I need a good anti-Bush offensive...Please help

[1jfuddle]

I have been involved with a thread in a forum where I am the only Democrat(or even the only non-ultra-conservative). I have been holding my own against attacks. It is time for an offensive. I need some help comming up with ideas. It is just a generic us verses them thread, but if you want to see it, here is the thread. Make sure to read past the first 2 pages, it doesn't heat up 'till about page 3...
http://www.ufba.org/forum/index.php?topic=7656.0

Lets hit 'em hard. (I know the temptation is to just say so what, what a bunch of dumbasses, but I am a part of this club, and feel a desire to kick some ass).

[patrice]

1. You probably don't want to do religion, but . . .

they are often FULL of religious contradictions and blasphemy.

1. Jesus died rather than make war.
2. He died also because he went against the religious authorities of the time.
3. Abortion is bad because it kills innocents, but they judge, apparently, that Iraqi children are not innocents, and "Judgement is mine saith the Lord."
4. When the "higher father" tells you to do something, he's telling YOU, not for you to tell others to do it. This is the meaning of the life of Christ.
5. Thou shalt not kill - Old Testament
6. Those who live by the sword die by the sword - Jesus in the New Testament.

I know there's more . . . .

[taxidriver]

2. ask them

how their lives have benefited, personally, since bush has been in office. and 600 dollars in tax rebates doesn't count.
:eyes:

[SlavesandBulldozers]

3. some ideas

Ask them if:

-the war in Iraq has made us safer against terrorism.

-getting rid of dictatorships, and being a global police force is America's job, why do we leave all the other dictatorships in place. Why Iraq? Why not North Korea? WHY NOT SAUDI ARABIA (besides the fact they are Bush's best friends).

-they know how many Saudis were on the planes that destroyed the WTC and hit the pentagon. Ask them if they know how many Iraqis were on those planes.

-cutting taxes with a national defense expenditure exceeding 300 billion dollars/yr is a good idea.

-cutting taxes while we spend $10million/day in Iraq (which has nothing to do with Al Qaeda) is a good idea.

-its fair that they pay 30% of their wages to taxes, while somebody who makes 8million a year pays 8%.

-they know that the top 1% own 50% of the wealth of this country. Leaving roughly 99% of the population owning 50% of the wealth.

-they consider spending upwards of 100billion dollars to create a Shi'a Theocracy (not a democracy) in Iraq is money they consider to be well spent.

-they know one historical example of a democracy being forced upon a people.

-they know why Bush would allow flights from the US after Sept.11th, by Saudi nationals - some related directly to binLaden, when the rest of the nation was GROUNDED.

[othermeans]

4. Ask them how many Republican Senators or Congressmen have kids in

Iraq. None. There is one a Democrat. Johnson from Sout Dakota Ask them if they think its a good idea if the Diebold (mfg. of voting machines) CEO contributed thousands to Bush-no conflict of democracy I guess. Ask them if Bush said: "All Sadam must do is disarm and there will be no war."

Ask waht happened to the 5.6 TRILLION dollars that was the budget surplus that Greenspan and his former Secretary of the Treasury Paul O'Neill was going to use to reform Social Security and Medicare.

Ah...screw it.

None are so blind as they who will not see.

[drb]

5. Just tell them that Bush and Rumsfeld are clearly still on track ...

...to win the hearts and minds of the Iraqi people - we're just taking a broomstick detour through their assholes.

[Speck Tater]

6. Just tell them...

... That Bush is a big old poopie head. That should settle it once and for all.

[indigobusiness]

7. plenty of ammo

in the Sludge Report

http://sludgereport.blogspot.com/

[never cry wolf]

8. I got the same thing in an email

My replies were in blue, I don't know how to transfer that to du posts but I put them in italics so you should be able to discern which is which. Please overlook my mis-spellings and typos as I pounded this out in about 40 minutes. below is my loooong response:

interesting, but factually incorrect

Republican Theodore Roosevelt, 26th US President:
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”

-----------------------------------------------

Republican Dwight D. Eisenhower, from his farewell address, 1961:
"This conjunction of an immense military establishment and a large arms industry is new in the American experience. The total influence -- economic, political, even spiritual -- is felt in every city, every State house, every office of the Federal government. We recognize the imperative need for this development. Yet we must not fail to comprehend its grave implications. Our toil, resources and livelihood are all involved; so is the very structure of our society.

