My feeling on why China doesn't kick the door in on our "free lunches."

[NNadir]

If you're curious about who's funding the US Government, a division of Halliburton, it's the Chinese.

Of course, the Chinese don't love America, and so one kind of wonders why they don't simply destroy the United States by cutting off our credit card and rendering us instantaneously bankrupt.

After all, they want Taiwan, they want oil, etc. etc.

Probably this is a simplistic analysis, but it occurs to me that after our latest "free lunch," the funding for Halliburton to engage in profiteering in Louisiana, the Chinese are waiting.

If they let us hang on until after the 2006 election - in hopes that the Repukes will win again - the United States will be completely eliminated as a potential threat, having been completely destroyed from within.

I think either way, the credit card gets cancelled in 2007.

[henslee]

1. They need us to buy all their maufactured crap. I will find a good link..

East Asia and the World: The Decades Ahead
by Immanuel Wallerstein

http://fbc.binghamton.edu/157en.htm

Check out his other essays, some on on Geopolitics ,they are listed by year. I liked another one on China, India and the U.S.

[daninthemoon]

2. I think it is a matter of high stakes poker. The only guy who knows

what the Chinese are bettin on are the Chinese. They don't have any tells.

[OldLeftieLawyer]

3. We live in China part of the year

There's so much development and manufacturing going on, I hardly recognize it as the country I first saw all those years ago.

The US is in China's pocket politically, because the Chinese own us financially.

Now, who in their right mind would rock THAT boat?

They're laughing at us like you can't imagine.

[NewJeffCT]

7. where in china do you live?

my relatives are in Nanjing & Shanghai (primarily)... I'd love to be able to find a job there and move over.

[OldLeftieLawyer]

9. We have an apartment in Hong Kong,

but we move around a lot. Shanghai is one of our stops. My husband does a lot of work in the interior, so we're out in the provinces much of the time.

Talk to your relatives. Shanghai's a damn boom town, becoming what Hong Kong used to be. There's got to be something for you there.

Good luck.

[NewJeffCT]

10. after the election

I was so depressed that I asked my wife to look into the price of a villa outside of Shanghai... but, I don't think she took me seriously.

heck, if my wife & I could get jobs there at our current salaries, we'd live like kings (almost) for at least the next few years. We could send our daughter to a top private school, and if she wanted to play piano or learn kung-fu, the cost would be a fraction of it here.

[daninthemoon]

4. Somethin I've been wondering lately: Was Nixon's China visit

about thawing cold war relations and gaining an ally against the Soviets, or was it the start of this buyout that seems to help our rich investorslots more than our working class?

[Raster]

5. if you owe a bank $20,000 and can't pay, you have a problem.

If you owe the bank $20,000,000 and can't pay, the bank has a problem.

[NewJeffCT]

6. they will not do anything before the 2008 Olympics

a major worldwide recession or a confrontation over Taiwan may either put a damper on the '08 Olympics in Beijing, or lead to major boycotts... neither of which the Chinese want.

And, let's not forget that right now, China needs us here in the US buying all those Chinese-made goods at Wal-Mart more than we need them at this time. The Chinese also have major fiscal problems, high unemployment and a banking situation reminiscent of the US in the 1920s...

In 5 or 10 years, it will be the other way around - but, I'm pretty sure we are not there yet. If China pulled the plug right now and a major trade war ensued, those US corporations would just move their operations to India, Mexico and Brazil...

[The Backlash Cometh]

8. China is our economic hitman.

I hope Cheney, Halliburton and Carlisle realize that enough Americans know about their scams, that it will be impossible to take the goods and leave us holding the bag.

Imagine the criticism that Clinton received regarding financial campaign transactions with the Chinese, and here the Bush Administration and their cronies are doing the polka with China and not a peep from the freeps.

[cliss]

11. Well, I believe that Love Affiair is suffering from some

tension lately. China needs one thing to fuel it's amazing growth: oil. It doesn't have enough. It needs more to continue growing.

Problem: the U.S. burns through 20 million barrels of oil per day (no, not gallons => barrels). We're kinda the big fat pig at the feeding trough. China is getting pushed out.

There's no question China is THE emerging power of the 21st century, regardless of what those deluded dreamers at the PNAC thought. Forget them.

