Why Wesley Clark: The Clinton Team is Fully Behind Him

[WiseMen]

Wesley Clark’s candidacy resulted from a combination for opportunism on the part of the brilliant and articulate general and absolute dread of many that Howard Dean would win the nomination and take the party of an electoral cliff in 2004.

THE DEMOCRATIC LEADERSHIP CONCLUDED EARLY THAT DEAN CANNOT BEAT BUSH.

WHY?

Because credibility as Commander-In-Chief is understood by all to be a MANDATORY requirement for a campaign against a SITTING PRESIDENT and a MAJORITY PARTY at war against terror and embattled in Arabia.

Dean’s regular slams against his fellow candidates who voted for the Irac War resolution did nothing to help him meet this test. In fact, it has made it impossible for him climb out of the credibility hole.

Even more disturbing is the fact that Dean now appears to have acted to evade the Vietnam draft. His ski-slope life following his bad-back deferment reflects the most deplorable aspect of class and privilege in America – that the moneyed class can engage in whatever manner of deviousness and fraud to avoid responsibility and gain advantage, yet end-up being celebrated for their success in life.

The image of the poor, colored and disenfranchised that bled and died in Vietnam for the Howard Deans of America, still gnaws a the conscience of the many in the Democratic Leadership who took much the same type of draft-dodge route as Dean.

BILL CLINTON WAS VERY AWARE OF THIS ISSUE, WHICH HAUNTED HIM THROUGHOUT HIS PRESIDENCY, AND MADE IT VERY DIFFICULT FOR HIM TO USE MILITARY FORCE, whether in Bosnia, Kosovo or against Saddam Hussein. Clinton made it known that he does not believe the Governor is really credible as a war-time Commander-In-Chief.

Clinton was initially supportive of John Kerry above Al Gore, and this (it is rumored) was one of the reasons Al Gore decided to not to enter the race. But, with the danger of Dean winning New Hampshire over Kerry rising, the party needed a firewall against Dean in the South. THUS DRAFT CLARK -- THE BRILLIANT, AMBITIOUS, GENERAL WITH SOUTHERN ROOTS AND HIGH (CNN) NAME RECOGNITION.

Clinton owed Clark, big time. Clark carried water for Clinton -- pushing a Bosnia and Kosovo policy that Clinton and Albright wanted but the Pentagon opposed -- yet Clinton let the Pentagon bosses fire him after Clark won the war.

[Khephra]

1. Good reason to get Dean in office

The DLC is still looking for a spine.

[BlueEyedSon]

2. OK, we get all the Clintonites behind Clark

Line up all the Goreys behind Dean

And get 'em to run together on the same ticket

[neuvocat]

3. Explain your post.

[WiseMen]

8. Let it be Clear. There will be a SOUTHERN FIREWALL against DEAN

Clintonites were not backing Clark to miff Gore, but to save the Party. Gore had not decided who to support. At the time few of Gore's people imagined that Gore would come out for Dean.

[neuvocat]

9. Agreed.

My post was in response to post #1, BTW.

Do you have a link for that by any chance? Thanks.

[Nazgul35]

11. It seems that many Clark supporters

rely on CW way too much!

This is a sure road to disaster...

The truth is that you make your own success! That's what Clinton did, that's what Carter did and that's what Kennedy did...

It doesnt give me much hope for the Clark campaign if some of the attitudes expressed in DU are the driving force of your candidate's campaign!

[tsipple]

22. Southern Firewall?

Then why is Dean leading in all the recent state-by-state polls, including those from southern states like Texas and Florida?

[Larkspur]

28. These Clintoistas are the same losers who designed the Nov 2002

election strategy. Yeah, was that a great strategy? Not!

These Clintonistas are political philanders always chasing the proverbial swing voter and pissing off the Dem base. They need to be chucked into the dustbin of history.

[Jerseycoa]

6. Maybe

But I think there's a couple dozen ex-Gore staff on Clark's campaign staff. Or so I heard. I don't know how we can make much of any of it.

On edit: I was replying to post #2

:dem:

[Larkspur]

30. Most of these ex-Gore staffers are the ones Gore wanted to chuck

Dean also had ex-Gore staffers on his campaign prior to Al endorsing him. Obviously ex-Gore staffers are split along ideological lines.

[polpilot]

27. Dean #'s will surge as he's discovered. DLC/Clinton endorsements

supercharge the Dean camp.

Dean '04...

[billbuckhead]

4. How can anyone think Dean is a stronger candidate than Clark?

It defies reality. If people are really anyone but Bush, they'd line up behind a photogenic working class Southern war hero, first in his class at West Point, Oxford educated economist without any legistlative baggage.