In the councils of government, we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the militaryindustrial complex. The potential for the disastrous rise of misplaced power exists and will persist.

We must never let the weight of this combination endanger our liberties or democratic processes. We should take nothing for granted. Only an alert and knowledgeable citizenry can compel the proper meshing of the huge industrial and military machinery of defense with our peaceful methods and goals, so that security and liberty may prosper together."


------------------------------------------------


Why of course the people don't want war. Why should some poor slob on a farm want to risk his life in a war when the best he can get out of it is to come back to his farm in one piece? Naturally the common people don't want war.... That is understood. But, after all, it is the leaders of the country who determine the policy and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy, or a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the peacemakers for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country.

Herman Goering, during the Neurenberg trials.

-------------------------------------------------

"If we let our vision of the world go forth, and we embrace it entirely,
and we don't try to piece together clever diplomacy but just wage total war, our children will sing great songs about us years from now."

- Richard "Prince of Darkness" Perle (One of the PNAC founders, Chairman of the Defense Policy Board, and yes, that is his real nickname in DC!)

-------------------------------------------------

From the March 18 Good Morning America interview with former First Lady Barbara Bush, as quoted by Jimmy Breslin, when she was asked if she and former President Bush watched television:


"Why should we hear about body bags and deaths and how many, what day it's going to happen, and how many this or what do you suppose? Oh, I mean, it's, not relevant. So why should I waste my beautiful mind on something like that?"

---------------------------------------------------

"If this were a dictatorship, it'd be a heck of a lot easier, just as long as I'm the dictator."---George W. Bush, 18 December 2000
----- Original Message -----



Worst president in history?




(The following appeared in the Durham, NC local paper )

Letter to the editor:
Please forward to all on your list as this will put things in perspective:)
Liberals claim President Bush shouldn't have started this war.
They complain about his prosecution of it.
One liberal recently claimed Bush was the worst president in U.S history.




Let's clear up one point: President Bush didn't start the war on terror.
No, he abandoned the war on terror by preparing to attach iraq which had NOTHING to do with 9/11. he illegally diverted $700 mil, recon and intel from going after the guy who DID do 9/11, osama in afghanastan to prep for sadaam who was fully contained and a danger to NO ONE!
Try to remember, it was started by terrorists BEFORE 9/11.
Let's look at the "worst" president and mismanagement claims.