Also, while China is doing the Polka with the U.S., I see a leg sticking straight out.....oops

[The Backlash Cometh]

13. Imagine what a little competition did for the Space Age.

Why can't we have the same kind of competition looking for a clean energy alternative?

[dcfirefighter]

12. China needs buyers, for now

When they have bought and built all the capital they need, they'll stop buying our paper.

First flow: US Dollars go to china to pay for cheap goods.
Second flow: US Dollars exchanged for Yuan to pay for labor & employment.
Third flow: US Dollars go back to US to buy US Treasury securities, to keep Yuan cheap v. USD
Fourth flow: US Dollars go back to China to pay interest on Treasuries

We wind up giving them our currency, with which they buy our debt; we get chinese products. In the end, they get production capacity, public infrastructure, and a steady income stream from the US taxpayer (who is liable for US debts).

The monkey of it all is that we use debt-based money (as does just about everyone else). The USD is fractionally based on deposits of US Treasury securities.

At some point we'll be in the position that the United States owes china (and others) $3-400 Billion a year in debt payments. In order to convince anyone to buy a Treasury security, it will have to offer a ridiculously high return. Interest rates will skyrocket, and the money supply will contract. Deflation is a bigger bitch than inflation. We'll have to choose between pumping the economy with inflated dollars or suffer the consequences of deflation.

Or, we could end the reign of the Federal Reserve Bank and Fractional Reserve Banking. Right now, we have ~$5 Trillion of EXTERNAL debt, and another $3T of intergovernmental debt. Ignore the intergovernmental debt - it's merely an accounting trick. It'll have to be paid, but it's not the problem that the internald debt is. At the same time, we have more than $8.5 Trillion in deposit-created money.

End the ability of banks to create money, and replace their created money with freshly printed non-interest bearing government liability notes, greenbacks. Take with one hand and give with the other, such that the overall money supply remains constant (or at least constant in relation to economic growth).

With this new money, offer to buy back the debt notes. If they refuse, deposit the new money in the treasury, and make payments on the debt with that. Don't issue any more US interest bearing debt.

As long as the supply of greenbacks is limited by convention, the price of money should remain constant - neither inflationary nor deflationary. The greenbacks themselves would have worth, in that they'd be accepted by the US Government as payment for taxes.

[indepat]

14. We will not be destroyed within unless the enemy lurks within

[raccoon]

31. but it does! nt

[Poppyseedman]

15. "Probably this is a simplistic analysis"

That part you got right.

What's the fixation with Halliburton? Compared to international finance games that are being played with the international bankers, Halliburton isn't even on the map. It's child's play for the pretend wealthy

What you don't understand is the Chinese don't want to instantaneously bankrupt us, who else is going to buy their production???

The Chinese need us as much as we need to borrow their money.

Believe me they don't look at the world in terms of BFEE, lets take him down and America goes with it.

The Chinese look at American twenty years from now and form their political strategies on the long term trends.

[Robert Oak]

16. global "lurch"

If the US economy suddenly crashes and burned, the lurch will create a global depression the likes of which have never been imagined.

In order to bring the US down through economic war and not burn your country in the process, it has to be gradual so the economic forces can adjust.

Interesting post, no kiddlie.

[happyslug]

17. My take on China, Europe, Japan and the USA are like four drunks.

The following is simplified for more details look through the net and you will find all four countries are in deep trouble and know how to get out of the trouble but none of them want to do it first given the political costs of such reforms.

Like all drunks, China, Europe, Japan and the USA have problems standing up, so each hold on to the other. Europe has a persistent high unemployment rate. It has high welfare costs compared to the US, China and Japan (Through of the four major trading partners it is in the best position). Europe does NOT want the Euro to go up compared to the Dollar, the Yen and the Yuan, for it will increase unemployment by increasing the costs of what Europe Exports and decreasing the costs of its imports. Thus Europe is trying to keep the Dollar up so its exports do NOT become so excessive that exports stop.

The problems of the US are well know, no savings, high debt rates, excessive deficients, excessive military spending, etc. Sooner or later something has to break and when it does the US will no longer be able to buy things from abroad AND THIS IS THE BIG FEAR OF NOT ONLY OF THE USA BUT EUROPE, JAPAN, and CHINA.

