask him to help get us out? If a Dem takes the presidency (okay, WHEN!), the GOP will have their sights set on 2008 and Jeb. Why would we want someone like Baker anywhere near our administration at that point?

[molly]

10. Remember Nixon and China?

[RevolutionStartsNow]

11. Are you using that to defend James Baker?

Really? Baker = Nixon?

[molly]

15. You are missing many points.

[RevolutionStartsNow]

18. Oh, please share

But please remember that the real outrage here is about Baker's role in the 2000 selection, so don't forget recent history.

[blm]

12. Baker was in charge of the Bush1 foreign policy Dean said was "excellent."

I disagree with Kerry that Baker should even be "considered" however you have Dean being applauded here for his Hardball appearance where he praised Colin Powell who he would have for Sec. of State and praising Bush1's foreign policy as "excellent" when it was Baker who handled Bush1's foreign policy ventures.

Why are you all being so hypocritical when Kerry said he'd only "consider" Baker in the interest of bi-partisanship?

Note also that Dean says Powell should have been listened to on Iraq, yet it was Powell who made the case to the Democrats in committee and promised a coalition would be built first and employ full diplomatic measures before use of force.


http://www.msnbc.com/news/1000254.asp

 MATTHEWS: Do you have any confidence that this president is calling the shots?
       DEAN: I think the president does make the last decision. I do think that. I think he gets a lot of advises. The problem is that the people he gets advice from are people he ought to not be paying so much attention to. If he paid more attention to Colin Powell and less attention to Dick-
       Donald Rumsfeld, we wouldn’t be in Iraq right now.
       (APPLAUSE)
       MATTHEWS: Do you think he would be a good secretary of state for you, Colin Powell?
       DEAN: I think he would be a good secretary of state, period. He is a loyal person. He knows, what he is doing. And he has what-let’s get back to the question...
       MATTHEWS: Do you agree with him on foreign policy, Colin Powell?
       DEAN: In many cases I do. I read his books. I like them a lot. You don’t go into a place with no exit strategy. We clearly went into Iraq with not exit strategy.
       Let me answer the question about Kerry’s comments about my foreign policy.
       MATTHEWS: Sure.
       DEAN: Kerry, Gephardt, Lieberman, Edwards and Wes Clark at first, all of us were in favor of this resolution that was a preemptive unilateral attacks on Iraq. I was not. We all had information from the papers. They presumably had some intelligence information, with the exception of Wes, who may have had some or not. He was out of the government by them. I came to a different conclusion because a lot of what is required of a president for foreign policy is judgment and patience. If I came to a different conclusion than they did, given the amount of trouble we’re now in Iraq, given the fact that al Qaeda is in Iraq now and it wasn’t there before, it seems to me that their kind of foreign policy experience is not the kind we want in the White House and mine is.
       

          MATTHEWS: That’s it? You are a cold man.
       George Bush Sr., Herbert Walker Bush?
       DEAN: Excellent on foreign policy. Not to great on domestic policy.

[RevolutionStartsNow]

13. After his role in the 2000 fraud,

Baker should be completely off-limits in any Dem administration.

[blm]

16. No comment on Dean's hypocrisy or Dean supporters'?

.

[blm]

29. Cat got your fingertips?

.

[RevolutionStartsNow]

30. Yeah, okay, okay

You are asking for a comment on Dean supporters "hypocrisy"? That right?

I personally don't agree with Dean's comments about GHWB's foreign policy, though I think he's trying to draw a contrast to Junior's abysmal foreign policy work.

Baker's role in the 2000 selection raises him to a whole new level of evilness. I think this is where the real disgust is coming from about Kerry's comment. Don't you agree?


Edit: Just noticed that you called Dean a "lying inconsistent fraud" in another post just below this. But yet you want Dean supporters to engage in rational dialogue with you? C'mon...

[blm]

32. Baker did it FOR Poppy or did you think he did it on his own?

Get real.

And maybe Kerry by saying he'd "consider" Baker is saying it to highlight Bush2's failings in the Mideast and get conservatives to think and compare?

[RevolutionStartsNow]

33. Of course he did, I agree with you

Baker bad. Poppy bad. All bad. Don't want them in Dean's or Kerry's administration. Ever.

I don't agree with what Dean said about Poppy, in fact I think Dean was doing exactly what you suggested, trying to highlight the son's miserable foreign policy by putting it in perspective of his father's policies. You stole my argument. :)

[molly]

14. WOW! I missed that

I was working. It's OK tho because it was the almighty Dean's opinion. Since we have absolutely NO WAY to determine what his Iraq policy would've-could've been, he can say anything he wants and get away with it. His loyal supporters won't even question the almighty Howard Dean.