FDR led us into World War II.
Germany never attacked us: Japan did.
From 1941-1945, 450,000 lives were lost,
an average of 112,500 per year.
FDR rightly declared war on Japan, 3 days later germany declared war on us. kind of a just war anyway, here was a true threat to the world with the greatest, most modern military in history to that point who had taken over half the world at the point of a gun.
Truman finished that war and started one in Korea.
North Korea never attacked us.
From 1950-1953, 55,000 lives were lost,
an average of 18,333 per year.
The communist north backed by stalin and mao invaded our ally the democratic south, we defended our ally with full UN backing.
John F. Kennedy started the Vietnam conflict in 1962.
Vietnam never attacked us.
The administration of President Dwight D. Eisenhower undertook instead to build a nation from the spurious political entity that was South Vietnam by fabricating a government there, taking over control from the French, dispatching military advisers to train a South Vietnamese army, and unleashing the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) to conduct psychological warfare against the North. http://www.english.uiuc.edu/maps/vietnam/causes.htm
Republican - Robert McNamara's 11 lessons from Vietnam written in 1995
• We misjudged then — and we have since — the geopolitical intentions of our adversaries … and we exaggerated the dangers to the United States of their actions.
• We viewed the people and leaders of South Vietnam in terms of our own experience … We totally misjudged the political forces within the country.
• We underestimated the power of nationalism to motivate a people to fight and die for their beliefs and values.
• Our judgments of friend and foe alike reflected our profound ignorance of the history, culture, and politics of the people in the area, and the personalities and habits of their leaders.
• We failed then — and have since — to recognize the limitations of modern, high-technology military equipment, forces and doctrine…
• We failed as well to adapt our military tactics to the task of winning the hearts and minds of people from a totally different culture.
• We failed to draw Congress and the American people into a full and frank discussion and debate of the pros and cons of a large-scale military involvement … before we initiated the action.
• After the action got under way and unanticipated events forced us off our planned course … we did not fully explain what was happening and why we were doing what we did.
• We did not recognize that neither our people nor our leaders are omniscient. Our judgment of what is in another people's or country's best interest should be put to the test of open discussion in international forums. We do not have the God-given right to shape every nation in our image or as we choose.
• We did not hold to the principle that U.S. military action … should be carried out only in conjunction with multinational forces supported fully (and not merely cosmetically) by the international community.
• We failed to recognize that in international affairs, as in other aspects of life, there may be problems for which there are no immediate solutions … At times, we may have to live with an imperfect, untidy world.
• Underlying many of these errors lay our failure to organize the top echelons of the executive branch to deal effectively with the extraordinarily complex range of political and military issues.
Johnson turned Vietnam into a quagmire
From 1965-1975, 58,000 lives were lost,
an average of 5,800 per year.
agreed, it was a sensless useless war that achieved nothing, you would hope we would have learned from history. BTW: in the first 3 years of nam we lost about 400 GI's, as compared to 700 in iraq in little over a year.
Clinton went to war in Bosnia without UN or French consent.
Bosnia never attacked us.
But we went in with NATO as a peacekeeping operation and under Gen. Wesley Clark lost ZERO soldiers.
He was offered Osama bin Laden's head on a platter three times by Sudan and did nothing.
These reports has been patently discounted by the PRESIDENTIAL 9/11 commission.
Osama has attacked us on multiple occasions.
Over 2,900 lives lost on 9/11.
yes, while our fearless leader walked into a classroon 15 minutes after the first plane hit to read a story abour a pet goad. after the 2nd plane hit he continued for another 15 minutes before running off to a bunker in nebraska. Clinton was in australia when the planes hit and despite the nationwide grounding of flights (except for bush's business partneres, the bin laden family and the saudi royal family who were allowed to collect and fly out on 9-12) and HE made it to ground zero before bunnypants.
http://www.takebackthemedia.com/true911.html





In the two years since terrorists attacked us,


President Bush has liberated two countries, liberated? that's a joke, right? there's an oil exec named as our puppet in afghan, only the capitol is in control, osama is still on the loose and opium production is at an all time high. a man convisted of bank fraud is the titual head of iraq (chalabi), on june 1 when we transfer "power" the iraqi's we install will not have control of their own security forces, not be able to make new laws or sign contracts.
crushed the Taliban, crippled al-Qaida,
put nuclear inspectors in Lybia, Iran and North Korea without firing a shot,
captured a terrorist who slaughtered 300,000 of his own people. ya know who sold sadaam his wmd's? ronnie raygun and his special envoy rumsfeld. we encouraged their use against iran. also, after GWI we encouraged the kurds a shias to revolt against sadaam and told em we had their back. when sadaam wanted to put the revolt down in the no-fly zones in the north and south he asked permission to fly helicopters with gas and bush I gave him that permission, the result was the mass graves this admin touts.
We lost 600 soldiers, an average of 300 a year um, er, over 700 now in less than a year, not counting the way they hide the other casualties and deaths. if a soldier is injured in a fight and dies later in the hospital he is not counted as a battlefiled death. if a humvee flips dodging to avoid an attack and soldiers are killed, they are not battlefield deaths.
Bush did all this abroad while not allowing another terrorist attack at home.
well, since forecigh terrorists have done like ONE attack in over 200 years i'd say the odds are pretty good. oh, by the way, who's watch did that ONE attack come on again? and that happened on the day the nat'l security advison was going to make a big speech touting start wars missile defense as the new centerpiece of our national security instead of anti-terrorism as it was under clinton.