China's problems are also huge, while its coast line is booming its interior is hurting. Peasants are protesting as their cost of living declines. Coal miners are dieing as the demand for coal increases but pay and safety concerns are NOT addressed. China's State Businesses are closing down forcing many people in unemployment lines (and China has NO unemployment insurance). China's biggest fear is that the West will stop buying its products causing the Industrial Coast to join the depressed middle of the Country (Along with the depressed Government Owned Businesses). This is how the Communist overthrew the Nationalist in the 1940s and you may see a repeat. Thus China must do everything it can to keep the economic miracle going even if that means buying so many worthless Dollars just to keep the US buying Chinese products. China appears to be investing those Dollars in Oil Futures which should give the US a scare but Bush and the Neo-cons believe the US Military power trumps Chinese Economic power (A gamble I would NOT take but Bush and the Neo-cons are in charge).

Japan has the same problems as China except no hostile interior but it has a very inefficient government structure that is dependent on trade high end goods to the US, Europe and China (Plus how Japans does its election, the rural areas of Japan has more power than the Urban thus no Rural Interior problem like China). The government Survives by making sure wealth from the Cities filter back to the rural area. The problem is what will happens if trade stops AND such wealth ends? Thu Japan like China must keep buying US Dollars to prevent the loss of trade and thus the loss of internal cohesion. Furthermore the Japanese Banks have been bankrupt for over ten years but the Government does not want to address that problem. The bankruptcy of the banks would also stop exports and Japan can not afford that so the banks survive but sooner or later this front has to give way, which may be one way for world trade to collapse.

Thus the dilemma in world wide trade. Four drunks and no plan to get sober. Sooner or later one of them will reach a crisis that the country falls down cold drunk. The other three can not lift the cold drunk without some help from the fallen drunk causing the other three to fall. You will than have a pile of four drunks who will wake up to one of the worse hangovers each of them have ever had.

[idlisambar]

18. Japan is not drunk

and neither are China and Europe for that matter. The only real drunk is the U.S.

Focusing on Japan, you say....

it has a very inefficient government structure that is dependent on trade high end goods to the US, Europe and China

First, can you say why you think Japan has an "inefficient" government. Depends on what you mean by efficient I suppose, but I would say the Japanese government is generally more efficient than the US government. For example, one of the government's central objectives is to maintain law and order, and Japan does so with far fewer policemen, lawyers, prisons, etc. than the U.S. Another objective is defense and here again Japan's large military is still much leaner than in the U.S. Still another example is education, where fewer teachers and far fewer administrators per child are required to produce generally superior results.

Second on the Japan's dependency on "high end trade", this is not quite accurate as it implies that Japan's exports are luxury consumer goods that the US could easily do without but this is not generally the case. One of the pillars of Japan's trading strategy is to gain technological superiority in the production of components (for cell phones, auto parts, etc.) and capital goods (machine tools, robots, etc.). There are many such product categories that are effectively monopolized by Japanese firms, and if the yen goes up these firms can basically name their price. This is not to say that exports of some goods will not suffer, but Japan's trade position is generally very robust.

Of the four countries/regions you mentioned Japan is very well-positioned, though I could make a case for certain European countries as well, especially Norway which stands to hold strong based both on its technological prowess and status as an oil exporter.

[nick303]

19. Let's not go shooting our mouth off here..

Just to state my qualifications, I did my thesis on the Japanese economic implosion in the 1990's.

Japan's government does things that make your head spin, and it's largely caused by things infused into Japanese culture. As an example, consider just recently, an entire re-election was held just to enable the same conservative party that has dominated Japanese politics for the last 50 years.

There are also many stories about the BOJ and MoF bureaucrats..

[idlisambar]

20. if you dispute any of the specific points I made let me know

I didn't claim that Japanese politics was straightforward, my claim was that the Japanese government, in comparison to the US government, is an efficient provider of services namely law-and-order, defense, education, and I might have added health care as well.

[nick303]

21. I'll clarify

My response is in bold below.

For example, one of the government's central objectives is to maintain law and order, and Japan does so with far fewer policemen, lawyers, prisons, etc. than the U.S. Another objective is defense and here again Japan's large military is still much leaner than in the U.S. Still another example is education, where fewer teachers and far fewer administrators per child are required to produce generally superior results.

