What do the neocons hope to achieve?

[UncleJoe]

Okay, we all agree the neocons are wrong and dangerous, that they are willing to fight wars and kill so many people, that some of the had a hand in 9/11. I want to know why. Do they just love war? Do they want to build an empire? Are neocons just a name given to those who have accepted the need for endless war to keep the defence industry going? What is their endpoint here?

We know neocons do bad things. I dont think anyone knows WHAT their plan is yet.

[Maat]

1. I haven't figured it out...

I know about Project for a New American Century and how they have wanted to invade Iraq for many years. I know that they sent Clinton a letter and a suggested plan.

But I just can't get inside their heads. Why would they want imperialism....and the breaking of international law, international law we set up.

[zonmoy]

10. Simple

its to grab all the oil and all the profits until industrial civilization dies from lack of energy.(peak oil)

[ArchSight]

42. Ultimate power

They want to destroy the enemy. It's inherit in aggression. They have been thwarted time and time again over the last eight years in beating down a threat they feel has every moral right to be crushed underfoot so they can feel safe in knowing they have secured the walls and doors. They like the terrorist want to remain steeped in a cultural time lock where everyone knew their place under their rules of class and society boundaries. Failure to do so is reprehisible and despised without a hint of mercy beyond lip service to achieve their goals of dominance and control over the enviroment they share in. They need God though..., yet ...God is a God of Love : it does not serve their ultimate purpose and mantra so even those distinct teachings of Christ are fair game to be turned into an advantage and rally for severe moral high grounds for brutality against any who oppose the Conservative cause as to date.

[pink_poodle]

2. world domination which equates to tons of power and MONEY. -nm

"

[stepnw1f]

3. To split the democratic votes...

by exagerating differences in the Dem candidates to the point where if one candidate is not elected then those votes never carry over to the other. It's their only hope right now. They may get their wish.

[MajorFlaw]

4. Have you considered simple greed as a motive

[Zhade]

27. Greed, power, geostrategic influence...lots of reasons.

NT!

[DieboldMustDie]

5. Armageddon

:mad:

[zonmoy]

9. I have no doubt about that one.

[Newsjock]

6. Rapture

And we're not talkin' about a Blondie revival here, either.

I'm serious.

[david_vincent]

7. Ever see the movie Shane?

The bad guys were really just trying to defend a way of life that had run its course and was being forced to change. Shane saw that the days of open range were over, but the bad guys couldn't see that. They wanted the good old days to go on forever.
I think there's a number of neocons who do actually want Armageddon to happen so the Second Coming will finally arrive. But I think the leading neocons simply are trying to defend a way of life that is being forced to change. That way of life is the one that Americans have enjoyed since the end of WWII. We built our country on cheap oil and spent money we didn't have by just printing more of it. Now, in order to prop up the rotten foundation of our standard of living, the decision has been made to try to corner what's left of the world's oil reserves and defend the dollar's hegemony by any means necessary. I think they're basically playing for time. Oil is just going to go up and up in price, and they want the U.S. to have control of it for as long as it takes for us to develop some other energy system that can be made to function (and distributed) as cheaply and as profitably as oil. In the meantime, we have to defend the dollar against the Euro so that foreign investment will continue to be attracted here and help keep us treading water so we don't slip beneath the waves.
The fact of the matter is that American society is going to be subjected to significant change in areas that we usually take for granted. The neocons are either in denial about this, or are fighting a rearguard action to delay the changes until we can shift gears smoothly, without letting our standard of living drop much and with as little social upheaval and violence as possible.

[newharper]

31. High time for a single GCC currency

Seen this,

'There has been a fair amount of scepticism towards the proposed Corporation Council for the Arab states of the Gulf single currency'

'A strong, independent, single GCC currency is likely to attract increased levels of foreign direct investment to the region and facilitate the invoicing of some oil and gas sales in Gulf dinars.'

'The currency could well be viewed by some Arab and Islamic states as a more "acceptable" reserve currency than that of the US dollar.

'The notion that it would be too difficult to set up a market for invoicing oil sales in any currency other than the dollar is quite frankly ridiculous, and is largely being propagated by those with a vested interest in the current petrodollar hegemony.'

http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/6472D68F-7D5D-4F37-A7AE-C345CEF5117B.htm

I think the Saudis are very pissed off and this is a shot across the bows, but the threat to trade Oil in Euros is a potent weapon given the US trade deficit.

[gold_bug]

8. a century of US hegemony

which of course will mean peace & prosperity for the US and the rest of the world too.
;)

[oxbow]

28. That's it. Since the cold war ended,

...the US is the one remaining superpower. Neocons want to keep it that way at whatever cost. This means getting to vital resources before China, Russia and other major players do and maintaining a global military presence to protect those interests. The Middle East is the key to maintaining global hegemony today.

