More American Jobs go Bye-Bye!

[XanaDUer]

Jobs Go Global


Tech jobs are moving overseas at an alarming rate. Other fields may soon follow. Why is it happening? ...

Looking for a high-paying tech job? Good luck. Offshore outsourcing—the exporting of jobs that were once done in-house—has been on the increase, to the point where a report by Gartner Inc., an information technology research firm, calls the movement of tech-related jobs an “irreversible megatrend.”


More here:


http://www.msnbc.com/news/947478.asp

[XanaDUer]

1. The article discusses how many Americans

in these fields (IT and engineering) were resistant to unions, and did not want any government "interference" at all.

Be careful , you may get what you wish for.

[Porkrind_Power]

7. yeah, "best & brightest" my ass

from personal experience-
engineers are the biggest chumps in the world

[Maple]

2. Yes, it's called 'competition'

Something Americans supposedly approve of.

[XanaDUer]

3. Right. It's "competition"

until they are screwed by it.

[papau]

4. IBM reduces VT. chip plant, Intel kills Mass Plant - opens in China

Not that you can hide earnings from US Federal taxation by going overseas - but you can!

So the Bush tax code lack of enforcement makes it a no-brainer to drain jobs out of the US.

The Bush recession - and the Bush job loss program.

[XanaDUer]

5. I think if they want to move their jobs

then they should lose all tax rightoffs on monies spent outside the U.S.

Bastards.

[phgnome]

16. Good idea

n/t

[Virginian]

22. We don't keep our skills updated?

I found this on MeetUp.com
"Discussion Pt: July 30 Press Conference: Bush said that Americans are being replaced by foreigners because we don't keep our skills updated! (anonymous) "

I worked with Oracle products, so I am using Oracle as an example. Tens of thousands of dollars were spent on my Oracle training in the late 1990s. Oracle has come out with significant releases since then. Oracle charges $500.00 per day of class in the US, but in India, Oracle charges only $50.00 for the same, exact class. They are free to charge what the market will bear, but it seems as though the U.S. could create some tax advantages or tarrif programs to help the U.S. tech sector compete with that of a third world nation.

The H-1B system was supposed to charge a fee which would be put into training American workers so that we wouldn't need to import skills from other countries. I don't know where that money goes, I have not seen any method through which I can take advantage of this.
I recommend a tarrif on foreign workers. Companies importing skilled tech workers be charged the difference between that worker's cost for education and the cost for the same education in the U.S. (This might inspire them to help upgrade the skills of their existing workers.)
These monies would be put into a subsidy program to assist unemployed American workers to update their existing skills.
No, not provide a complete education, just to update existing skills.

A similar system could be developed for offshore workers. A programmer in India gets paid only $5K for a job that would pay $30K - $70K in the U.S. Should skilled American tech workers get paid less? How much less? Do you know anyone in the U.S. who could live on $5,000 a year?

Oh, and security? Do you know who has computer access to your "private" banking information? Your account numbers? Your social security number? Your credit cards? Certainly not anyone you know and trust in your local branch. It is a subcontractor of a contractor your bank has hired so that the CEOs and CIOs and CFOs can enjoy their yachts and vacation homes that you will never be invited to.

[teryang]

6. They get to sell their products here

But they are manufactured overseas dirt cheap by exploited labor. Then they ship the product from China or Malaysia or wherever to an offshore haven for a faux purchase and sale arrangement before shipment to the US, so 99 percent of the actual profit is booked in the foreign tax haven.

[ramapo]

8. Not only our jobs

Heard on NPR this morning a report from Mexico. Jobs there are also being exported to Asia. So while Mexican manufacturing was less expensive than the US, Asia is even cheaper with a large and educated (esp. in tech) workforce.


I'm reading "Race to the Bottom" which describes how globalization has hurt us (with the worst to come). Basically there's a lot of cheap labor worldwide, much of it very well educated. We all expected that these emerging economies would generate their own jobs with subsequent rise in living standards. Instead our living standards may well diminish as that great sucking sound you hear gets louder and louder from the jobs rushing offshore.