Some of what you say may be true, but I think you'd have a hard time demonstrating that government policies lead to the results you mention. In addition, there are many examples that run counter to the idea that the govt is efficient. The poster above mentioned "inefficient governmental structures". Many graduates of Japan's top universities choose to take a job with the government rather than the private sector. They do not get paid more, and they certainly work as much if not more than their private sector counterparts. What incentive do they have for doing this? The answer is that they seek power. While outwardly they claim to serve the public first, in reality they focus on playing politics and expanding their influence within their respective bureaucracies. This has been documented all over the place, and is largely believed to have been the reason for the failure of the Japanese economy in the 1990's. Take a look at the first few pages of the book "Unmaking the Miracle: Japanese Macroeconomic Policy 1985-2000" for a more in-depth description.

More recently, the government has finally woken up and taken notice that there are many things that they do not well, and they have begun to look at privatization. The post office is the big one lately, but another example is the national railroad system. (It does run quickly and is certainly more punctual than Amtrak, but it's costs are bloated).



Second on the Japan's dependency on "high end trade", this is not quite accurate as it implies that Japan's exports are luxury consumer goods that the US could easily do without but this is not generally the case. One of the pillars of Japan's trading strategy is to gain technological superiority in the production of components (for cell phones, auto parts, etc.) and capital goods (machine tools, robots, etc.). There are many such product categories that are effectively monopolized by Japanese firms, and if the yen goes up these firms can basically name their price. This is not to say that exports of some goods will not suffer, but Japan's trade position is generally very robust.

The firms you speak of do exist, but the sectors Japan leads in only account for about 10% of GNP, and the vast majority of Japan's trading is with two of the so-called drunks, America and China. The domestic economy on the other hand is a mess, with the blame going to poor policy, which some would argue stems from Japanese culture itself. I will refrain from going into further detail since this was about foreign trade.

[idlisambar]

24. ....

Some of what you say may be true, but I think you'd have a hard time demonstrating that government policies lead to the results you mention.

Perhaps this is true, but it is also hard to claim that the Japanese government is inefficient compared to the U.S. government when Japanese society so often achieves better results with less expenditure of government resources. Whether credit goes to the government or culture or whatever is basically impossible to tease out in any meaningful way, since they are all interrelated. For example, the Japanese government takes an active role in reinforcing cultural norms through the education system.

In addition, there are many examples that run counter to the idea that the govt is efficient. The poster above mentioned "inefficient governmental structures". Many graduates of Japan's top universities choose to take a job with the government rather than the private sector. They do not get paid more, and they certainly work as much if not more than their private sector counterparts. What incentive do they have for doing this? The answer is that they seek power.

Yes, but so what. Acquisition of power is just as legitimate an incentive as acquisition of wealth, what in particular makes this arrangement particularly "inefficient"? Can you name a country that is run by officials who don't care about power?

[nick303]

25. nt

Yes, but so what. Acquisition of power is just as legitimate an incentive as acquisition of wealth, what in particular makes this arrangement particularly "inefficient"? Can you name a country that is run by officials who don't care about power?

This was mentioned for the sake of completeness, to emphasize that the best and brightest will be as, if not more, likely to seek a job in the public sector in Japan rather than the private, and that the jobs there require hard work yet still result in the same inefficient results.

Working for the government in the US, by and large, is not where the best and brightest aim to go. There's little concern for how hard someone works or how frugally money is spent, since there's always more money from the taxpayers coming in. You can't get fired unless you're really trying to. (Yes, I have seen this activity up close).

You'll also recall that last year's Presidential election involved two C students known for their lack of achievement.

[happyslug]

22. Efficient provider of such services?

First the Japanese people have had one of the lowest rates of Crimes in the world for Centuries. You have to go back to the Shogun period crime rates to find Japanese Crime rates that approach today's crime level in America. Now Japan's Crime rate was much higher back them but so was the crime rate in Europe of the same time period. Basically the further back in history you go the less relevant is the crime rate of the time period to today's society thus we only need to look at the crime rate since the 1860s and Japan's through out that whole time period has been one of the lowest in the world. Thus today's Government of Japan can claim little of the Credit for "Law and Order" in Japan since the "Law and Order" is cultural NOT governmental. This low crime rate is a plus point for Japan but the US had one of the best export periods when it crime rate was going UP (Late 1800s till about 1970) thus crime and economic expansion have little to do with each other except if the Crime rate is so high that all economic activity stops. That has NOT been true in any Western Country for over 200 years so the crime rate is NOT generally relevant when it comes to the Economy.