[amber dog democrat]

11. Its about the standard of living and security

Above all else. This war HAS to be about oil to some extent.

[reprehensor]

12. UncleJoe...

Just wanted to bring this speech by Congressman Ron Paul to your attention if you haven't read it.

Yes, Ron Paul was very vocal about taking down Clinton. Yes, he is a Libertarian, who runs as a Republican to keep his seat.

That being said, this is one the most cogent dissections of the Neos out there.

http://www.house.gov/paul/congrec/congrec2003/cr071003.htm

In answer to your question, world hegemony, by force. Kiss the constitution bye-bye.

Another informative article.
The Strong Must Rule the Weak.
http://www.commondreams.org/headlines03/0508-02.htm

[ulTRAX]

26. thanks

Thanks for posting that Leo Strauss article. I sent it to some friends last summer but lost it.

[wolfgirl]

13. What they want...

It's to assure that we (the people identified in the Constitution)
serve those in power. They are working quite successfully in
keeping us frightened about terrorist while they dismantle any & all programs that benefit us.

Secondly, the neocons are not just here in the USA...they have no borders and sit on the board of directors of world-wide corporations that have the world in their grasp. A fascinating book is the "Rich and the Super Rich" It's 20+ yrs old, but spells it out for you to see what has been an ongoing effort to dominate and control everything.

We shouldn't be worried about race, religion, color, sexual orientation...it's about the money and the power. Until we accept the fact that we are in the midst of a struggle between the "haves" and the "have nots"...and the unite...we are lost.

I'm scared..not for myself, but for my sons and the future. A future that should be full of hope, but is steadily one of worry and despair.

[drthais]

14. here's some concrete info

just posted this seperately
but it is relevant here...

http://www.truthout.org/docs_04/022304B.shtml

[Cary]

15. I don't think they're as homogeneous as that.

Certainly the far right is solidly in their camp and it exerts a lot of influence. These people are really scary but probably not in control. In fact I don't think you can identify the far right with "neo-cons".

What makes a neo-con, I think, is the belief that the only way to deal with Arabs is to conquer them and dominate them. In fact, I think they think we have to dominate the whole world.

Inherent in that belief is the belief that our way of life is the right way of life.

There are a number of good books that spell out the neo-con plan. IMHO, if their assumptions were correct I have no problem with the mainstream neo-con goal. IMHO, it will never work. War is the foreign policy of the incompetent. War unleashes all sorts of forces, and this is where I get scared about the extreme right wingers.

The extreme right wing agenda is clear, too: a Christian nation that adheres exclusively to their interpretation of what a Christian nation is and should be.

[ThePittsburghKid]

16. The impact of Neo-conservatism is starting to grow deeper

I'm a political science major, and in my international relations class last week, my professor announced that felt he had to add a new theory on intl. relations to the class due to the Bush doctrine, and he expected it to be come part of the literature and the Poli Sci field. He basically reviewed the tenets of the Neo-Cons and dubbed it "Radical Nationalism".

The fact that Neo-Conservatism is becoming a school of thought that is expected to remain along side Realism and Liberalism shakes me to my core. It's like it's receiving intellectual approval.

[Cary]

17. Interesting, Kid

What are the tenets of "Radical Nationalism"? Who are the purveyors, according to your professor? I assume it starts with the fellows at the University of Chicago--Leo Strauss and the other guy. I also assume Irving and William Kristol fit in there, as well as Wolfowitz and Perle, et al.

Frankly I'm less concerned about ideas than I am about actual implementation of those ideas. It never hurts to hear ideas, per se. In fact one should understand one's enemies.

And, of course, if the idea is being presented as something that is discredited or flawed, it may ultimately be a good thing.

I am interested in hearing your response.

[spinmaster]

18. Neo-Cons formed after Civil Rights

It appears that racism, driven underground by the Civil Rights movement, has secretly embodied itself in a Political Philosophy. Which is why I'm a Democrat. There's no room for this type of agenda in any political party, save the French Fascists, therefore Neo-Cons hide behind mystical rhetoric covering their true intent.

Or, since many DEM voters are 'of color', they attack programs and laws which benefit them out of spite.

In my opinion...

[mac2]

20. This gang is out to take away everyone's rights but the few

[newyawker99]

39. Hi spinmaster!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[ThePittsburghKid]

21. The tenets of Radical Nationalism

are basically what we understand as typical Neo-Con positions, but "benevolent hegemony" is what is considered the main motivation of Radical Nationalism, as presented by my professor. Others tenets involve presenting American positions on issues as "righteous", or even "infallible". As you noted, Strauss, the Krisols, Wolfowitz, and Perle are considered the intellectual fathers of RN; Bush, Cheney, Rove, and Rumsfield are those considered actually to have implemented the ideas in government policy.

