Ronald Reagan, Afghanistan, and the World Trade Center

[Boojatta]

The IRS took money from US taxpayers and Ronald Reagan used some of that money to give weapons to various groups of people in Afghanistan.

How much money was involved? Did American taxpayers soon benefit from that investment? If there wasn't any short-term benefit for US taxpayers, was there at least a long-term benefit? Do Republicans consider the events of September 11th, 2001 to have been beneficial?

Was it a good idea to give weapons to anybody and everybody who was fighting the USSR?

If some people are involved in a military conflict with a communist state, then are the magic words "we think God exists" a good enough reason for money to be taken from US taxpayers and used to give them weapons?

Maybe Conservatives think that if some people say that "God exists" and those people have some American hostages, then that is good enough reason to sell weapons to those people? (See Iran-Contra)

[Crazy Dave]

1. There wouldn't even be a Taliban....

...if not for the Reagan administration and Saddam wouldn't have had any WMD's if not for Reagan. All of the remaining evidence of chemical weapons were from the ones we supplied him with for their war against Iran.

[htuttle]

2. It wasn't JUST the giving them money that was a problem

Aid to the Afghani rebels started under Carter's term. They gave them just enough money to keep their war going (and no SAMs), yet not enough to actually win decisively. Brzezinski's idea was to create a quagmire for the Soviets, not a theocracy for the Afghans.

When Reagan came into office, he increased the amount of money more than tenfold, and gave them Stinger missiles and other advanced weaponry. Reagan apparently wanted to ensure that the fundamentalist Mujahadeen would actually win. IIRC, former Pakistani PM Bhutto was quite alarmed by Reagan's sudden aid increases to the fundamentalists (for good reason) and was quoted as saying, "They are creating a Frankenstein in Afghanistan."

Sure enough, just like in the movies, Frankenstein's monster eventually came after it's creator.

[pretzel4gore]

3. there was a bbc documentary years ago, before 911

where commanders of the mujahadeen were asked about the russians: one guy said it in plain language translated to english. he said that the 'war' was to "return the afghan people to religious control, and put woman back in their place."...under the russians, women drove cars and girls attended school and listened to music on radios etc,, not to mention the clothing!....it was tragic to listen to that, and the usa/west should be deeply ashamed of itself...

[frankly_fedup2]

4. Iran has been a Theocracy now for almost 25 years. They had an

election; however, the religious leaders still run the country. The people of the country have about had enough.

If we hadn't made them an enemy when we helped Iraq, maybe they would be willing for us to help them overthrow their government.

However, they will never ask this administration to help them.

A revolution is coming in Iran because the people are tired of the strict restrictions on them, especially the women. Can you imagine the American People starting a revolution to get these idiots out before they totally destroy the Constitution?

If we don't do something, the fascism by this government will continue and we will no longer have a Constitution.

Just for a reminder or for you to printout, a reminder of what is a fascist government.

The 14 characteristics are:

Powerful and Continuing Nationalism
Fascist regimes tend to make constant use of patriotic mottos, slogans, symbols, songs, and other paraphernalia. Flags are seen everywhere, as are flag symbols on clothing and in public displays.


Disdain for the Recognition of Human Rights
Because of fear of enemies and the need for security, the people in fascist regimes are persuaded that human rights can be ignored in certain cases because of "need." The people tend to look the other way or even approve of torture, summary executions, assassinations, long incarcerations of prisoners, etc.

Identification of Enemies/Scapegoats as a Unifying Cause
The people are rallied into a unifying patriotic frenzy over the need to eliminate a perceived common threat or foe: racial , ethnic or religious minorities; liberals; communists; socialists, terrorists, etc.

I got this off a blog who had reposted it since the news of the illegal wire tapping news. Here is the URL:

http://eaprezdetails.blogspot.com/2005/12/characteristics-of-facisim.html

You might want to print it out and keep it up as a reminder as well as read it often. That is if you like to be scared to death.

[Jason Lapointe]

5. Was it a good idea

Was it a good idea to give weapons to anybody and everybody who was fighting the USSR?

Time has already answeared that one

[Boojatta]

6. Time has already answered that one

Yes. Unfortunately, the answer comes from a specific situation. However, when people ask what credentials are enough to make someone a friend, they might not remember that specific situation. An enemy of an enemy: is that enough to make someone a friend?

[ChiknOfTheC]

7. Somewhat unrelated Reagan question, from a newbie

Hey, newbie member here (please be gentle). I don't have enough replies to start a new thread, but I have a question about Ronald Reagan I'd like answered, and since this thread mentions Reagan, I'll go ahead and ask it in this thread (hope that's okay, mods).

A friend at work made the statement, "The only presidents who are known to have not cheated on their wives while president are Roosevelt and Carter." I think it was Teddy, not FDR. Anyway, he went on to say that Ronald Reagan was known to have had an affair. That was news to me. I tried to Google the topic and couldn't come up with anything. Does anybody have any info on whether or not this is true? Thanks in advance.