An example of this lack of connection can be seen in the fall of US Exports since about 1970 AND the fall of US crime since about 1970. There is NO Connection between US Crime rate and the US Economy since 1970, if there was the US Exports should have BOOMED as the Crime rate fell (or the Crime rate should have expanded as Exports fell). Thus there is NO connection between "Law and Order" and a successful economy (Unless we are taking about inside trading and other corporate crimes which does have an affect on the Economy, but Japan has had a long history of Inside trading, Corporate thievery and governments Bribery to a degree that would get most American CEOs in jail and such activities occurred not only in the Depressed 1990s ,but doing the Japanese Boom decades of the 1950s, 1960s, 1970s and the 1980s). Given the point here is to show little or no connection between a successful economy and low crime rate lets get on to the other problems of the Japanese Economy.

As I said in my previous post most of the Japanese banks are bankrupt given that in Japan Corporation tend to borrow money from their bankers to raise funds instead of issuing stock. This tendency magnifies the general bad conditions of most Japanese Corporations (Most of Corporate Japan has NOT Recovered the economic downturn of the early 1990s where the Japanese Stocks just kept falling). Below is a better paper than I can do on the problems of the Japanese Economy: For more on the Japanese Banking Problem see:
http://econwpa.wustl.edu/eps/get/papers/0411/0411001.pdf#search='Japanese%20Stock%20Market%20Burst'

Now as to Defense, Japan is the Number two world wide when it comes to Defense Spending (the US is #1, with just over 1/2 of the World Defense spending being spent by the US). Given the US alliance bing #2 in spending is NOT always a good sign, as a ex-colonel told me when I took his class in Collage in the late 1970s "Why does Japan Need an Armored Division?" and even after the end of the Cold War Japan still has an Armored Division with new up to the date tanks.

As to welfare, during the early 1990s Japan CUT its support for its elderly. Japan's seniors protested (and it even made the US News where I picked it up from) but the cuts were made to "balance the Budget". Japan kept its military spending, kept its support for rural outlaying areas and made sure their corporation were NOT taxed excessively, but the Seniors benefits were cut. Japan's welfare and Health system is better than the US, but that is NOT saying much. In most cases Japan's health care package is less than Europe (Through this is often open to debate since the systems are about the same).

Thus my point is NOT that Japan does a bad job of providing Health care, or bad job in Defense or "Law and ORder", the problem is its economy. That Economy has NOT, for all practical purposes, expanded since 1990 and can NOT expand unless it reforms its banks and Corporations. Except for the some of the top end Japanese Corporation (Generally the post-WWII Corporations like Honda and Sony) all of the top Japanese Corporations tend to be interconnected to the banks and if their bank fails so do the corporation tied in with those banks (This includes Successful Corporations like Toyota as while as failed Japanese Corporations). That is the "Drunken" part of their Economy. As long as revenue is coming in to service the bad debts of the banks and their fellow Corporations the problem can be delayed, but if for any reason that money STOPS to flow the problems must then be faced and Japan will have to make decisions it would prefer NOT to make (i.e. cut it safety net AND cut its support for its Corporations).

[idlisambar]

23. response

I had interpreted your claim that Japan has "inefficient government structures" to mean that Japan is not an efficient provider of government services, but I guess that is not what you are saying. Your real point is that the Japanese government has not managed the Japanese economy very well. Fine, let's look at that....

That Economy has NOT, for all practical purposes, expanded since 1990 and can NOT expand unless it reforms its banks and Corporations.

First of all, even according to official figures this is not really the case. Japan's average GDP growth in the 90's was around 1.3%, and it is somewhat higher now at around 2% a year. Remembering that unlike the U.S., Japan is not experiencing population growth and is aging more rapidly, much of the difference in growth is explained just by demographics.

Second, one must take into account the fact that different nations use different measurement standards when calculating GDP. The U.S. standards are very generous compared to Japan (and most other nations), so that in effect a large part of the difference is simply measurement issues and not anything really substantial. In fact, going from productivity numbers the differences are very slight during the 90's with Japan even having an edge in the (theoretically untenable) quantity total factor productivity.....

http://www.economist.com/finance/PrinterFriendly.cfm?Story_ID=2155438

Finally, the yen is kept heavily undervalued in currency markets whereas the dollar is kept heavily overvalued. The inevitable "correction" (end of the drunk period) would increase the relative GDP of Japan vs. the US considerably, and per capita GDP (even according to official figures) is almost certain to be higher than the U.S. after the correction.