I concur with you on the implementation of ideas vs. mere ideas, but allow me to slightly expand on my previous post, which, admittedly, was unclear on what I wanted to say. I didn't expect that RN would come to the point it would be a major school of thought in international relations theory so quickly. It seemed to me, even though RN is a major shift in American policy, it seemed to me that the impact is greater than I expect. I could understand if the theory was added to the canon after frequent implementation in policy over the course of many years, but the acceptance of the theory so quickly shocked me, merely because other theories of international relations have been around for hundreds of years, and it usually takes awhile for the practices to gain acceptance in the field and literature.

[Marie26]

37. Neocon 101

That is a little shocking, but maybe it makes sense considering all the impact this philosophy is having on our country today. I actually think it's good that colleges are teaching about what this group is about; most Americans still don't know what "neoconservatism" is. We can't fight it if we don't know what it is. It seems like we're still struggling for a name - is it "neoconservatism," "radical nationalism," "imperialism"? I say we just call it it's real name - facism.

I also have a question, if anyone knows. How many neocons are there really? As a political base, it seems pretty much nonexistant. Maybe 20% of Republicans are fundamentalists, for example, but what percent are neoconservative? Are any? Somehow I don't think there's a lot of neocons in states like Kansas or Ohio that won the election for Bush. From what I can see, the neoconservative movement seems to consist entirely of a handful of far-right intellectuals from the Univ. of Chicago. I'm not sure if there are a 100 true neocons in the entire country. Yet they determine our foreign policy, and our fate as a nation. It's so completely undemocratic.

And finally, is Bush a neocon? He didn't sign PNAC, doesn't seem to care about foreign policy, but does like wars. Is he on board w/the neocon philosophy, or is he just a figurehead that's being used to further a different agenda. Thanks!

[anti-NAFTA]

23. neoconservatism is not radical nationalism; it's the opposite.

We're not talking about Hitler or imperialists who want to conquer for the good of America or at least American industries. These people want America to fight wars for Ariel Sharon. They're not nationalists. They couldn't give a shit about this country.

[carl_pwccaman]

29. They aren't lackeys for Ariel Sharon

What makes you think some two-bit country in the Middle East is calling the shots?

There's tons of oil money, American Geopolical strategic interests with oil and presence in the region, and philosophical interests from a particularly militant and in my view distorted form of Straussianism, to ideological/religious interests of millenialists/Left Behind believers, to old alliances with Saudi Royals, to all kinds of other things involved, besides little old Sharon. To ignore the others in favor of him, is to loose perspective completely.

[mac2]

19. World Union..

With Neo Con...World Bankers and a few wealthy elite ruling the world for power and profit.

They say their PNAC..Plan for New American Century would bring peace with trade, etc. That is not what is happening or will happen. They lie...is that new?

The Americas Union (all of our Continent under FTAA government/trade like the EU)is elder Bush's dream before he dies. It's not democracy but fascism. Forget about what we want..it is "their" dream. The capital of the Americas planned for Janurary 2005? In Miami, FL. The leader planned, Jeb Bush.

That's what the people were in the streets about in Miami from all over the world...WTO. they oppose the World Union taking away their countries border right of home rule, civil rights, resources, etc. for profit of a few Neo Cons.

They have been protesting in the EU (part of the World Union) also because is negates worker's rights under a new Constitution. The leader is a media thug from Italy.

Forget that only a few CEO Royals will rule. They'll have more wealth and power than the kings of old (with less accountability or responsibility for their surfs). We? Will be living under fascism and slavery.

I can not see this working...but causing all kinds of riots (like in Haiti right now). We will all go down together. Tyranny always fails in the end..everyone suffers. It's a bad plan.

I had hoped for a better world in the 21st Century. Seems the Bush crime family had other plans for it.

Worse thing. They use our money to gain control over us!!!

Right now, they are concentrating on distracting us with gay marriage, abortion, war, hate, etc. so they can slip this by us.

[anti-NAFTA]

22. Their plan is to

use America to allow Israel to conquer and expand.

[carl_pwccaman]

30. Why?

Why focus so much on Israel? That's a bit odd, if you ask me. Are you an anti-semite or obsessed or something?

