Flat tax help

[Eumenides]

The other day at work, someone mentioned that they thought we should abolish the IRS and institute a flat tax. A few others, who were idly standing around, commented that they also thought it would be a good idea. Now, I am no expert, but isn't the flat tax one of those conservative panaceas that sounds really good but is INCREDIBLY STUPID! Can anyone direct me to some online resources that I can show to these people? I merely pointed out that it seems that taking 10% of someone who's dirt poor takes a lot more $$ than taking it from say, Bill Gates. But of course, I could be wrong.

[dkamin]

1. I don't know resources

But the basic argument against a flat tax is twofold:

1) the somewhat controversial proposition that tax systems should be progressive, since rich people have obviously gotten more out of society and so should pay more back into society (this has been severely challenged by the basically unchallenged conservative ideological war on community and society, aka the Ayn Rand individualism/selfishness agenda); and

2) the more pragmatic point that every conservative proposal for flat taxes only covers INCOME TAX. normal people pay a much higher percentage of their overall tax burden on things like sales taxes, payroll taxes, etc., whereas rich people pay a much higher percentage of their overall tax burden on income tax. also, dividend and capital gain income is NEVER COVERED under conservative proposals for the flat tax, and these sources of income are taxed at significantly lower levels than actual employment income. if the entire tax load was flat, the flat tax argument might make more sense. as it is, however, a flat tax on income taxes only would result in the extremely unjust result of rich people paying a much lower percentage in taxes than poor people. in fact, many obscenely rich people already pay much less in taxes, percentage-wise, than the rest of us, due to the decades long assault on a fair tax code that has been conducted by the radical right.

[Abe Linkman]

2. And, THEY said what when you "merely pointed out"

"I merely pointed out that it seems that taking 10% of someone who's dirt poor takes a lot more $$ than taking it from say, Bill Gates. But of course, I could be wrong."

What did THEY say? Most true progressives are aware of the incredibly UNfairness inherent in ALL flat-tax schemes (which include sales taxes, and a myriad of "fees" charged by local, state, and federal gov'ts.), as you pointed out.

Did THEY "get it" when you pointed out how unfair it is?

[Eumenides]

3. flat tax diatribe

No, they didn't get it at all. The one person in particular thought that was fine and dandy b/c "everyone pays the same 10%" so it must be fair. I've already had two run ins with this guy. The first was his decidedly Anti-Union comments in which he implied the sole purpose of unions was to allow guys to make $25 an hour pushing the broom. The other time was when he was ranting against the city raising the rates on parking meters. He was indignant. The Nerve!

[papau]

4. Te' Conis Eumenides - as the rich pay less than a flat tax now it is

"progressive" to change to a flat tax - but only if it replaces the 2 income taxes - the Social Security "payroll tax" and the FIT!

Saddly it is not much worse than the current system even if you just consider FIT - indeed it is more progressive if the flat tax taxes the 90% of the income the rich get each year that is not taxed now - I mean investment income, gains, interest, dividends - at 100 cents on the dollar - so that they get their large after tax returns the old fashion way - by charging a higher interest rate.

Finally - add a per person deductible of 10,000 per person in the calculation of income in our "flat tax system", of course keeping the "flat percentage" that most folks associate with a "flat tax", and we have a simple tax system that is quite progressive!

[papau]

13. The GOP do not want a flat tax as the Rich would pay much more

The deveopement of the 27.7% in one of the posts below reflects budget over national income (line 17 below) - but national income includes interest.

If investment returns were indeed taxed at 100 cents on a dollar, the flat tax rate could be as low as 27.5%.