This situation has been developing over the past 20-30 years. I do not think it can be easily stopped.

[alarimer]

9. Also

Customer service jobs are moving to places like India. They are training Indian workers to speak like Americans and then give them American-sounding names to use on the phone. This is to fool the public that customer service is in the USA and to mask the fact they are sending jobs overseas. I saw this on NOW tonight. I was incensed! I think companies that move ovrseas need to have their corporate charters revoked. It is disgusting to me; they definitely need to be punished. or maybe the whole world just needs to be unionized.

[srpantalonas]

10. Senate Candidate Crystle leads Fight Against Job Loss & Huge Corporations

...and I am said candidate and a former software company founder. My company is now owned by Sun, who just outsourced my software to India. They also just added 300 new jobs. In China. But that's not the real problem.

China engages in unfair and illegal trade practices--currency manipulation, illegal subsidies--you name it. They are masters at predatory pricing. On Thursday I toured a Pfaltzgraf plant in York, PA. It's the model of efficiency, yet they've laid off a ton of people and shuttered a plant. Why? Get this: if they sent ALL of their workers home and the plant just somehow ran itself, China's equivalent products, defying any and all economic laws, would STILL be priced 30% cheaper! Something is clearly going on. York barbell's US costs for raw materials is $.08 a pound. Shipping is $.12 a pound. China ships the same product--painted and finished--for $.18 a pound. They have violated every substantive part of their trade agreements and are engaged in an economic war with the US, and NOBODY is doing anything about it. Our trade deficit with them is on target for $130 billion this year; that's equal to our ENTIRE 1997 trade deficit. For those who don't get the deficit game, that's $130 billion of jobs in China that could be here. It used to be that we could gain an edge because we dveloped new technologies, innovations, etc, and had better quality, so there was always some non-patriotic reason to buy American. That's over. Large US corporations ship new technology and innovations over there to their brand-new plants, while letting their US plants go unimproved, eventually shutting them down. Our total trade deficit will be $550 billion this year. That's like an en entire auto industry, plus another 20%.

Who benefits from this? Only the huge corporations chasing the cheapest price. It's killing small and mid-sized manufacturers and eviscerating my state and our country. We MUST stop this insanity before it's too late. Regular people, small and mid-sized businesses don't have a seat at the table. I'm running to fight for economic and social justice, and I appreciate your help. Myopponent is a self-described "Free Trader". Free Trade is killing America and we need to develop some backbone and stand up to unfair trade practices, level the playing field, and save our communities.

I'm releasing my Big Stick trade proposal today at http://www.charliecrystle.com

Thanks for listening.

[kalian]

11. Yes, I have heard about this.

...corporations will do anything to screw the consumer.

[ikojo]

23. Outsourcing of jobs to India has been in the tech press for awhile

I remember calling some customer service department and asking the person where they were located. The CS rep was not allowed to tell me. Hey if outsourcing relatively good paying jobs to India is such a good, moral and ethical thing then why prohibit the CS rep from proudly proclaiming his/her origin?

[madmax]

12. 'Outsourcing' American jobs

Where is the OUTRAGE!! :wtf: will happen to America's middle class white collar jobs. Where are my grandchildren going to work? In McD's flipping burgers? Or should we all just move to Bombay?

Foreign Service: Overview

"The numbers are startling: 3.3 million jobs in less than 15 years. That's the number of U.S. jobs expected to be lost overseas by 2015 according to a recent report by Forrester Research. But the sheer size of the exodus isn't what's worrying analysts the most — it's the type of jobs. Some critics are worried that this time it's the corporate main office is getting ready to shut down and head out of the country, packing up cubicles and all. As reported on NOW, a new wave of jobs are leaving U.S. shores: software development, customer service, accounting, back-office support, product development and other white collar endeavors.

In late 2002, computer giant Oracle announced that it would double its workforce in India. Texas Instruments already employs over 1,000 engineers at a Bangalore campus, and has made plans for a much bigger presence in the near future. In November of 2002, Microsoft Chairman Bill Gates announced that the company will be making investments of approximately $400 million in India.

