The Left should stop itself from becoming like the Right.

[Homer12]

This post is meant to be a discussion about what will happen if we use the same tactics and abuse ethical tactics that the right has armed themselves with. Unfourtunatly I see it happening on DU, myself included. I am not free from the action of taking pleasure in the downfall of our ideological polerized Brothers and Sisters on the right.

For instance the recall: We all know that the right is branding this new weapon as a way to over-turn elections. They are right it is/was/can be a democratic process if used ethicaly and for teh right reasons. As we can see the Right has found a way to use the Media to out-rage people to have hastily and quickly made recall elections for a minority of determeined voters. California is the ultimate partisan recall to date.
They did this masterfully for the Milwaukee Pension scandal (although it had great validity, the Right in my city twisted it for pure partisan gain, and now we have a privitization nazi called Scott Walker in office).

Now, should the left use this same tactic as partisan as they do? I know we have to fight back, but using this tactic makes the entire electoral system a fraud if it can be over-turned with such a minority voting in it.


The new Liberal Media in books and internet Radio (in a way, let me explain before you judge) reminds me of the 1990's when the Right-Wing attack media got going. We know, The Real Anita Hill, David Brock, Luara Ingram, AM Hate Radio, etc...
Now by no means am I comparing the hatred and abject abuse of persuasive speech of most of the right at his time and even now. No, the new left/liberal media we have now learned many lessons from them about having real integrity when it comes to naming sources, using real facts, and letting us make up our own minds. Even Al Franken, one of the biggest critics, feels sorry for Rush Limbaugh. We would never see this sort of campssion from the right.
I just see that we are at a critical point with our new media and we have to make SURE we don't support oppurtunistic carrer driven people like the right-wing media has (Ann C., Hannity, Rush, O'Reilly, etc...), these oppurtunistic people are the ones whom would take it over the edge and ruin any of our gains. Afterall, we don't ahve to make anything up, or twist any facts, the Bush Adminisration gives us enough ammunition everyday.

Beleive me, the right is trying to turn us into them (as far as the use of dirty politics, abuse of ethics, etc...), it will just make it easier for them to attack us.
Before the 2000 election I heard Rush L. say that they had to win by any-means-neccessary (and so they did). Due to the fake/created/ preconception that thats how liberals and the left play the game of politics. In other words Rush said in order to beat them (us, the left) they had to become like us (obviously that didn't work at all, did it, since we were never that way in the first place).


We have to fight back, but with honor and integrity, armed with humor, facts, and knowledge.
We must not become like the Right to defeat the Right. If this happens, the left/liberals/ and all progressives will become no better than the right.

[Cappurr]

1. I both agree and disagree

We certainly don't need screamers like O'Reilley and Limbaugh or flat our liers like Coulter. But we do need people who talk straight, are willing to fight fire with fire, point out hypocracy, even if it involves sex, etc. Al Franken would be great. So would Begalia or Carvelle. I love Bill Press, but sometimes he is just too damn polite. He lets people interrupt and lets them get away without answering the questions.

Clinton of course, would be amazing....but its probably not a good idea except as an occassional guest.

This right wing lunatics stack their audiences, won't let the interviewer finish a sentence, much less a question, have all their talking points on the tips of their tounges and if a question is just too tough, they simply won't answer. They say you need to ask the Justice Department or something. :eyes:

[DBoon]

2. We need the passion and determination, not the methods

We need strong angry representative of our cause, who can speak to ordinary folks with passion and integrity.

We need to empower people, not bludgeon or frighten them.

We need more left-wing populists

[On the Road]

3. Keep the History of Revolutions in Mind

Revolutions of all stripes have lost their credibility and their support by abuse of their new-found power, and by conducting vendettas against their opponents.

France, Russia, Cambodia, and China all turned into horror shows after overthrowing illegitimate governments. The United States did not, partly because power was distributed and was abused less as a result. But these are in the minority -- Ethiopia is one of the few others that come to mind.

Changes of the political guard are also fraught with peril. The Gingrich revolution could have been more successful had it not been so nasty and overreaching. FDR's revolution did not share that spirit, and lasted longer as a result.

So by all means, the Democrats should fight to win the elections in 2004 and legislative battles along the way. But "win at all costs" is not the best attitude in this system to hold onto a long-term majority.

[Homer12]

4. Ribofunk, Thanks for the historical persepective.

It puts things into a more long-term context.

[lovedems]

7. I agree but regardless of how the democrats decide

to get their message out, it will be portrayed by the republicans as "win at all costs". That is the shame of arguing with a republican. They accuse people of actions that they, themselves created.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

11. And it's only rarely that Dems call them on it

We see the hypocrisy, but people who aren't political junkies need it pointed out to them that the Republicans are hardly the ones to talk about "unfair tactics."

[lovedems]

5. I totally see your point

however, I think we are entitled anger and hostility. Things have gone down the toilet in this country since Bush stole the election. He promised us jobs, he lied to go to war with Iraq, Saddam and Bin Laden are still on the loose after billions of dollars spent and people killed, we are in record number deficits, the environment takes a back seat to corporate greed, we have been lied to countless times...my list could go on. I am angry and I don't like this administration for what it has done not only to our country but to the world. I don't think my hate is equal to the kind of hate that seeps out of every pore of a neocon, but I am angry enough to attack this administration and hold them accountable for what they have done. I agree that it should be done with facts and humor and so on but sometimes, when you are so angry (as I suspect many people are) you take delight in watching a bad guy fall and it is hard to play fair when the other side is so dirty. If the neocons get a taste of what it is like to constantly be attacked, so be it. On a final thought, playing fair and with facts and humor is not in this administrations rule book. There are times when you have to fight fire with fire.

[candy331]

8. Courage is

acting in spite of fear. It takes courage to speak out when you know something is wrong and bringing harm to others. I don't approve of the yelling and screaming matches but I don't believe in hiding and keeping silent letting the chickenhawk walk off with the chickens just to show that you are not like they are. I have had many of conversations with unreasonable people but I am not going to be silenced because i might look like them. It doesn't take yelling, screaming, cursing, just state the facts leave that others to them and you will be remembered for your facts and they'll be remembered for stupid conduct. The truth and facts will stand on their own merit but hot air soon dissipates. I agree fighting fire with fire sometimes is the only answer but to know when to use that fire and know what temperature to take it to is the key.

[lovedems]

9. very eloquently put!

Thanks, I couldn't agree with you more. There is a fine balance in getting your point across to people who generally don't get the point. On top of that, they don't listen. I have confidence that we will find that balance. I just have to get over being passionatly angry at this administration and all of the neocons that surround it.

[Qutzupalotl]

6. Great post.

Especially that last sentence. We have to aim higher than they do.

[rucky]

10. Missed Opportunities

When We Have The High Ground, We Never Use It Until It's Too Late:

Patriot Act
Iraq Resolution
87Billion?
Davis Recall

We could've fought more quickly and forcefully on all of these issues - all without a sense of vindictiveness. There will be plenty more opportunities to come. It would be a shame if the lesson we've learned at this point is to sink to their level. We just have to use what we've got more vigorously. And what we've got is truth.

Stop going on Hardball... Trash Fox... Trash Bush... Don't let ANY lie go. Take them all to task. But don't lie and don't subvert the system - we don't have to.

It would be a shame if the lesson we've learned is to drop to their level.