But Bush wants dividends taxed at 15 cents on the dollar, etc - so the flat tax rate on all other income will be in the mid to high 30's. And the Rich will pay only 10% of what they would otherwise pay under a flat tax. So I do not see the GOP ever passing a flat tax income tax that covers the budget without needing borrowing or some other tax that screws the non-rich (like the payroll tax)




http://www.bea.doc.gov/bea/dn/nipaweb/TableViewFixed.asp?SelectedTable=17&FirstYear=2002&LastYear=2003&Freq=Qtr


Line 2002 I 2002 II 2002 III 2002 IV 2003 I 2003 II
1 Gross domestic product 10,313.1 10,376.9 10,506.2 10,588.8 10,688.4 10,802.7
2 Plus: Income receipts from the rest of the world 264.7 276.0 287.3 284.2 281.3 282.4
3 Less: Income payments to the rest of the world 262.8 296.1 298.2 293.4 291.5 286.0
4 Equals: Gross national product 10,314.9 10,356.8 10,495.3 10,579.7 10,678.2 10,799.1
5 Less: Consumption of fixed capital 1,363.5 1,389.8 1,405.3 1,415.4 1,421.4 1,418.4
6 Private 1,136.9 1,161.2 1,174.8 1,182.7 1,185.9 1,180.9
7 Capital consumption allowances 1,324.0 1,322.0 1,317.9 1,315.9 1,323.5 1,419.2
8 Less: Capital consumption adjustment 187.0 160.8 143.1 133.3 137.6 238.3
9 Government 226.5 228.6 230.5 232.7 235.5 237.5
10 General government 192.5 194.1 195.7 197.6 200.0 201.7
11 Government enterprises 34.0 34.4 34.8 35.1 35.5 35.8
12 Equals: Net national product 8,951.5 8,967.0 9,090.0 9,164.3 9,256.8 9,380.6
13 Less: Indirect business tax and nontax liability 786.2 795.1 806.9 813.3 821.7 833.6
14 Business transfer payments 43.8 43.9 44.4 44.3 44.9 44.8
15 Statistical discrepancy -110.0 -165.0 -82.1 -78.2 -74.6 -69.8
16 Plus: Subsidies less current surplus of government enterprises 37.0 35.1 29.1 29.0 30.7 45.9
17 Equals: National income 8,268.5 8,328.0 8,349.9 8,413.9 8,495.5 8,618.0
18 Less: Corporate profits with inventory valuation and capital consumption adjustments 797.6 785.0 771.0 796.1 816.5 897.1
19 Net interest 672.8 678.1 687.6 698.3 703.3 706.6
20 Contributions for social insurance 740.4 746.1 748.8 750.9 762.0 765.8
21 Wage accruals less disbursements .0 .0 .0 .0 1.4 -1.4
22 Plus: Personal interest income 1,069.9 1,082.3 1,080.7 1,080.9 1,075.8 1,081.5
23 Personal dividend income 423.7 430.3 437.3 443.8 451.2 459.0
24 Government transfer payments to persons 1,217.4 1,247.7 1,263.1 1,283.5 1,304.9 1,329.3
25 Business transfer payments to persons 34.6 34.9 35.3 35.6 35.9 36.3
26 Equals: Personal income 8,803.4 8,914.0 8,958.9 9,012.5 9,080.2 9,156.0
Addenda:
27 Gross domestic income 10,423.1 10,541.8 10,588.3 10,667.0 10,763.0 10,872.5
28 Gross national income 10,424.9 10,521.8 10,577.4 10,657.9 10,752.8 10,868.9
29 Net domestic product 8,949.6 8,987.0 9,101.0 9,173.4 9,267.0 9,384.3

[Scottie72]

5. I was actually thinking about that sort of thing today....

I would support it IF AND ONLY IF!!!! there is a sizeable standard deduction applied to your income. I would say, for the sake of the argument, probably around 25K -30K for single and 35K-40K for families with children.

This basically means that if your single you are not taxed on the income you make up until you reach the standard deduction.


Example:For a flat tax of 15% above the standard deduction.

for single filer.

0-30k (30k is the standard deduction) $0 tax 0%
35K tax = $750 2.1%
60k tax = $4500 7.5%
125K tax = $14,250 11.4%
1Million Tax = 145,000 14.5%

and so on.... the tax percentage approaches 15% for the wealthiest.
This is a very progressive way to initiate a "flat tax". With the standard deduction added in those who really could use a a tax break actually obtain a very nice tax break.

IE I earn about 45K.. last year I paid about 7K in taxes so my tax cut woul amount to about 5K. I would only owe 2250 in taxes.


There would be no other deductions other than the standard deduction. My standard deductions are trying to approach what I would consider a living wage.


