From Miami Herald: Florida Democrats Worry as Gore Endorses Dean....

[flpoljunkie]

http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/news/politics/7456441.htm?template=contentModules/printstory.jsp

Posted on Wed, Dec. 10, 2003

CAMPAIGN 2004 | DEMOCRATS

Fla. Democrats worry as Gore supports Dean

In Florida, some Democratic leaders say they're worried that nominating Howard Dean -- who is staunchly opposed to the Iraq war -- risks turning off centrist voters who decide close races.

BY PETER WALLSTEN

With a surprising endorsement Tuesday from Al Gore, Howard Dean won something that widening leads in polls of early primary states and massive fundraising success had not yet achieved: the legitimacy of a national party standard-bearer.

But in Florida, one of the nation's most coveted states in presidential politics and the most poignant symbol of Gore's 2000 recount loss, some Democratic leaders say they remain worried that anointing Dean in 2004 risks turning off centrist voters who will decide close races up and down the ballot.

''The reality is that there are some who have major concerns over Dean's candidacy,'' said state Sen. Rod Smith of Gainesville, a former prosecutor who is being pushed by centrist Democrats as a candidate for governor in 2006. ``We don't know that much yet, but those of us who come from a part of the state where moderate Democratic politics is the rule want to make sure that the Democratic Party has someone with whom everybody can be comfortable.''

Democratic strategists in Florida are most concerned that Dean's stiff opposition to the Iraq war will hurt candidates vying for other jobs -- particularly in the open U.S. Senate seat being vacated by Democrat Bob Graham -- and that Republicans would easily paint him as ``angry.''

...more...

This follow a recent article from Orlando Sentinel on same topic of Dean's electability in the South. We are angry in Florida, but we would like to put forward the candidate who has the best chance to beat George Bush--that man is not Howard Dean. I hope the media will see fit to cover this event.

John Kerry would make the best president we have had in my lifetime; he has spent his political life fighting entrenched special interests, particularly, the BFEE. I admire him tremendously.

Next on my list for who would make the best president is Wesley Clark. Charley Rangel's endorsement of Wes Clark in Harlem tomorrow will make quite a contrast to the Gore/Dean event yesterday, which was very noticeably short of people of color.
I hope the media will see fit to cover this event.

[Larkspur]

1. If Kerry flunks the primaries, he's not the best man to lead this nation

nor the Democratic Party.

Dean is by far the better Democratic Presidential candidate -- he started with $157,000 campaign chest, Kerry started with transferring over $2 million from his senate campaign war chest; as of 3rd quarter, Dean raised over $25 million mostly with small donors, Kerry raised $20 million mostly with large donors; Dean has been ascending in the polls in key early primary states, especially NH where Dean enjoys a 20-30% lead over Kerry, who was the presumptive frontrunner after Al Gore bowed out alst year.

Dean has shown that he is a coalition building, a tact that shows that he can be excellent in foreign relations, which will require us to build coalitions.

[flpoljunkie]

3. Latest Pew Poll shows only a 14 point spread between Dean and Kerry...

The trend is in the right direction. Let's not forget that New Hampshire voters do not like to be told whom to vote for-- not even from Al Gore, tone-deaf campaigner that he remains.

[Larkspur]

9. Gore didn't tell voters who to vote for...

he endorsed Dean and gave his very practical reasons for doing so.

Dean is the best candidate to face Bush. Unlike Kerry he doesn't have to go into debt to pay for his campaign. We supporters donate to Dean's campaign willingly and because Dean has inspired thousands of us, we can keep giving long after Kerry's large donors can't.

[boneygrey]

21. Lieberman

Gore should have at least had the courtesy to let Joe know he was going to endorse Dean. After all, Lieberman was his running mate and he stayed out of the race until Gore decided not to run. I am now reconsidering Kerry in favor of Lieberman. He may be our best bet to beat Bush. However, ABB.

[a_lil_wall_fly]

13. voters do not like to be told whom to vote for in general...

point blank in every state.

[Sagan]

2. If the war is still going crappily in November

which it will be, then centrist voters will be against it. Many are now.

[helleborient]

4. I'm just tired of attempts to crush the largest grassroots campaign...

If Dean's candidacy is crushed now, the largest grassroots campaign is crushed.

All 8 other candidates seem to be wanting grassroots campaigning to be proven as an invalid way for a campaign to be run.

If they really can turn things around and go toe to toe with Howard Dean on numbers of individual people working for the campaign, and numbers of individual people willing to give their money to support the cause...then I will be impressed.

For now, it looks like insiderism, Kerry's personal money, and angry ideological purity on the left are the opposition Dean has to defeat in the Democratic Party.