[maxr4clark]

10. Exactly!

The people who will support Dean will support any Democrat over B**h.

There are plenty of people in the South that won't support Yankees Dean or Kerry, but will support Clark.

In terms of votes, Clark = Dean plus the south. Clinton won enough of the south, he got elected. Gore almost won enough of the south, and one voter in the Supreme Court beat him. With all due respect to Dean and Kerry, they simply won't win in the South no matter how hard they try.

Let's elect a Democrat in 2004, guys! Let's nominate the guy that will beat B**h, not one of the guys that only might.

[Larkspur]

31. As a Northerner on both sides of my family, I resent Southern bigots

telling me who to vote for.

I support Al Gore in 2000, not because he was from the South, but because he was the most qualified person to be President, more qualified than Bill Clinton.

I won't support Clark. If he wins the primaries honestly, then I'll vote for him over Bush, but I WILL NEVER GIVE General "Manikin" Clark a penny of my hard earned money, nor will I work for his campaign. My enthusiasm for Dean is not transferrable to a Clintonista puppet.

[bowens43]

12. How can anyone think he isn't?

Clark's 'war hero' status as you call it, is a HUGE negative in my book. I sure as hell can't see a general running the country. You don't become a general by being liberal or progressive. You become a general by being a bigger SOB then the next guy. He has NO verifiable history. He has RECENTLY supported Republicans. He PRAISED the current administration and it's henchmen. He recently spoke out against the anti-war folks claiming that being anti-war is a big mistake. He spoke at republican fund raisers. He admitted that he would have been a republican if Rove had returned his calls. He flip flopped on the MOST important issue on his first day of campaigning. I see Clark as an opportunist who will do anything or say anything to become president. To me he comes of as insincere and mealy mouthed. I don't believe a word he says. Would Clark be preferable to bush? Maybe, maybe not. There's nothing concrete on which to base an opinion. We KNOW nothing about him. Nothing. Only what he says. What little history he has doesn't support the opinions he now claims to hold.

Legislative baggage? Do you mean experience? That's another thing Clark lacks (in addition to a verifiable history of supporting Dems and Dem causes).

There comes a time when 'beating bush' isn't enough. I won't toss aside my values just because a guy has a (D) next to his name on the ballet, especially when that (D) is so shiny and new.

[mikehiggins]

13. Well, there you have it

There comes a time when "beating bush" isn't enough.

That's where you part company with the ABB tour, dude.

When ABB people say they would vote for a ham sandwich before George Bush they aren't kidding.

We have to get Bozo out of the White House and as the Gods would have it, our best shot is Wes Clark.

Admittedly he may not be as pure as you would wish to salve your sensitive feelings but WTF? If its Clark vs Bush who are you going to vote for?

Can you possibly imagine four more years of this? I can, and I'd vote for that ham sandwich, or a general twice before I'd let that happen without at least trying to stop it.

Apparently, you aren't that concerned.

Pity. You seem like a good sort, otherwise.

[maxr4clark]

17. Thinking about Dean

Clark supporters like me have posted many, many, many times why we don't think Dean is as strong a candidate as Dean. The central issues in American politics for the next four years will be foreign policy. "War on Terror", as little George calls it. The occupation of Iraq. Israel-Palestine conflict. Rebuilding America's relationship with the rest of the world. AIDS policy. Finding a road to energy independence. International trade.

I can tell you off the top of my head what Clark's policy is for each of these. Can you tell me what Dean's are? I keep asking Dean supporters for an answer on this. What is it you like about Dean's policies on these issues? I like Clark's stated position on every one of these issues. Clark has the experience on these issues to make him a credible leader on these issues, the most important ones we will face for the next four years. As far as I can see, Dean doesn't.

Little George is an incumbent. If he doesn't have the mental capacity to speak clearly on one of these issues in the general election, one of the hundreds of thousands of people who work for the Executive Branch can say "what he really meant was...."

In order to be sure that little George doesn't get another four years, we need a candidate who has better ideas on these issues than the incumbent, and is a credible leader in these areas.

I don't only support Clark because he has support in the south that Dean appears to lack, and is therefore IMO a more electable candidate. I support him because I think he is the best person available to lead our country through the next four years.

If you can't say the same about Dean, you are supporting the wrong candidate. If you can't convince me that Dean will be a better leader for America than Clark, I see no reason to support Dean unless and until he becomes the best remaining candidate.

I invite you to convince me. If you can, great; I'll feel better about our chances of improving America in the next four years. Because right now, Dean is the front-runner for the Democratic nomination, and he doesn't look to me like he'll do as good a job of leading the country as he has of criticizing the administration.