I do understand that with all the different decuctions this could cause some in the middle class and upper middle class to have a tax increase but I haven't looked at it all that closely. This is just a very quick analysis that I looked at today.

[swinney]

6. any tax question to this source-plus few comments

www.ctj.org
www.cbpp.org
www.fairtaxes4all.org

Flat Tax can work but cannot ever be simple one rate fits all.

Current National Income about 8,000 Billion.
Current budget about 2,200 Billion.

To get 2,200 Billion you will need a rate of 27.5% on every income.

How can you tax lowest incomes? Corporations would see a hugh increase. Many of rich would get big increase due to elimination of deductions.

We need---a SIMPLE SYSTEM. ELIMINATE DEDUCTIONS. TAX THE RICH AT MUCH HIGHER RATE. Ease taxes on consumers to buy homes. A home results in many purchases.

Ease taxes on necessities. National Health Care.

President Clinton knew more about Governance than any President in History. He knew where to TARGET tax cuts. No across the board.
He knew where to target our revenues to get the greatest benefit for (all).


Do not forget that until 1981 we had for decades a top rate as high as 90%.

The Economy boomed in 1950's and 1960's with high top rate.

Other nations succeed with higher taxes than USA.
Other nations have much better societies than USA.A fact.
Other nations have much better K-12 educations than USA.
USA has best higher Education System in the world.
USA has greatest killing machine in history.
USA spends more on Killing Machines than all rest of government programs combined. It is such a shame.

All forget Clinton's request for a little 5 Billion Education loan to improve school infrastructure and Repugs killed it.

It was no freebie. It was a loan on which federal government would pay--only--interest. About 300 Million cost for us. Big deal. Repugs fought it like it was end of world.

Repugs have poor priorities for us. That is why I could never again vote for a Repug for a federal office. Never.
[e-mail]

[swinney]

10. my post on flat tax Screwed big time. many of same?

I do not know how to delete when such an error occurs omeone inform me.

Sorry.
[e-mail]

[swinney]

7. any tax question to this source-plus few comments

www.ctj.org
www.cbpp.org
www.fairtaxes4all.org

Flat Tax can work but cannot ever be simple one rate fits all.

Current National Income about 8,000 Billion.
Current budget about 2,200 Billion.

To get 2,200 Billion you will need a rate of 27.5% on every income.

How can you tax lowest incomes? Corporations would see a hugh increase. Many of rich would get big increase due to elimination of deductions.

We need---a SIMPLE SYSTEM. ELIMINATE DEDUCTIONS. TAX THE RICH AT MUCH HIGHER RATE. Ease taxes on consumers to buy homes. A home results in many purchases.

Ease taxes on necessities. National Health Care.

President Clinton knew more about Governance than any President in History. He knew where to TARGET tax cuts. No across the board.
He knew where to target our revenues to get the greatest benefit for (all).


Do not forget that until 1981 we had for decades a top rate as high as 90%.

The Economy boomed in 1950's and 1960's with high top rate.

Other nations succeed with higher taxes than USA.
Other nations have much better societies than USA.A fact.
Other nations have much better K-12 educations than USA.
USA has best higher Education System in the world.
USA has greatest killing machine in history.
USA spends more on Killing Machines than all rest of government programs combined. It is such a shame.

All forget Clinton's request for a little 5 Billion Education loan to improve school infrastructure and Repugs killed it.

It was no freebie. It was a loan on which federal government would pay--only--interest. About 300 Million cost for us. Big deal. Repugs fought it like it was end of world.

Repugs have poor priorities for us. That is why I could never again vote for a Repug for a federal office. Never.
[e-mail]

[swinney]

any tax question to this source-plus few comments

www.ctj.org
www.cbpp.org
www.fairtaxes4all.org

Flat Tax can work but cannot ever be simple one rate fits all.

Current National Income about 8,000 Billion.
Current budget about 2,200 Billion.

To get 2,200 Billion you will need a rate of 27.5% on every income.

How can you tax lowest incomes? Corporations would see a hugh increase. Many of rich would get big increase due to elimination of deductions.