Worst president in history? Come on! HANDS DOWN, WORST. EVER!





The Democrats are complaining about how long the war is taking, but...
It took less time to take Iraq
than it took Janet Reno to take the Branch Davidian compound.
That was a 51 day operation. OH, YOU MEAN THE DRESS UP DAY WHEN SHRUBBIE PLAYS FIGHTER PILOT AND DECLARED COMBAT OPERATIONS OVER? I KINDA THOUGHT WE WERE STILL INVOLVED THERE. APRIL HAS BEEN THE BLOODIEST MONTH YET.







We've been looking for evidence of chemical weapons in Iraq for less time
than it took Hillary Clinton to find the Rose Law Firm billing records. AT LEAST SHE FOUND THEM AND DIDN'T LIE IN THE FIRST PLACE.

It took less time for the 3rd Infantry Division and the Marines to destroy the Medina Republican Guard
than it took Teddy Kennedy to call the police after his Oldsmobile sank at Chappaquiddick. Also less time than it took shrubbie to release his military records which are still not complete

It took less time to take Iraq


than it took to count the votes in Florida!!!! UM, ER, THEY WERE NEVER COUNTED.



Our military is GREAT! PASS IT ON. I AGREE, I LOVE THE MILITARY, IT'S JUST THE CIVILIAN POLICY MAKERS THAT SUCK, AND MANY IN THE MILITARY BELIEVE THAT AS WELL!!!!
HOW MANY TERRORIST ATTACKS CLINTON STOPPED.

Just for the record, under Richard Clarke's leadership as Czar of Counterterrorism:

CLINTON Developed the nation's first anti-terrorism policy, and appointed first national coordinator of anti-terrorist efforts.

CLINTON Stopped cold the Al Qaeda millennium hijacking and bombing plots.

CLINTON Stopped cold the planned attack to kill the Pope

CLINTON Stopped cold the planned attack to blow up 12 U.S. jetliners simultaneously

CLINTON Stopped cold the planned attack to blow up UN Headquarters

CLINTON Stopped cold the planned attack to blow up FBI Headquarters

CLINTON Stopped cold the planned attack to blow up the Israeli Embassy in Washington

CLINTON Stopped cold the planned attack to blow up Boston airport

CLINTON Stopped cold the planned attack to blow up Lincoln and Holland Tunnels in NY

CLINTON Stopped cold the planned attack to blow up the George Washington Bridge

CLINTON Stopped cold the planned attack to blow up the US Embassy in Albania

-- Tried to kill Osama bin Laden and disrupt Al Qaeda through preemptive strikes (efforts denounced by the G.O.P.).

-- Brought perpetrators of first World Trade Center bombing and CIA killings to justice.

-- Did not blame Bush I administration for first World Trade Center bombing even though it occurred 38 days after Bush left office. Instead, worked hard, even obsessively -- and successfully -- to stop future terrorist attacks.

--Named the Hart-Rudman commission to report on nature of terrorist threats and major steps to be taken to combat terrorism.

-Clinton sent legislation to Congress to TIGHTEN AIRPORT SECURITY. (Remember, this is before 911) The legislation was defeated by the Republicans because of opposition from the airlines.

-Clinton sent legislation to Congress to allow for BETTER TRACKING OF TERRORIST FUNDING. It was defeated by Republicans in the Senate because of opposition from banking interests.

-Clinton sent legislation to Congress to add tagents to explosives, to allow for BETTER TRACKING OF EXPLOSIVES USED BY TERRORISTS. It was defeated by the Republicans because of opposition from the NRA.

-Clinton increased the military budget by an average of 14 per cent, reversing the trend under Bush I.

-Clinton tripled the budget of the FBI for counterterrorism and doubled overall funding for counterterrorism

-Clinton detected and destroyed cells of Al Qaeda in over 20 countries

-Clinton created national stockpile of drugs and vaccines including 40 million doses of smallpox vaccine.