So what do you like about Dean's positions, especially the ones that I listed above that I see as very important? I honestly want to know. I'm asking you, not the press, because you are someone who supports him as the best candidate. That is what this forum is for, anyway; sharing our views and beliefs with the goal that we end up with the right President.

If all you can tell me about Dean is that you don't like Bush and you don't like Clark, or Gephardt, or Kerry, or any of the other Dems, I can tell you right now I won't be convinced; and neither will enough of America to ensure little George loses.

[maxr4clark]

25. A deafening silence

This is what happens every time I ask Dean supporters to tell me what they like about Dean's vision for America: time passes, no answers.


I'm asking a serious question here, a really good question. If your silence means there really isn't a good answer, Dean should not be our nominee.

[Cheswick2.0]

19. hey, Clark is a good guy

but the reasons you listed are not the reasons I pick a candidate.

[cigarstore]

5. Dean is trying to have it both ways

[xultar]

7. I don't know why you even posted this...Dean has the nomination...

it is just a formality @ this point ot even hold the primaries. Clark is a better candidate, but that isn't what we want. We want a centrist who is pretending an angry leftie to win the nomination. Furthermore, after the "primaries" to atteempt to win Dean must then come from behind the curtains of OZ and tap dance to the center to attract the swing vote.

That strategy will never win because, the idealistic left that pushed the grassroots efforts will be miffed and the centrists will consider it a flip-flop. It is a no win situation.

We are stuck. I hope everyone is happy

[douginmarshall]

14. Just a formality?

This notion boggles my mind. Not a single vote has been cast. What percentage of the vote does New Hampshire and Iowa have? Are we just sheep that listen to these meaningless polls that says someone is ahead. Ahead of what? What are the percentages of e
ryone but Dean? Sure he is ahead but what will happen as others drop out?

The question that Dean supporters need to ask is how will Dean respond to Bush's plan to make him look like McGovern. If he can't it will look like 72 again.

[Kenneth ken]

15. well gosh,

if the Clinton team is behind Clark, I have even less interest in him being the Dem nominee.
on edit: I am not a Clinton fan. I am not a fan of the DLC. I wish Clinton would go away; do something useful perhaps, like join Carter's Habitat for Humanity.

I haven't paid any attention to the Clark campaign, but on the basis of this thread, I would move my level of support for him from indifferent to a tie with Lieberman as least-desirable.

[jmaier]

16. Don't go away from Clark just yet 'cause of Clinton

Let me say this once again: other than some kind words about Wes Clark, there is NO evidence of a Clintonista/DLC plot to push Wes Clark as the nominee. All we get are pundit opinions and many of those from freeper pundits who always love to stir up any Clinton gossip. Look for some reliable evidence of Clinton active backing in preference over ALL other candidates before leaping on or off this particular bandwagon.

We need to make some rational decisions around here and not jump on every rumor, misquote or out of context quote, minor verbal gaffe, etc. Sheesh, I thought WE were supposed to be the grownups!

Yes, Clark has some Clinton/Gore staffers. So do many of the candidates. Duh, Clinton/Gore then Gore ran the last 3 presidential campaigns so it stands to reason that these guys would go looking for work and receive some open arms. Enough said.

[Kenneth ken]

20. I'm not leaping

on or off the Clark bandwagon. I'm a solid Kucinich supporter. At this point, I don't even care about the other candidates. Once the nomination is determined, if I have to shift my support to someone else, that will be soon enough to read up on them, and decide how enthusiastically I can support them. I'm strongly leaning ABB, but there are some candidates I'd rather have in the "A" slot than others.

[Cheswick2.0]

18. I am a Clinton fan, however

I am a much bigger fan of Gore. So if we are drawing up sides based on which one is behind which candidate then Dean would get my support.

[mandyky]

21. Regarding 'his bad-back deferment '

For any civilians, who never served, there are some things the service requires recruits to do that a bad back would curtail.

1) Running 5 + miles per day in basic training
2) Carrying 75+ pound packs
3) Various daily calistetics

Skiing is a much different process that running. There is a difference betwwen skiing for fun occassionally and having your back problems be a matter of life or death for you and your comrades "in the trenches".

[DSkinner3]

23. Have you ever been skiing?

What a lame excuse you are trying to lay on us. What about his work laying concrete? I work in the construction industry, and know for a fact that cement work is just as hard if not harder on the back than running and calisthetics. Anyone doing this type of work will regularly be carrying 75+ pounds. Face it, your guy dodged the draft with his personal doctors note. Stupid stupid stupid people make me mad.

[Larkspur]

33. No, I've never been skiing and am not interested in it

but IT WAS THE MILITARY who gave Dean the 1 YR deferment. Dean DID NOT DODGE THE DRAFT. He told Russert that if the military drafted him, he would have joined, but the military made the decision, not Dean, to excuse him.