We need---a SIMPLE SYSTEM. ELIMINATE DEDUCTIONS. TAX THE RICH AT MUCH HIGHER RATE. Ease taxes on consumers to buy homes. A home results in many purchases.

Ease taxes on necessities. National Health Care.

President Clinton knew more about Governance than any President in History. He knew where to TARGET tax cuts. No across the board.
He knew where to target our revenues to get the greatest benefit for (all).


Do not forget that until 1981 we had for decades a top rate as high as 90%.

The Economy boomed in 1950's and 1960's with high top rate.

Other nations succeed with higher taxes than USA.
Other nations have much better societies than USA.A fact.
Other nations have much better K-12 educations than USA.
USA has best higher Education System in the world.
USA has greatest killing machine in history.
USA spends more on Killing Machines than all rest of government programs combined. It is such a shame.

All forget Clinton's request for a little 5 Billion Education loan to improve school infrastructure and Repugs killed it.

It was no freebie. It was a loan on which federal government would pay--only--interest. About 300 Million cost for us. Big deal. Repugs fought it like it was end of world.

Repugs have poor priorities for us. That is why I could never again vote for a Repug for a federal office. Never.
[e-mail]

[swinney]

any tax question to this source-plus few comments

www.ctj.org
www.cbpp.org
www.fairtaxes4all.org

Flat Tax can work but cannot ever be simple one rate fits all.

Current National Income about 8,000 Billion.
Current budget about 2,200 Billion.

To get 2,200 Billion you will need a rate of 27.5% on every income.

How can you tax lowest incomes? Corporations would see a hugh increase. Many of rich would get big increase due to elimination of deductions.

We need---a SIMPLE SYSTEM. ELIMINATE DEDUCTIONS. TAX THE RICH AT MUCH HIGHER RATE. Ease taxes on consumers to buy homes. A home results in many purchases.

Ease taxes on necessities. National Health Care.

President Clinton knew more about Governance than any President in History. He knew where to TARGET tax cuts. No across the board.
He knew where to target our revenues to get the greatest benefit for (all).


Do not forget that until 1981 we had for decades a top rate as high as 90%.

The Economy boomed in 1950's and 1960's with high top rate.

Other nations succeed with higher taxes than USA.
Other nations have much better societies than USA.A fact.
Other nations have much better K-12 educations than USA.
USA has best higher Education System in the world.
USA has greatest killing machine in history.
USA spends more on Killing Machines than all rest of government programs combined. It is such a shame.

All forget Clinton's request for a little 5 Billion Education loan to improve school infrastructure and Repugs killed it.

It was no freebie. It was a loan on which federal government would pay--only--interest. About 300 Million cost for us. Big deal. Repugs fought it like it was end of world.

Repugs have poor priorities for us. That is why I could never again vote for a Repug for a federal office. Never.
[e-mail]

[swinney]

any tax question to this source-plus few comments

www.ctj.org
www.cbpp.org
www.fairtaxes4all.org

Flat Tax can work but cannot ever be simple one rate fits all.

Current National Income about 8,000 Billion.
Current budget about 2,200 Billion.

To get 2,200 Billion you will need a rate of 27.5% on every income.

How can you tax lowest incomes? Corporations would see a hugh increase. Many of rich would get big increase due to elimination of deductions.

We need---a SIMPLE SYSTEM. ELIMINATE DEDUCTIONS. TAX THE RICH AT MUCH HIGHER RATE. Ease taxes on consumers to buy homes. A home results in many purchases.

Ease taxes on necessities. National Health Care.

President Clinton knew more about Governance than any President in History. He knew where to TARGET tax cuts. No across the board.
He knew where to target our revenues to get the greatest benefit for (all).


Do not forget that until 1981 we had for decades a top rate as high as 90%.

The Economy boomed in 1950's and 1960's with high top rate.

Other nations succeed with higher taxes than USA.
Other nations have much better societies than USA.A fact.
Other nations have much better K-12 educations than USA.
USA has best higher Education System in the world.
USA has greatest killing machine in history.
USA spends more on Killing Machines than all rest of government programs combined. It is such a shame.

All forget Clinton's request for a little 5 Billion Education loan to improve school infrastructure and Repugs killed it.