And, It's not just technology jobs that have ended up in India. Charles Schwab recently moved part of its information technology division to a contractor in Bangalore, India. AOL already has a large presence in India. American Express and British Airways have ramped up their employment in the country during the past year as well.

FRONTLINE WORLD reported last year that over half of Fortune 500 companies have moved jobs offshore, including famous names from many fields: Oracle, Dell, HSBC, Delta Air Lines, Novartis, J.P. Morgan Chase, Hewlett-Packard, American Express, British Airways. More are expected to follow."

more: http://www.pbs.org/now/politics/jobflight.html

[JPace]

13. I watched Bill Moyers "Now"

yesterday and was astounded by his piece
on job losses.

When people fear not being able to make
a living they are not able to think of
much else. I believe the time has come for
unions to come back in style. I don't
see how anything else is going to give
some political power back to the American
worker.

[srpantalonas]

14. Union Yes, Bush No

I just got back from Pittsburgh for the Labor Day parade--unions definitely are important and should gain strength now. I encourage you to seek them out, organize, stand up. We can't fight the power unless we do it together.

[mhr]

15. See My Letter To The Editor

Here,

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=114&topic_id=1141

[srpantalonas]

17. if there's anything I can do to help let me know.

This is what I'm fighting for--economic and social justice. But I need help.

[dArKeR]

18. Some lost jobs may never return - MSGOP

http://msnbc.com/news/960489.asp?0cv=CB20

[ramapo]

19. How about most?

When was the last new electronic assembly plant opened in the US? Radios, TVs, etc. are all made overseas. These jobs aren't returning. Don;t think that the programming and other IT jobs are coming back either.

[Boreas]

20. I fear they're gone for good and here's why

unions can't do much about it, nor can any worker. Labor is the easiest part of the manufacturing equation to manipulate, and it is being done, as we are now seeing. Who is going to stop it? No one. The super rich will retain most of their wealth and the standard of living for most working Americans is in a permanent downward spiral. Why? For the same reason Americans in general and business in particular will use; because they can. Read Jay Bookman's column from the Atlanta Journal Constitution of Sept 1, 2003 titled "Competition Shoves US off Easy Street." Here are a few lines:

<snip>
A fundamental change is under way in the nation's economy, a change in which the old rules and expectations no longer apply. In time, that change will force cultural and political adjustments of a magnitude that are difficult to imagine and will be painful to implement. <snip>

<snip>
By traditional measures, the most recent recession ended in November 2001, almost two years ago. Yet since then, the U.S. economy has continued to shed more than a million jobs, leaving economists scratching their heads. Things like that just aren't supposed to happen. <snip>

<snip>
While there can be no single explanation for such complex trends, globalization is undoubtedly part of it. Among its many effects -- some positive and others negative -- is the movement of jobs out of the United States to nations where prevailing wages are much lower.
<snip>
<snip>
As much as many Americans might want to halt that process, success is unlikely. A typical factory worker in Mexico might make $13 a day; in China it might be $4 to $6 a day. An American manufacturing worker might make five or six times that much in an hour, not a day. The legal and regulatory barriers needed to keep companies from responding to an economic signal that strong would have to be so punitive as to wreck the economy in order to save it. <snip>

Chinese are making more money in China now and the hordes of immigrants once tossed up on these shores are staying in China where they can have a decent life because of the work that is coming into the country. Go to a hardware store and pick up a tool. Now pick up another one. Made in China. The American leaders better tell the workers what's really happening, and figure out what to do. Soon.

http://www.nytimes.com/2003/09/07/international/07IMMI.html?hp

[ArkansasAngie]

21. Lets do this instead

"Imagine the possibilities if instead of spending $4 billion a month on having soldiers in Iraq we spent that instead on renewable energy sources. Think of the possibilities that would exist if we had a president stand up in a prime time Sunday night speech asking for $70 billion for hydrogen fusion research and development."

http://www.politicalposts.com/news/index.asp?id=187036