[Township75]

5. I don't understand all the worry...

if Kerry or some other "centrist" can't even win the democratic primary how is s/he possibly the best candidate to face Bush?

I think Dean is the best individual to gather the swing vote. A lot of the swing vote basically goes to which candidate they like the best, and there is much to admire about Dean. He stands up for beliefs that aren't always popular, is not intimidated by anyone, and has a likeable personality...I hope he wins the primary, not only because of his politics, but because I believe he stands the best chance of bringing us the swing vote.

[jmaier]

6. Another perspective

Dean folks,

I'm just a regular Joe -- not a politico and not a DLC operative. I support a candidate other than Howard Dean for a pretty good, though personal reason: I think Wesley Clark will make a better President for the people of this nation.

I have no desire to squash the "largest grassroots movement." I would like to see a person nominated who I think will make an exceptional President and who, imo, stands the best chance of defeating George W. Bush and company.

Most supporters of Wes Clark, Gephardt, Kerry, Edwards AND Lieberman aren't united in some underground conspiracy to defeat the "People's Choice". We are people too and simply have another choice. All of us who donate funds, time and speak on behalf of our candidate are ALSO grassroots supporters. Our voices are every bit as legitimate as are yours.

I don't think Gov Dean would be a poor President and I do admire the skill and strength of his campaign and its valiant supporters. However, I do believe that, if nominated, he will have a very tough time avoiding the Rove machinery's attempts to "Dukasisize" him. Hey, I agree Dean is no Dukakis. By Rove standards, even Dukakis is no Dukakis but the perception will be much EASIER to create with Dean than with some of his nomination opponents.

I agree with Wes Clark that national security credibility is the key to a Democratic victory. Why? Not necessarily because it is the instrinsicly MOST important issue but because if you can't neutralize Bush on that issue, then all of the other things that are important to Democrats and plain old Joe Americans won't even become blips in the GE.

BTW, I'm ABB and will actively support whoever wins the nomination.

Peace

[billbuckhead]

7. Dean will struggle to break 40% in the general election.

If Dean is the candidate, I predict the worst defeat for the Democrats in history in percentage terms. In the south, Dean probably will get in the high 30's. On the good side it will be a rennaissance for 3rd parties.

[helleborient]

8. It was predicted here that Kerry would be leading by December...

Why should we expect this prediction to be any more valid?

[hey2370]

15. Any Dem candidate will struggle in 2004

It doesn't matter who it is.

[polpilot]

16. What was your prediction for the Kerry v. Dean matchup...in January '03??

Oh...I see.

Dean '04...

[billbuckhead]

10. Dukakis has a lot more integrity than the Vermont spinDoctor.

[papau]

11. Meanwhile WSJ/Daily News and ABCNote continue dump on Dean

Meanwhile WSJ/Daily News and ABCNote continue dump on Dean

http://www.nydailynews.com/12-10-2003/news/politics/story/144493p-127803c.html

Bushies keen on Dean
as W's ideal foe



By THOMAS M. DeFRANK
DAILY NEWS WASHINGTON BUREAU CHIEF

WASHINGTON - White House political strategists believe Howard Dean has a hammerlock on the 2004 Democratic nomination - and they're trying hard not to gloat about it.

Senior Bush political managers have been ordered to curb their cockiness but many of them privately say President Bush has drawn the opponent of his dreams in Dean - a left-leaning Democrat they contend can be tarred as a latter-day George McGovern.<snip>

But Team Bush believes that Dean's support for same-sex unions, abortion rights and higher taxes not only energizes the conservative Republican base but turns off independent voters.<snip>


In addition, "Dean will never pass the leadership threshold test," another Bush adviser argued. "He comes across as a morally superior liberal elitist who isn't ready to be President."<snip>

COMMENT- now why would the GOP plant a story that they like Dean because he would be easy, but they can not talk about it?



And as always, the ABCNote carries GOP water by saying "There are at least seven people affiliated with the Bush-Cheney campaign who are more familiar with Dean's record as Vermont governor than he is — and can talk about it on terms that will be very compelling to the American people." With the Daily News joining the Wall Street Journal in dumping on Dean in contradiction to "WhiteHouse orders to help Dean win nomination.