It was no freebie. It was a loan on which federal government would pay--only--interest. About 300 Million cost for us. Big deal. Repugs fought it like it was end of world.

Repugs have poor priorities for us. That is why I could never again vote for a Repug for a federal office. Never.
[e-mail]

[swinney]

any tax question to this source-plus few comments

www.ctj.org
www.cbpp.org
www.fairtaxes4all.org

Flat Tax can work but cannot ever be simple one rate fits all.

Current National Income about 8,000 Billion.
Current budget about 2,200 Billion.

To get 2,200 Billion you will need a rate of 27.5% on every income.

How can you tax lowest incomes? Corporations would see a hugh increase. Many of rich would get big increase due to elimination of deductions.

We need---a SIMPLE SYSTEM. ELIMINATE DEDUCTIONS. TAX THE RICH AT MUCH HIGHER RATE. Ease taxes on consumers to buy homes. A home results in many purchases.

Ease taxes on necessities. National Health Care.

President Clinton knew more about Governance than any President in History. He knew where to TARGET tax cuts. No across the board.
He knew where to target our revenues to get the greatest benefit for (all).


Do not forget that until 1981 we had for decades a top rate as high as 90%.

The Economy boomed in 1950's and 1960's with high top rate.

Other nations succeed with higher taxes than USA.
Other nations have much better societies than USA.A fact.
Other nations have much better K-12 educations than USA.
USA has best higher Education System in the world.
USA has greatest killing machine in history.
USA spends more on Killing Machines than all rest of government programs combined. It is such a shame.

All forget Clinton's request for a little 5 Billion Education loan to improve school infrastructure and Repugs killed it.

It was no freebie. It was a loan on which federal government would pay--only--interest. About 300 Million cost for us. Big deal. Repugs fought it like it was end of world.

Repugs have poor priorities for us. That is why I could never again vote for a Repug for a federal office. Never.
[e-mail]

[swinney]

any tax question to this source-plus few comments

www.ctj.org
www.cbpp.org
www.fairtaxes4all.org

Flat Tax can work but cannot ever be simple one rate fits all.

Current National Income about 8,000 Billion.
Current budget about 2,200 Billion.

To get 2,200 Billion you will need a rate of 27.5% on every income.

How can you tax lowest incomes? Corporations would see a hugh increase. Many of rich would get big increase due to elimination of deductions.

We need---a SIMPLE SYSTEM. ELIMINATE DEDUCTIONS. TAX THE RICH AT MUCH HIGHER RATE. Ease taxes on consumers to buy homes. A home results in many purchases.

Ease taxes on necessities. National Health Care.

President Clinton knew more about Governance than any President in History. He knew where to TARGET tax cuts. No across the board.
He knew where to target our revenues to get the greatest benefit for (all).


Do not forget that until 1981 we had for decades a top rate as high as 90%.

The Economy boomed in 1950's and 1960's with high top rate.

Other nations succeed with higher taxes than USA.
Other nations have much better societies than USA.A fact.
Other nations have much better K-12 educations than USA.
USA has best higher Education System in the world.
USA has greatest killing machine in history.
USA spends more on Killing Machines than all rest of government programs combined. It is such a shame.

All forget Clinton's request for a little 5 Billion Education loan to improve school infrastructure and Repugs killed it.

It was no freebie. It was a loan on which federal government would pay--only--interest. About 300 Million cost for us. Big deal. Repugs fought it like it was end of world.

Repugs have poor priorities for us. That is why I could never again vote for a Repug for a federal office. Never.
[e-mail]

[swinney]

any tax question to this source-plus few comments

www.ctj.org
www.cbpp.org
www.fairtaxes4all.org

Flat Tax can work but cannot ever be simple one rate fits all.

Current National Income about 8,000 Billion.
Current budget about 2,200 Billion.

To get 2,200 Billion you will need a rate of 27.5% on every income.

How can you tax lowest incomes? Corporations would see a hugh increase. Many of rich would get big increase due to elimination of deductions.

We need---a SIMPLE SYSTEM. ELIMINATE DEDUCTIONS. TAX THE RICH AT MUCH HIGHER RATE. Ease taxes on consumers to buy homes. A home results in many purchases.