All things considered Japanese economic performance has been pretty good relative to the U.S. despite the issues that you begin to point out. The government can't be messing up things that bad if that is the case.

[nick303]

27. No, of course the Japanese government hasn't messed up their economy

The government can't be messing up things that bad if that is the case.

This is utter nonsense. They only managed to destroy more of their country's wealth in a five year period than even our current US administration has managed. We can look at this in a couple ways:

The Nikkei is at more or less the same level as it was in 1987.
http://chart.finance.yahoo.com/c/my/_/_n225

GDP Growth is weak, and what Dale Jorgansen has to say about it is not enough to close this gap:


Japan's national debt is still sky-high, and for all the talk you hear about America's debt, Japan's is still in excess of 100% of GDP, while America's is between 60 and 70%.
A recent article:
http://www.japantoday.com/e/?content=news&cat=3&id=350082

Remembering that unlike the U.S., Japan is not experiencing population growth and is aging more rapidly, much of the difference in growth is explained just by demographics.

If we try to control for some of the differences, (small island, ethnic homogenity, relatively low population growth) three economies more efficiently run than Japan's readily come to mind: Iceland, Singapore, and Hong Kong SAR.

Browse this site, you will see on most measures they come ahead, I'll start with GDP per capita at PPP:
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph-T/eco_gdp_ppp_cap


While some may try to debate it, the vast majority of experts have blamed Japan's stagnant performance on the bungling of the MOF. (See the book mentioned earlier). With all that said, looking forward the Japanese economy under Koizumi is, pardon the phrase, "turning the corner". The recent elections have shown that Japan is finally ready to start cutting out the fat (i.e. reducing the size of the state).

Given this, the sentiment of the citizenry seems fairly optimistic, the recent deflation spree is under control, and the MOF is losing more and more of its power to strangle the economy. In the next few years I may be willing to say that the Japanese government does a very efficient job of managing its economy, but not yet.

[idlisambar]

28. .....

Jorgenson's results don't erase the gap, and I didn't claim they did, but they do close it enough to give Japan 2% annual GDP growth in the 90's (by "approximate" U.S. measurement standards) which is not a bad figure for a nation with Japan's demographics and level of development. In any case GDP, with all of its subjective elements, is far from a definitive indicator.

You mention Japan's high public debt burden, which is indeed a serious issue, but much of that debt is actually a reflection of US weakness rather than Japanese, as their government has had to borrow to prop up the dollar through purchases of US assets. Also worth mentioning is the fact that the Japanese government, unlike the U.S. does not depend on foreign interests to finance its debt.

As for the Nikkei, that it has not returned to its 80's bubble levels is not surprising or revealing. I believe that the U.S. stock market only returned to its 1929 levels by the late 50's/ early 60's after many years of solid economic growth. In any case the stock market is not nearly as significant in Japan's bank-centric financial system.

[bemildred]

26. They are building up a modern industrial base while gutting ours.

You can't buy that at any price. Why would they want to stop?

[rustydad]

29. China and India

Both are building infrastructure like crazy for entry into the era of the automobile. Neither country is stupid. Both know that Peak Oil is here or near. So why the push to the car for everyone? And why the loans to the US? My take is this. The Chinese know that Peak Oil will cause oil prices to soar. Sooner or later it will be obvious that China will have to use their trade surplus to pay for the higher oil. The US will not have buyers for our hot off the press greenbacks. Interest rates will rise in the US. Imports will become more expensive as inflation rises in the US. Eventually China will pull out of the US it's investments. The US economy will tank. The oil exporters will become the consumer of choice for China and India. As the US becomes a backwater of Mexico and Canada demand destruction will set in (instead of using 25% of worlds oil we will only use what we can produce internally if that). In other words a great shift in the world economy and geopolitics is about to take place. The US is being discarded as it is no longer worth anything to the producing countries. We are like mistletoe, a parasite on the world of producing countries. The shift will cause temporary disruptions for all but recovery will leave the producing countries much better off. And the USA will devolve into an agrarian society of far fewer people and a tourist destination for our National Parks which will be owned by the United Nations, a gift to the world from China. Growth industry in the US? Park maintanence, coffin carpenters, grave diggers. Bob

[agincourt]

30. Don't forget,

Private prison workers, Black Water mercs, and extortionists(collection agencies).