Why liberals support Dean - Molly Ivins hits the target!

[helleborient]

"I know, he's even less of a liberal than Bill Clinton was, but I don't think Dean is a moderate centrist. I think he's a fighting centrist. And folks, I think we have got ourselves a winner here."

More of her endorsement:

http://www.naplesnews.com/npdn/pe_columnists/article/0,2071,NPDN_14960_2475972,00.html

[NoPasaran]

1. Right on Molly!

That's what attracted me to Dean, he seems like a fighter. Democrats haven't fought for anything since Reagan was elected and it's time that changed.

[Keebs]

2. oooo

I just love Molly Ivins! She makes me a little more proud to be from Texas. Well, her and the Dixie Chicks =)

[KoKo]

3. Yes! Her thought process was exactly what I went through! This article

makes excellent points, even if folks here support other candidates. I'm sorry about Kerry..I was ready to support him before Iraq Resolution, then I backed off in anger then reconsidered, took another look and every time he's disappointed me. Gephardt gave one good speech and I took another look, then he disappointed time after time. Then I settled on Kucinich and Dean, not deciding between either, quite. Edwards wasn't a factor for me because of Molly's assessment "young and inexperienced" plus my NC experience with him which was negative.

So, while I still wish Kucinich could make it, I think Dean is our best bet, while maybe not "liberal enough" at least he's angry like I am.But,
I hope Kucinich can hang in a little while longer, because he makes so much sense on so many issues that he gives a voice to those of us in the "farther left" about what's wrong with America and hopefully Dean is listening.

I'm glad to see this "practical" article.

[no name no slogan]

7. That was my thinking on Dukakis in 1988

I felt the same way, and backed Dukakis because he appeared to be a "winner". We all know how that one turned out.

Many of us progressive types backed Bill Clinton in 1992, because we couldn't tolerate another four years of Bush mismanagement. We knew he wasn't really a liberal, but we felt he would at least try to enact some liberal programs.

What did we get? NAFTA. "Welfare Reform". "Don't Ask, Don't Tell". A half-baked attempt at "managed competition" instead of true universal health care. Continued sanctions against Iraqi children. The rich became the super-rich, while the middle and working classes were thankful for the crumbs they left behind.

At the end of the day, it really depends on what you expect to have happen the day after the election that counts. Will the country really be on the path to true change if ________ wins? Will we get somebody who'll fight for TRUE universal healthcare, not jost "almost universal" healthcare? Will we get a president who is committed to getting us out of Iraq, and building bridges to the rest of the world? Will we get a president who believes GLBTs should have the same rights as everybody else, and will make it FEDERAL law (not just a "states rights" issue? Will we get somebody who will replace NAFTA with real fair trade, instead of just tinkering with it?

THAT's the real choice that stands before us.

[bread_and_roses]

13. So true

...the campaign work I do is focused on re-engaging the poor and working poor who have either been deliberately marginalized or have themselves opted out of the system because it offers them nothing. Which of the "major" candidates offers anything that I can take to these people as a reason to vote? In the past twenty years most Democrats have been as guilty as the Republicans of offering up these groups as sacrifices to "centrism," Bill Clinton being a prime example. Nor do I see too many on this site who appear to have much concern about structural poverty and racism. (I say "appear" because I don't know...I just don't see much in the threads except from the same few people.)

More than likely this coming election I will work for some local candidates, who will no doubt be Dems, so getting people out to vote for them will benefit the Dem Presidential nominee as well. But I will not go out to people and tell them that a candidate who doesn't address their issues is going to make a difference to them. Those of you who say, "But it will be so much worse for them under Bush," must, I think, have no idea how bad things are for them now. It won't be worse for them under Bush because things are already just about as bad as they can get. The things you fear coming to pass have pretty much already happened for the poor, and especially for poor minorities in this country.

[JohnKleeb]

8. On Kucinich

I sincerely think if he wasnt called fringe or whatever by the press, people would be more willing to give him a chance. I'll give you my reason why KoKo, my dad and I decided to send the Kucinich platform to family and friends, got a nice letter from my cousin's wife who is a rank and file dem, and she said she had never heard of him but she really liked this, my dad is rank and file too, I admit I am on the far left but these two are your everyday dems, if the media just mentioned him without saying something like fringe or radical or whatever, then people might give a chance.

[helleborient]

9. Here's what I heard last night from 2 disgruntled Kucinich supporters...

Who were at our Dean Meetup for the 2nd month.

They recently graduated from college. One is unfortunately unemployed.