Ease taxes on necessities. National Health Care.

President Clinton knew more about Governance than any President in History. He knew where to TARGET tax cuts. No across the board.
He knew where to target our revenues to get the greatest benefit for (all).


Do not forget that until 1981 we had for decades a top rate as high as 90%.

The Economy boomed in 1950's and 1960's with high top rate.

Other nations succeed with higher taxes than USA.
Other nations have much better societies than USA.A fact.
Other nations have much better K-12 educations than USA.
USA has best higher Education System in the world.
USA has greatest killing machine in history.
USA spends more on Killing Machines than all rest of government programs combined. It is such a shame.

All forget Clinton's request for a little 5 Billion Education loan to improve school infrastructure and Repugs killed it.

It was no freebie. It was a loan on which federal government would pay--only--interest. About 300 Million cost for us. Big deal. Repugs fought it like it was end of world.

Repugs have poor priorities for us. That is why I could never again vote for a Repug for a federal office. Never.
[e-mail]

[swinney]

any tax question to this source-plus few comments

www.ctj.org
www.cbpp.org
www.fairtaxes4all.org

Flat Tax can work but cannot ever be simple one rate fits all.

Current National Income about 8,000 Billion.
Current budget about 2,200 Billion.

To get 2,200 Billion you will need a rate of 27.5% on every income.

How can you tax lowest incomes? Corporations would see a hugh increase. Many of rich would get big increase due to elimination of deductions.

We need---a SIMPLE SYSTEM. ELIMINATE DEDUCTIONS. TAX THE RICH AT MUCH HIGHER RATE. Ease taxes on consumers to buy homes. A home results in many purchases.

Ease taxes on necessities. National Health Care.

President Clinton knew more about Governance than any President in History. He knew where to TARGET tax cuts. No across the board.
He knew where to target our revenues to get the greatest benefit for (all).


Do not forget that until 1981 we had for decades a top rate as high as 90%.

The Economy boomed in 1950's and 1960's with high top rate.

Other nations succeed with higher taxes than USA.
Other nations have much better societies than USA.A fact.
Other nations have much better K-12 educations than USA.
USA has best higher Education System in the world.
USA has greatest killing machine in history.
USA spends more on Killing Machines than all rest of government programs combined. It is such a shame.

All forget Clinton's request for a little 5 Billion Education loan to improve school infrastructure and Repugs killed it.

It was no freebie. It was a loan on which federal government would pay--only--interest. About 300 Million cost for us. Big deal. Repugs fought it like it was end of world.

Repugs have poor priorities for us. That is why I could never again vote for a Repug for a federal office. Never.
[e-mail]

[swinney]

any tax question to this source-plus few comments

www.ctj.org
www.cbpp.org
www.fairtaxes4all.org

Flat Tax can work but cannot ever be simple one rate fits all.

Current National Income about 8,000 Billion.
Current budget about 2,200 Billion.

To get 2,200 Billion you will need a rate of 27.5% on every income.

How can you tax lowest incomes? Corporations would see a hugh increase. Many of rich would get big increase due to elimination of deductions.

We need---a SIMPLE SYSTEM. ELIMINATE DEDUCTIONS. TAX THE RICH AT MUCH HIGHER RATE. Ease taxes on consumers to buy homes. A home results in many purchases.

Ease taxes on necessities. National Health Care.

President Clinton knew more about Governance than any President in History. He knew where to TARGET tax cuts. No across the board.
He knew where to target our revenues to get the greatest benefit for (all).


Do not forget that until 1981 we had for decades a top rate as high as 90%.

The Economy boomed in 1950's and 1960's with high top rate.

Other nations succeed with higher taxes than USA.
Other nations have much better societies than USA.A fact.
Other nations have much better K-12 educations than USA.
USA has best higher Education System in the world.
USA has greatest killing machine in history.
USA spends more on Killing Machines than all rest of government programs combined. It is such a shame.

All forget Clinton's request for a little 5 Billion Education loan to improve school infrastructure and Repugs killed it.

It was no freebie. It was a loan on which federal government would pay--only--interest. About 300 Million cost for us. Big deal. Repugs fought it like it was end of world.