-Of Clinton's efforts says Robert Oakley, Reagan Ambassador for Counterterrorism: "Overall, I give them very high marks" and "The only major criticism I have is the obsession with Osama"

-Paul Bremer, current Civilian Administrator of Iraq disagrees slightly with Robert Oakley as he believed the Clinton Administration had "correctly focused on bin Laden.

-Barton Gellman in the Washington Post put it best, "By any measure available, Clinton left office having given greater priority to terrorism than any president before him" and was the "first administration to undertake a systematic anti-terrorist effort"

RESUME

GEORGE W. BUSH

The White House, USA

PAST WORK EXPERIENCE:

* I ran for Congress & lost.

* I produced a Hollywood slasher B movie.

* I bought an oil company, (with the assist of Saudi money) but couldn't find any oil in Texas; company
went bankrupt shortly after I sold all my stock.

* I bought the Texas Rangers baseball team in a sweetheart deal that
took & used taxpayer money. Biggest move: Traded Sammy Sosa to the Chicago
Cubs.

* With my father's help (and his name) was elected Governor of Texas.



ACCOMPLISHMENTS:

* I changed pollution laws for power & oil companies & made Texas the
most polluted state in the Union.

* I replaced Los Angeles with Houston as the most smog-ridden city in
America.

* I cut taxes & bankrupted the Texas government to the tune of billions
in borrowed money.

* I set the record for most executions by any Governor in American
history.

* I became president after losing the popular vote by over 500,000
votes, with the help of my father's appointments to the Supreme Court.



ACCOMPLISHMENTS AS PRESIDENT:

* I attacked two countries.

* I spent the surplus & bankrupted the treasury.

* I shattered the record for the biggest annual deficit in history.

* I set the economic record for the most private bankruptcies filed in
any 12-month period.

* I set the all-time record for the biggest drop in the history of the
stock market.

* I am the first president in decades to execute a federal prisoner.

* I am the first president in US history to enter office with a criminal
record.

* In my first year in office I set the all-time record for most days on
vacation by any president in US history.

* After taking the entire month of August off for vacation, I presided
over the worst security failure in US history.

* I set the record for more campaign fund-raising trips than any other
president in US history.

* In my first two years in office over 3mn Americans lost their jobs.

* I cut unemployment benefits for more out-of-work Americans than any
president in US history.

* I set the all-time record for most foreclosures in a 12-month period.

* I appointed more convicted criminals to administration positions than
any president in US history.

* I am the first president who allowed two people in his administration to "out"
an active undercover CIA agent (a felony) in order to send a message to anyone who talks.
She was working on the proliferation of WMDs. Glaria Plame, go ahead, google it.

* I set the record for the least amount of press conferences than any
president since the advent of television.

* I signed more laws & executive orders amending the Constitution than
any president in US history.

* I presided over the biggest energy crises in US history & refused to
intervene when corruption was revealed.

* I presided over the highest gasoline prices in US history & refused to
use the national reserves as past presidents have.

* I cut healthcare benefits for war veterans.

* I blocked raising combat pay and death benefits for serving military.

* I set the all-time record for most people worldwide to simultaneously
take to the streets to protest me (15mn people), shattering the record for
protests against any person in the history of mankind.

* I dissolved more international treaties than any president in US
history.

* My presidency is the most secretive & unaccountable of any in US
history.

* Members of my cabinet are the richest of any administration in US
history. (The 'poorest' multimillionaire, Condoleeza Rice has a Chevron oil
tanker named after her).

* I am the first president in US history to have all 50 states of the
Union simultaneously go bankrupt.

* I presided over the biggest corporate stock market fraud of any market
in any country in the history of the world.

* I am the first president in US history to order a US attack & military
occupation of a sovereign nation, & I did so against the will of the
United Nations & the world community.

* I created the largest government department bureaucracy in the history
of the United States.

* I set the all-time record for biggest annual budget spending
increases, more than any president in US history...

* I am the first president in US history to have the United Nations
remove the US from the human rights commission.

* I am the first president in US history to have the United Nations
remove the US from the elections monitoring board.