And speaking of skiing for pleasure, as with any pleasure sport, Dean could always stop at his convenience to rest or skip the day skiing if his back hurt. Can't do that in the militay. Remember Dean was not skiing for the Olympics, he was skiing for pleasure.

Back then, Dean was young and not sure of what his future held at the time. After that year off, he realized that his life was going nowhere and wanted to make something of his life. That is quite often a typical young male path to maturity. You don't have to be wealthy to be a bum. There a lots of poor and middle class bums in my town.

[DrFunkenstein]

24. Living In Aspen Is Hardly "Occasionally"

Dean could have done lots of things to contribute one way or another. He could have opposed the war actively, or he could have supported it in a non-combat avenue.

He didn't do any. He bummed around Aspen on his trust fund. No wonder he ended up in Vermont with the Phish heads.

[Larkspur]

29. Didn't Clinton dodge the draft?

Wasn't that one of the arguments Bush I made against Billy "boy" Clinton? Didn't work on Bill, won't work on Howard.

[Buffy]

32. Yes but Clinton also protested the war-

Dean apparently didn't care.

[Larkspur]

34. Clinton protested mildly from the saftey of Oxford College in England

Not exactly a big time protestor who risked prison or death at the hands of the National Guard.

[Zynx]

26. I don't like Clinton or the Democratic Establishment.

I've always disliked Bubba and Hillary. They are unscrupulous and their leadership has been very bad for the party. This is the same leadership that bungled what should have been an easy mid-term victory in 2002.

[Jack_Dawson]

35. Great Post - And SO True

Problem is, I don't think the Deanies are going to pull their heads out in time to realize it. Dean's campaign is certainly a locomotive, propelled by the right wing media and donations from both grass roots and corporate supporters. The tracks go over the cliff next Spring.

We are squandering the biggest gift ever handed the Democratic party. This is really hard to watch.

[Larkspur]

36. Ah, the ARROGANCE of the Pompous Prince supporters finally airs itself

We are squandering the biggest gift ever handed the Democratic party.

Spoken like a true pompous aristocrat.

Howard Dean may have come from a wealthy family, but Howard Dean has EARNED every endorsement, supporter, and dollar he's gotten. Howard Dean is the hardest working Democratic contender for the Presidency that we have right now and his efforts and strategy are paying BIG dividends for him, his supporters, and eventually the Democratic Party as a whole.

Unlike Generalismo Clark, Gov. Dean did not pretend to be the Dem Prez heir apparent, like Kerry, Gephardt, Lieberman, and Clark. Dean worked his butt off as well as had the good sense to make gutsy calls to propel his campaign forward. Too bad Clarkies are too blinded by those 4 stars to see the truth.

[Jack_Dawson]

37. Dude - Enjoy Losing 44-6

But you WILL win VT, NY, CA, OR, WA and MA. Nice work.

It's not about politically "earning" anything. Clark has earned more in one lifetime than Dean ever will in 1,000 trips to Aspen. It's not about "arrogance" either - whatever that's supposed to mean...

It's about REALITY. It's about a post 9/11 world. It's about making a still jittery public feel safer. And a ski bum who has never fired a BB gun simply doesn't fit the bill. But you go on ahead and vote for Dean. Vote with your heart. And enjoy a butt-whupping next November like you've never known.

I'll be writing to you myopians next November with my "I-told-you-so" holiday greetings. Take care now.

[Larkspur]

38. If Clark is so great, why isn't he running away with the nomination?

Could it be that Clark is a lousy civilian leader and people see him that way?

If Clark is the greatest thing since sliced bread for Democrats, why is he having such a hard time convincing us that he is?

Could it be that Gov. Howard Dean has the seasoned civilian leadership skills to defeat opponents whose egos are bigger than their talents?

[Jack_Dawson]

39. "Seasoned Civilian Leadership Skills"???

LOL C'mon now - I assume you're joking. Is this the same "seasoned" leader who referred to the Soviet Union four times on Hardball? Who characterized the entire south as gun-toting confederate flag-flying pickup-driving rednecks?

Clark has commanded battalions with larger populations than Vermont.

But to answer your question, there are several factors contributing to Dean's surge:

1) The Right-Wing media wants him to win the nomination for obvious reasons.

2) The Right-Wing media knows Clark would bitch-slap Bush back to Crawford, TX - and so they subsequently ignore him.

3) Clark had a late entry w/ some early stumbles, but has regained his footing and his numbers are picking up.

4) Al Gore's premature endorsement.

5) Dean supporters mob mentality fed by the right-wing media