Repugs have poor priorities for us. That is why I could never again vote for a Repug for a federal office. Never.
[e-mail]

[swinney]

any tax question to this source-plus few comments

www.ctj.org
www.cbpp.org
www.fairtaxes4all.org

Flat Tax can work but cannot ever be simple one rate fits all.

Current National Income about 8,000 Billion.
Current budget about 2,200 Billion.

To get 2,200 Billion you will need a rate of 27.5% on every income.

How can you tax lowest incomes? Corporations would see a hugh increase. Many of rich would get big increase due to elimination of deductions.

We need---a SIMPLE SYSTEM. ELIMINATE DEDUCTIONS. TAX THE RICH AT MUCH HIGHER RATE. Ease taxes on consumers to buy homes. A home results in many purchases.

Ease taxes on necessities. National Health Care.

President Clinton knew more about Governance than any President in History. He knew where to TARGET tax cuts. No across the board.
He knew where to target our revenues to get the greatest benefit for (all).


Do not forget that until 1981 we had for decades a top rate as high as 90%.

The Economy boomed in 1950's and 1960's with high top rate.

Other nations succeed with higher taxes than USA.
Other nations have much better societies than USA.A fact.
Other nations have much better K-12 educations than USA.
USA has best higher Education System in the world.
USA has greatest killing machine in history.
USA spends more on Killing Machines than all rest of government programs combined. It is such a shame.

All forget Clinton's request for a little 5 Billion Education loan to improve school infrastructure and Repugs killed it.

It was no freebie. It was a loan on which federal government would pay--only--interest. About 300 Million cost for us. Big deal. Repugs fought it like it was end of world.

Repugs have poor priorities for us. That is why I could never again vote for a Repug for a federal office. Never.
[e-mail]

[swinney]

any tax question to this source-plus few comments

www.ctj.org
www.cbpp.org
www.fairtaxes4all.org

Flat Tax can work but cannot ever be simple one rate fits all.

Current National Income about 8,000 Billion.
Current budget about 2,200 Billion.

To get 2,200 Billion you will need a rate of 27.5% on every income.

How can you tax lowest incomes? Corporations would see a hugh increase. Many of rich would get big increase due to elimination of deductions.

We need---a SIMPLE SYSTEM. ELIMINATE DEDUCTIONS. TAX THE RICH AT MUCH HIGHER RATE. Ease taxes on consumers to buy homes. A home results in many purchases.

Ease taxes on necessities. National Health Care.

President Clinton knew more about Governance than any President in History. He knew where to TARGET tax cuts. No across the board.
He knew where to target our revenues to get the greatest benefit for (all).


Do not forget that until 1981 we had for decades a top rate as high as 90%.

The Economy boomed in 1950's and 1960's with high top rate.

Other nations succeed with higher taxes than USA.
Other nations have much better societies than USA.A fact.
Other nations have much better K-12 educations than USA.
USA has best higher Education System in the world.
USA has greatest killing machine in history.
USA spends more on Killing Machines than all rest of government programs combined. It is such a shame.

All forget Clinton's request for a little 5 Billion Education loan to improve school infrastructure and Repugs killed it.

It was no freebie. It was a loan on which federal government would pay--only--interest. About 300 Million cost for us. Big deal. Repugs fought it like it was end of world.

Repugs have poor priorities for us. That is why I could never again vote for a Repug for a federal office. Never.
[e-mail]

[swinney]

any tax question to this source-plus few comments

www.ctj.org
www.cbpp.org
www.fairtaxes4all.org

Flat Tax can work but cannot ever be simple one rate fits all.

Current National Income about 8,000 Billion.
Current budget about 2,200 Billion.

To get 2,200 Billion you will need a rate of 27.5% on every income.

How can you tax lowest incomes? Corporations would see a hugh increase. Many of rich would get big increase due to elimination of deductions.

We need---a SIMPLE SYSTEM. ELIMINATE DEDUCTIONS. TAX THE RICH AT MUCH HIGHER RATE. Ease taxes on consumers to buy homes. A home results in many purchases.

Ease taxes on necessities. National Health Care.