* I removed more checks & balances, & have the least amount of
congressional oversight than any presidential administration in US history.

* I rendered the entire United Nations irrelevant.

* I withdrew from the World Court of Law.

* I refused to allow inspectors access to US prisoners of war & by
default no longer abide by the Geneva Conventions.

* I am the first president in US history to refuse United Nations
election inspectors (during the 2002 US elections).

* I am the all-time US (and world) record holder for most corporate
campaign donations. My biggest lifetime campaign contributor, who is also one of
my best friends, presided over one of the largest corporate bankruptcy
frauds in world history (Kenneth Lay, former CEO of Enron Corporation).

* I spent more money on polls & focus groups than any president in US
history.

* I am the first president to run & hide when the US came under attack
(and then lied saying the enemy had the code to Air Force 1)

* I am the first US president to establish a secret shadow government.

* I took the biggest world sympathy for the US after 9/11, & in less
than a year made the US the most resented country in the world (possibly the
biggest diplomatic failure in US & world history).

* I, with a policy of 'disengagement' created the most hostile
Israeli-Palestine relations in at least 30 years.

* I am the first US president in history to have a majority of the
people of Europe (71%) view my presidency as the biggest threat to world peace &
stability.

* I am the first US president in history to have the people of South
Korea more threatened by the US than their immediate neighbour, North Korea.

* I changed US policy to allow convicted criminals to be awarded
government contracts.

* I set all-time record for number of administration appointees who
violated US law by not selling huge investments in corporations bidding for
government contracts.

* I failed to fulfill my pledge to get Osama Bin Laden 'dead or alive'.

* I failed to capture the anthrax killer who tried to murder the leaders
of our country at the United States Capitol building. After 18 months I
have no leads & zero suspects.

* In the 18 months following the 9/11 attacks, I have successfully
prevented any public investigation into the biggest security failure in the
history of the United States.

* I removed more freedoms & civil liberties for Americans than any other
president in US history.

* In a little over two years I created the most divided country in
decades, possibly the most divided the US has ever been since the civil war.

* I entered office with the strongest economy in US history & in less
than two years turned every single economic category heading straight down.



RECORDS & REFERENCES:

* I have at least one conviction for drunk driving in Maine (Texas
driving record has been erased & is not available).

* I was AWOL from the National Guard & deserted the military during a
time of war.

* I refused to take a drug test or even answer any questions about drug
use.

* All records of my tenure as governor of Texas have been spirited away
to my father's library, sealed in secrecy & unavailable for public view.

* All records of any SEC investigations into my insider trading or
bankrupt companies are sealed in secrecy & unavailable for public view.

* All minutes of meetings for any public corporation where I served on
the board are sealed in secrecy & unavailable for public view.

* Any records or minutes from meetings I (or my VP) attended regarding
public energy policy are sealed in secrecy & unavailable for public
review.

* For personal references please speak to my daddy or uncle James Baker
(They can be reached at their offices of the Carlyle Group- global arms
dealer)


(Personal comment,
I ask myself a question almost daily when I hear about some absurd revisionist explanation. Why does everything they do has to work backwards like Seinfeld in Bizarro World:

We have to cut down the forests to save them.
We have to bomb the Iraqis to protect them.
We have to restrict American freedom so we can protect liberty.
We have to protect the overseas outsourcing of jobs to create new jobs.
We have to save money on the war by privatizing and providing a profit.
I can't even lucidly convey the concept of how there were no Al Queda terrorists in Iraq until well after the US occupation of Iraq.

My head is spinning.)

[cestmoi]

9. Jesus healed people for free so have the right justify HMO's

Universal health care was championed in Canada by Tommy Douglas a devont Methodist minister (also grandfather of Kieffer Sutherland)
who later in life became a Canadian Prime Minister.

Repubs want to cast universal health care as socialistm but Tommy Douglas fought for it as a devout Christian though he also embraced socialism.

Therefore raise the argument that Christians should question the lack of universal health care. The bottom line is that 90% of time in the bible Jesus healed people pro bono. Anyone who proports to be Christian should advocate universal health care.