http://www.nydailynews.com/front/story/144540p-127806c.html Ten things you should know about Howard Dean : Dean was a New York baby, born in the old Doctors Hospital in Manhattan. His father, Howard, worked on Wall Street for 25 years and the family lived on Park Ave. while Dean was young. His mother, Andree, stayed home with the four Dean boys. He says, “I feel I really grew up in East Hampton ,” where he played hockey on a pond behind his house in the winter and “baseball and Ballantine” in the summer - once he was 18. Dean attended some of the most exclusive schools in the country. At age 13, he was sent to St. George’s School in Newport, R.I. After graduating from high school, he was enrolled in an English boarding school and traveled through much of Europe and North Africa. He later graduated from Yale. The anti-war candidate flunked his draft physical at Fort Hamilton in Brooklyn because of an unfused vertebra. He concedes he then took a construction job in Colorado, where “all I did was work and ski.” His brother Charlie was killed in Laos during the Vietnam War. Dean’s parents say Charlie was a CIA agent; his bones were recently repatriated. After trying Wall Street and not liking it, Dean opted for a career in medicine and attended Einstein College of Medicine in the Bronx, where he met his wife, Judy Steinberg. They shared a medical practice for years, but she has never campaigned with him. Dean says his patients preferred being treated by his wife.Like President Bush, Dean abruptly quit drinking. Dean’s epiphany came when he woke up hung-over at age 33, the day after his bachelor party. He migrated to Burlington, Vt., in 1978 to begin his residency - after not getting into any of his first three choices. He began his political career there. Dean was Vermont’s lieutenant governor in 1991, when Gov. Dick Snelling died. Dean remained governor until 2002, when he decided to run for President.He has two teenage children, Anne and Paul. Paul was recently arrested for being the getaway driver for other teens who broke into a country club bar. Dean was born a Catholic, but now lists his faith as Congregationalist, although he does not attend church regularly.


The ABCNote continues the dump on Dean tone -claiming the Globe takes Dean to task over the what is Bush hiding on 911 - when that is not what the Globe did - it just noted that BUSH KNEW is an incendiary rumor - and questions if Dean should give it air time if he does not think the rumor credible - forgetting that stalling the 911 commission MAKES THE RUMOUR CREDIBLE.And as always, the ABCNote tries to insert in the media mind set that did will not "win"states - so on Feb 3 they should only do stories about delegate accumulation.

[killbotfactory]

12. Dean's gonna make Bush cry in shame in 2004

People need to stop their bellyaching.

[hey2370]

14. Are any Dem leaders fighters anymore?

ALL they seem to do is worry about the Repub attacks.

Maybe if they roll over for Bush a little more Rove will go easy on them?

[Scott Lee]

27. Not from the Old School. That's the problem.

[nator311]

17. all will have trouble beating Bush

If John Kerry's campaign is failing now (mostly because he doesn't take the advise of advisers), he is not going to win the general election. I like Clark, but the problem is that he is a neophyte to politics. Considering Arnold is havin a lot of trouble in CA already, centrist voters may get worried by this. Dean has an innovative campaign, has done a tremendous job motivating the base, and has a fiscally conservative record as governor that can attract independents. As long as his VP has foreign policy experience and he stands up to the Bush attack, he should be fine. BTW, I was a Kerry supporter before Gore's endorsement, which made me give second thoughts to my support of Kerry.

[Demobrat]

18. So, the centrist voters who decide the election

are going to be totally turned off by the centrist Dean, because he's not liberal enough,or conservative enough, or tall enough. Thanks for the heads up. I guess I'll have to switch to (insert your candidate's name here) now.

[genius]

19. A lot of us are worried. Dean can't beat Bush

If he gets the nomination, those of us with clear vision might as well give up and work on the Congressional elections. Dean will never be president. The Dean people can't see what is right before their eyes. Dean's lies and inconsistencies are not making much press now because Karl Rove is rooting for Dean. If Dean wins, Rove will turn the media loose on him and it won't be hard to make Dean look like the biggest liar in history. Rove will probably even start an inquiry into the death of the governor Dean succeeded. They had to stretch to make Whitewater appear to be anything. THis will be much easier. Because of Dean's support for the occupation and his environmental history, he won't be able to get any votes from the left. Come Novemeber, 2004, Dean would have to withdraw or guarantee the Democrats a loss. With his ego, he would probably stick it to the Democrats.

The only way for the Democrats to avoid disaster is to nominate someone else.

[RevolutionStartsNow]

20. For example?

And how about some reasons why that person would withstand the inevitable attacks better than Dean? Especially interested if your choice is someone who hasn't been able to fire up a large number of Dems, or raise a lot of money, up to this point.

Give up? Yeah, that's a good strategy. Hey, then you can say "I told you so!" while watching Bush get inaugurated. That should be fun for you.

[boneygrey]

22. No Dean

I'm afraid he's going to freak out during a debate or a press conference. Then we're dead. We need someone more level headed.