They said they were strong Kucinich supporters, but were very very frustrated with his campaign. They believed he speaks very good rhetoric, but his actions in the campaign don't fit the rhetoric...in other words, not strong organizing and hiring of strong campaign professionals. They openly said Joe Trippi has been a huge part of bringing them on board with Howard Dean.

One of them said to me he had read a comment from another ex-Kucinich supporter that would sum up his opinions well:

If this were a left-wing essay writing contest, Dennis Kucinich would win hands down. But it's not...it's a presidential campaign.

[JohnKleeb]

10. I was just sayin

Ya know. We arent all extreme leftists like yours truly. Just an ancedote, thats all.

[no name no slogan]

11. Interesting...

because I had a similar discussion w/ an ex-Dean supporter at a campaign meeting a few weeks ago.

She was vehemently opposed to the Iraq war, and wanted the US to get out as soon as possible. She thought she had joined a "grassroots" people-oriented campaign, but became disillusioned with the "professional political" nature of those uptop (i.e., Joe Trippi).

Once Dean started getting more hazy on the issues (and couldn't give a straight answer to save his life), she bolted. She was truly angry that he couldn't make up his mind on such core issues (at least to his campaign) as gay marriage rights and our troops in Iraq.

But I guess that some people think electing another politician who'll say anything is more important than voting for someone who has a record of standing up for what's right.

[JohnKleeb]

12. one ancedote for another eh

Sigh no offense helloborent but I wasnt talking about Dean or any of the candiates really, I was just trying to shed light on a positive thing that happened to me recently. No offense.

[helleborient]

16. No offense taken (n/t)

[JohnKleeb]

17. I was just sharing an experience

Didnt ask the people about it though. I hope my cousin's wife has friends because she should be telling em.

[Larkspur]

14. It's obvious your friend is naive about Presidential politics

Pure Presidential Grassroots campaigns fail because they fail to build effective coalitions with established leaders who would be open to progressive causes.

Dean's Campaign is people-powered but we expect him to win so that means he has to branch out and form coalitions with some in the Dem Establishment who are open to supporting our causes.

The form of leadership that the Dean Campaign is following is derived from Robert Greenleaf, the late AT&T executive who became disgusted at the poor quality and corrupt leadership in our nations major institutions -- business, religious, educational, and non-profits -- during the 1960's. Greenleaf developed a Servant Leadership paradigm which promoted a participatory democracy model as opposed to the hierarchal paradigm. Peter Brock, a contemporary Greenleaf disciple, took Greenleaf's theories and called it Stewardship.

I see Gov. Dean as the Steward of the power We His Supporters have entrusted in him and his Campaign. We Deanocrats are the Campaign's "shareholders" and expect our leader to devise a plan to help us in our cause to unseat Bush and the Reichwing ideology that controls most levers of power in Washington.

Personally, I'm excited about the decisions made by the Campaign to date. I trully believe that Dean will boot Bush back to Texas and make DeLay a minority leader.

[NewYorkerfromMass]

4. too bad he's got issues which will sink him in the general election

Dean is the liberal Northeast version of George Wallace.

[wtmusic]

5. Because of the 'Confederate Flag' statement?

[helleborient]

6. If you work alongside other Democrats for whomever the nominee is...

Perhaps that won't happen.

If you prefer 4 more years of Bush, sit home, whine about your chosen candidate not winning the nomination...and don't complain about any results.

And so exactly how does Dean compare with George Wallace???

I'm really curious about this.

[killbotfactory]

15. Kerry is the next Dukakis

His military posturing is ridiculous. He might as well ride around in a tank.

[SahaleArm]

18. No way says Kerry - I'm my own man

[Octafish]

19. He's no draft dodger, either.

Kerry volunteered to protect his country. When he discovered the war was a sham, he did all he could to end it.

Here's what Dean's supporters don't like: Ho-Ho dodged the draft. Ho-Ho did not protest the war. Ho-Ho went skiing.

[helleborient]

21. So did you vote for George Bush, Sr. over Bill Clinton?

That was a case of a decorated war veteran vs. an admitted draft dodger.

[sandnsea]

20. No reason at all?

Except the media reports his divisive attacks on Dems and nothing else? You people REALLY think they're going to report what he says if he wins the primaries? NO. It's going to go right back to the way it always has been. Everything Bush says is reported, nothing Dean says is reported. Are you not noticing it already?

Putting it all on the line for somebody whose politics you don't even agree with. Craziest election ever.