[Dancing_Dave]

24. They want to rule the whole world

Just like Hitler and Napoleon did!
:think:

[ulTRAX]

25. rolling back the 20th century

I don't think their agenda is that difficult to understand... after all they write about it at such web sites as
http://www.newamericancentury.org/

Check out the members who signed this letter in 98: http://www.newamericancentury.org/iraqclintonletter.htm

Here's a good article from The Nation called "Turning back the 20th Century"

http://www.thenation.com/docprint.mhtml?i=20030512&s=greider

[Indy Lurker]

32. Which Neocons?

It seems like there are 4 types:

1. Type A control freaks = use of drugs is bad, and must be outlawed the more law and order the better.

2. Greedy Rich / Low tax = Govt Programs are bad because they cost me money and I don't use any.

3. Religious Cult Followers = My minister said liberals are sinful and wicked, and I must oppose them.

4. Racist / Xenophobes / Christians only = I would be better off if others weren't given preferences, and I don't like other who aren't like me.

Actually as a group, they kinda remind me of the anti-communist's of the 1950.


Which is kinda funny, as that was the last time they were in power.

(not ha-ha funny, but more like "funny, that looks like a piano falling on us.")

I think neocons only make up 5-10% of the right, the rest are sheeple in various states of facing reality.

[Thom Little]

33. Neocons hope to achieve an ignorant public. It's our job to expose them.

[Odin2005]

34. Neo-cons are rabid adherents to the "End of History" doctrine.

They think the fall of the USSR has ment the supremecy of Neo-liberal capitalist "democracy" for all time and that it is America's job to enforce Neo-Liberal orthodoxy on dissenters by millitary force.

[Marie26]

35. World Domination

BWHAAHAHAA! (evil laugh). Honestly, I think this is their goal. They think of America as a new-style Rome that can spread its "democracy" by taking over other countries & forming a new empire. Iraq is just the first step in their little dream. How they think they are going to do this w/o having the troops, money, or internal support is beyond me, but that doesn't mean they won't try.

[frankly_fedup2]

36. World domination while staying the only Super Power by continuing to

build up the military. PNAC says it all. William Kristol (Scooter Libby's dear, dear friend that is going to get him off whether it is true or not), started this so-called think tank.

They believe in preemptive strike as well as they want to control the World's oil; therefore, they must control the middle East. This will never happen. Even Alexander the Great could not dominate these people. They may not have the military technology; however, they have human beings willing to carrying a bomb on them and walk into a school. Also, they now have Iraqi's who the U.S. soldiers have been training in warfare. They will do to us what they did to us on 9/11. They will use our own weapons against us. They will lie, kill, steal, whatever it takes to kill Americans.

For some reason in their religion it is okay to lie, steal, murder, torture, become Martyrs killing only other muslims during war time. They will then smile and hold up a purple finger for the camera while at the same time the only reason there was no violence and so many people voted was because they were told that if they all did vote, the more that voted, the sooner the Americans would leave. It wasn't a vote for a democracy, it was used as propaganda on our news; however, the truth was they were proud to show their other countrymen and women that they did what they could to get rid of the occupiers.

China and Russia are working together against Bush, but in the long run, it will be the American People. I just hope the new Democratic President that is honestly voted into office will not have such a hate-filled relationship with the World.

China and Russia hate Bush but he has named them the "most favored nation for trade" as well as their buying a lot of our debt. Their huge trade profit is helping to build their arsenol and Bush knows this, and so do those in charge. Bush is aware and so is the people that tell him what to say, where to stand, and put one foot in front of the other. He is the greatest moronic leader the free World has ever seen. He has been an embarrassment to this country since he was coronated into office in 2000. Then with 9/11 and so many unansweed questions.

Bush is not out giving speeches (always in front of the military so he won't be booed off the stage) to try to save his legacy or get better approval ratings. No, Bush and Cheney are out there trying to keep from getting Impeached. With a lot of Republicans crossing the isle to agree with the Democrats regarding the way that Bush, Cheney, Rumsfield, Rice, and at that time Colon Powell as well (who is so trying to distance himself from Bush as much as possible now), who used those stupid "sketches" as evidence. It was Powell's speech in front of the U.N. that finally convinced the Congress. I think the House and then the Senate felt we were in imminent danger when Powell, a decorated general who has been in the trenches with other soldiers and has seen the ugliness of war, claimed this war was necessary. I have always heard those generals sit and state that war is the last resort and they never take the troops into harms way. Well, Colon Powell had a price too . . .

[Name removed]

38. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[SkiGuy]

40. see PNAC

[Sarah Ibarruri]

41. What the Neo-Cons hope to achieve -

Two thoughts on this topic -

1) Read The Handmaid's Tale
2) I think conservatives is what happens when psychotics and people who grew up abused, get together and form a political group.