[Mick Knox]

23. Lets not be rash

Genius Said: Because of Dean's support for the occupation and his environmental history, he won't be able to get any votes from the left. Come Novemeber, 2004, Dean would have to withdraw or guarantee the Democrats a loss. With his ego, he would probably stick it to the Democrats.
---------------------------------------------------

The left is not voting for Bush no matter who is the nominee. I'm no dean fan but he's hardly going to cause a radical swing from the left to voting for Bush.

I do agree with you, when the GOP Machine opens up on Dean, he's dust... their quiet right now.. soon they speak... and it's not looking good in all honesty. Bush support remains steady right now it seems... 300 million bucks will be buying allotta uninformed voter votes...and thats why we will have trouble... ignorant electorate.

We can all hope.. but the day of reckoning does approach, when dean MUST do better than Gore- is Dean stronger today than Gore was in 2000? Scarry thought, because I dont think so.. he must do it... or 4 more years doth we endure.. assuming we survive em.

[maxr4clark]

25. Not rash

I agree, nobody left of Dean will vote for Bush, ever. What I worry about is that nobody right of Dean will vote for Dean; and Dean is left of 50% center.

Clark is socially left, but "strong" on foreign policy. Not hawkish; experienced. Florida is a good example of who Clark reaches, but Dean cannot.

[floridaguy]

24. Florida Democrats Want Most "Electable" Candidate

Not only are Floridians angered by the Bossism exhibited by Al Gore in the recent endorsement, they are most concerned with winning in November. They're tired of losing and want the candidate with the best chance to win facing George Bush. Why would you race your second best horse, if you really want to win? Also, after the Orlando convention, it appears Howard Dean is running on an "angry Democrat" platform. That's great for most Democrats, but it won't fly in the general election. Without the $100,000 spent and the Castroesque union support, Dean's self-proclaimed grassroots support was not apparent. In fact, on Friday night, there were at least as many Clark supporters in attendence, if not more. Further, that evening the Clark supporters were energized, while Deaniacs were overwhelmed. Apparently the alarm call went out, because Saturday saw hundreds of union-shirted Dean supporters in full regalia. In fact, at one point, when more than 300 Clark supporters rallied awaiting Clark's arrival, the Dean picket line almost started a rumble. More Chicago-style politics was evidenced by the commotion started in the halls of the convention, while General Clark was speaking to a very interested convention crowd. Realizing the classlessness of the group's behavior, someone was smart enough to quiet them down. Floridians are smart enough to see through a stage act, especially when it's one we can't afford to let play out in November. I hope the rest of the country comes to it's senses, before we're all shaking our heads again. Wesley Clark is the most electable Democratic candidate, period.

[Scott Lee]

26. I'm beginning to think "electable" is a bullshit manipulative term

Guess what, folks? ANYBODY is "electable" if they get the support and the votes. Period. Finito. Owate.

First Principles dictate that all power, all government authority, first and foremost comes from The People. You remember them? All the little carbon based units that make up a society? A society who, in a democratic scheme, chooses their leaders by popular selection?

"Electable" in the current parlance is nothing but a term of manipulation used by party and candidate movers to denegrate opposition.

In reality, it's significance is bubkis.

[DemBones DemBones]

28. What people are saying is that they don't think Dean can win.

They don't think he can get the votes. I agree that anyone is electable if they can get the votes -- after all, I'm supporting Kucinich, so I hear plenty about "not being electable."

Dean has a lot of dedicated supporters; it's a phenomenon; they're creating something new; they give him money (average of $77, right?) -- we've heard all this. We know they will vote for him, but that's not nearly enough votes for him to beat Bush. A lot of us political junkies are really put off by him and don't want to vote for him, so he loses some votes there. He apparently isn't doing well with black voters, a big part of the Democratic base, a part that's tired of having the party take their votes and then ignore them. I don't think he will play well in the South -- he's a pushy Northerner who wants to tell us what to do and they are never popular here. His NRA rating might help him with some but it'll hurt him with others and I don't see it as good for a big gain. More conventional voters everywhere, expecially in flyover country, will be turned off by his support for civil unions and abortion. Nader will probably run if Dean's the nominee, giving dissatisfied Dems a place to go.

I know that my candidate is quite unlikely to be nominated, sadly enough, so I've been paying attention to the others all along. And I think Bush can be beaten. But not by Dean. So it scares the hell out of me that we're hurtling headlong down a path that seems to be leading to Dean's nomination and inglorious defeat. I WANT BUSH OUT. I WANT US TO RUN THE GUY WHO CAN BEAT HIM. I hope Deanies will admit that those of us who oppose him just could be right. We should all wait and see what the actual primaries reveal about candidate's strengths and weaknesses. Everyone is not agreed that Dean is the right man and having him rammed down out throats is making us like him less and less. You ignore us at your peril.