Toyota says hybrid cars can be inexpensive to make.

[Brucey]

http://story.news.yahoo.com/fc?cid=34&tmpl=fc&in=Business&cat=Automobiles_and_Driving

Remember when we started "Earth Day" and we thought we would change/save the world/environment? It's been discouraging for a long time, but now, what about hybrid cars? I'm no expert in this area and would like to hear opinions from some informed DUers about this prospect. Hydrogen cells seem a long way off. Could hybrid be the way to go?

[TreasonousBastard]

1. Possibly.

There's a basic business problem here, besides economies of scale that selling more would bring.

Say that everyone figures it would take 10 years to recoup the cost of developing decent hybrids. But, everyone also knows that eventually fuel cells will take over.

So, what if a new development in fuel cell technology pops up in five years, and they have to start working on that and abandoning the hybrid investment?

That's oversimplifying the problem, but the bean counters do worry about such things. As it is, hybrids have the potential for replacing most of the stuff we have on the road today, but that also means abandoning most of the drivetrain investment we have now.

Besides, hybrids still have one terrible problem-- the expensive batteries have to be replaced every few years, and battery technology hasn't improved that much. There are two key things in batteries that I know of-- energy density and charging cycles. Battery makers are working on getting more power per pound in them, and increasing the number of times they can be charged, but they haven't seen any more breakthroughs than the fuel cell people.

[Brucey]

2. Good points.

Thanks for the info.

[Loyal]

3. I would love fuel cell cars

n/t

[cprise]

5. Batteries necessary for hydrogen vehicles

What are you going to run your car on while the fuel cell warms up? They don't run at room temperature.

Or are you planning to plug the car into an outlet for 10 min before you're able to move?

[uberotto]

4. I just bought a 2004 Honda Civic Hybrid...

it is my first hybrid, and I love it. It looks and drives just like a regular car. I traded in my 1999 Camaro, so I was worried about the acceleration of the hybrid, but after test driving the car, I found the acceleration comparable to other 4-Cylinder cars. The Civic Hybrid costs about $3000 more than a comparably equiped non-hybrid Civic. Gas milage is about 40% better than a non-hybrid Civic, so I will probably never save as much on gas as I spent on the Hybrid option, but if money was my only concern, I would have bought a Hyundai. I think I saw estimates of $200 yearly savings on fuel costs for Hybrid Civic vs. Non Hybrid Civic.

As for the technology, it really isn't all that complicated. The car's primary propultion system is a small four cylindar gas engine. The electric motor is only there to provide torque at low RPMs. This helps the car accelerate faster, and assits the engine when going up a hill. The electric motor sits between the gas motor and the drive shaft. It is powered by a bank of NiMH batteries (the same type batteries you find in a laptop). When the car decelerates the electric engine runs in reverse, both helping slow the car and takes energy from the engine and feeds it to the battery pack, to charge the batteries ( I believe this is correct ). The batteries also are charged by breaking, again transferring kenetic energy to electric energy which is stored in the battery pack, so no need to ever plug the car in.

The batteries should last at least 10 years. They are under warranty for eight. The replacement of the batteries is estimated to be around $2000. If the technology becomes more popular, this price will go down. If the technology doesn't catch on, the price will go up.

The Toyota Prius technology is similar to this but there are some differences in when the gas and electric engines are used.

There really isn't any reason the Hybrid car would cost much more than a regular car, once the production levels increase. There are few modifications that need to be made to the car to accomodate the Gas-Electric Hybrid engine. There is nothing all that complicated about the technology, as a matter of fact the patent for the Gas-Electric hybrid engine was awarded in 1905. So the technology really has been around for a while.

As for the Hydrogen powered cars, the first production model is at least five years away, and it will be another 10 years after that before the technology makes it into a "mainstream" model. There is the problem with a lack of hydrogen re-fuel infrastructure. It will take time for gas stations to start offering hydrogen in any significant numbers. Also, there is no reason that the technology used in Gas-Electric hybrid cars couldn't be used in Hydrogen cars, so I don't see the technology as being "just a stop-gap technology".