[blm]

21. Yep. More Dean and Dean supporter hypocrisy.

When will it end? Maybe when the corporate media shames the entire Dem party for having a lying, inconsistent fraud at the top of the ticket while covering up for the other lying, inconsistent fraud who controls the corporate media.

[phillybri]

25. I read the point correctly....

Still, why James Baker (the BFEE's ballwasher)? I'm all for bipartisan cooperation, but how did he come up with Baker???

[polpilot]

31. Kerry's repubuddy? I want a prez who REFUSES to shake Baker's hand.

Refuses. "No I don't believe I want to shake your hand, Jim. I'm afraid of where it may have been."

Dean '04...

[NNadir]

34. How about Jim Bakker, the ex-felon televangelist.

No wait, unindicted war criminal Henry Kissinger. Colin "Cover-up My Lai and that reproduction of Picasso's Guerica" Powell for bipartisan continuity? I know, Dick Cheney, there's a man with international experience. Um...um...is Caspar Weinberger dead? Oliver North?

I mean we wouldn't want a well respected and admired Democrat like Madeline Albright would we?

[LuminousX]

3. I actually liked and respected Baker up until 2000

[blm]

23. I always despised Baker from when he deregulated the S&L's....

but, I do see paulk's point about Kerry's likely intention here. For those conservatives and moderates who perceived Poppy's foreign policy as "mature" and Junior's policy as "petulant" then this may have been a smart bone to throw, even while I doubt that he has any intention of considering Baker as an envoy.

[w4rma]

8. Note, James Baker's law firm is representing the Saudis against American

victims of 9.11.

[blm]

17. Note, James Baker's foeign policy is "excellent" according to Dean.

Dean did praise Bush1's "excellent" foreign policy on Monday. Well, Baker pushed forth Bush1's foreign policy, didn't he?

[paulk]

19. There are a lot of people from Poppy's camp, including James Baker,

who aren't real happy with the job Shrub has done with foreign policy.
Poppy, through these people, sent some shots across his kid's bow prior to the invasion - little good it did.

Kerry is sending a subtle message to the old-line conservatives with this. There is a big part of the Republican party leadership who don't like the neocons any better than we do, and Kerry is telling them that, as far as foreign policy is concerned, they're on the same side.

ps - I can't stand James Baker.

[blm]

20. I see what you're saying, and you are probably right...but...

I still hate that he would even throw that Baker bone out there, even if it is smart politics.

[paulk]

22. I think some of the criticism of Kerry is justified

as far as him being an "out of touch" insider. He understands how politics works and how you really get things done in Washington, but he seems clueless about how the Democratic electorate out there is reacting to the events of the last few years. This Baker thing is a good example.He doesn't seem to understand the anger out there, and that much of it is directed not only at Bush, but at the Democratic party in general.

The "brilliance" of the Dean campaign is that he has recognized that anger and capitalized on it. So far, Kerry has been unable to deflect Dean or tap into that anger himself.

I fear this may cost, not only the Democrats, but the country itself the person I feel is most qualified to lead us at this time.

[sandnsea]

24. I am honestly horrified

I keep thinking this is a Kerry joke, it fits his style.

President Clinton, President Carter...
and in the interests of bipartisanship (haha) James Baker. (laughter)

I don't know. I just can't imagine mentioning James Baker's name seriously in conjunction with a Democratic agenda at all. This could really be my deal breaker.

[killbotfactory]

26. Kerry is the next Dukakis and is unelectable

He's a wishy-washy, gun grabbing, ivory tower, tax and spend liberal who wants to raise taxes, is weak on defense, and endorses gay marriage.

And now he want's to negotiate with a terrorist sponsoring nation like Iran while we are at war with terrorism? Helloooo 9/11!!!

Try and tell me that's not how Rove will spin it.

If Kerry is elected, Bush will win in a landslide.

This message brought to you by The Democratic Nihilist Coalition (DNC): "The bitter crank wing of the democratic party"

[blm]

27. Good thing Kerry is smart enough to counter it and has a record of BRAVERY

UNDER FIRE.... And relentlessly pursued Reagan and Bush administrations on BCCI, IranContra and CIA drugrunning while being smeared every day in the press.

[killbotfactory]

28. I'm sorry, but exclusive DNC analysis doens't include the possibility of

a democrat fighting against right wing meme's.

And according to that analysis, Kerry is unelectable.