President Clinton knew more about Governance than any President in History. He knew where to TARGET tax cuts. No across the board.
He knew where to target our revenues to get the greatest benefit for (all).


Do not forget that until 1981 we had for decades a top rate as high as 90%.

The Economy boomed in 1950's and 1960's with high top rate.

Other nations succeed with higher taxes than USA.
Other nations have much better societies than USA.A fact.
Other nations have much better K-12 educations than USA.
USA has best higher Education System in the world.
USA has greatest killing machine in history.
USA spends more on Killing Machines than all rest of government programs combined. It is such a shame.

All forget Clinton's request for a little 5 Billion Education loan to improve school infrastructure and Repugs killed it.

It was no freebie. It was a loan on which federal government would pay--only--interest. About 300 Million cost for us. Big deal. Repugs fought it like it was end of world.

Repugs have poor priorities for us. That is why I could never again vote for a Repug for a federal office. Never.
[e-mail]

[swinney]

any tax question to this source-plus few comments

www.ctj.org
www.cbpp.org
www.fairtaxes4all.org

Flat Tax can work but cannot ever be simple one rate fits all.

Current National Income about 8,000 Billion.
Current budget about 2,200 Billion.

To get 2,200 Billion you will need a rate of 27.5% on every income.

How can you tax lowest incomes? Corporations would see a hugh increase. Many of rich would get big increase due to elimination of deductions.

We need---a SIMPLE SYSTEM. ELIMINATE DEDUCTIONS. TAX THE RICH AT MUCH HIGHER RATE. Ease taxes on consumers to buy homes. A home results in many purchases.

Ease taxes on necessities. National Health Care.

President Clinton knew more about Governance than any President in History. He knew where to TARGET tax cuts. No across the board.
He knew where to target our revenues to get the greatest benefit for (all).


Do not forget that until 1981 we had for decades a top rate as high as 90%.

The Economy boomed in 1950's and 1960's with high top rate.

Other nations succeed with higher taxes than USA.
Other nations have much better societies than USA.A fact.
Other nations have much better K-12 educations than USA.
USA has best higher Education System in the world.
USA has greatest killing machine in history.
USA spends more on Killing Machines than all rest of government programs combined. It is such a shame.

All forget Clinton's request for a little 5 Billion Education loan to improve school infrastructure and Repugs killed it.

It was no freebie. It was a loan on which federal government would pay--only--interest. About 300 Million cost for us. Big deal. Repugs fought it like it was end of world.

Repugs have poor priorities for us. That is why I could never again vote for a Repug for a federal office. Never.
[e-mail]

[swinney]

any tax question to this source-plus few comments

www.ctj.org
www.cbpp.org
www.fairtaxes4all.org

Flat Tax can work but cannot ever be simple one rate fits all.

Current National Income about 8,000 Billion.
Current budget about 2,200 Billion.

To get 2,200 Billion you will need a rate of 27.5% on every income.

How can you tax lowest incomes? Corporations would see a hugh increase. Many of rich would get big increase due to elimination of deductions.

We need---a SIMPLE SYSTEM. ELIMINATE DEDUCTIONS. TAX THE RICH AT MUCH HIGHER RATE. Ease taxes on consumers to buy homes. A home results in many purchases.

Ease taxes on necessities. National Health Care.

President Clinton knew more about Governance than any President in History. He knew where to TARGET tax cuts. No across the board.
He knew where to target our revenues to get the greatest benefit for (all).


Do not forget that until 1981 we had for decades a top rate as high as 90%.

The Economy boomed in 1950's and 1960's with high top rate.

Other nations succeed with higher taxes than USA.
Other nations have much better societies than USA.A fact.
Other nations have much better K-12 educations than USA.
USA has best higher Education System in the world.
USA has greatest killing machine in history.
USA spends more on Killing Machines than all rest of government programs combined. It is such a shame.

All forget Clinton's request for a little 5 Billion Education loan to improve school infrastructure and Repugs killed it.

It was no freebie. It was a loan on which federal government would pay--only--interest. About 300 Million cost for us. Big deal. Repugs fought it like it was end of world.

Repugs have poor priorities for us. That is why I could never again vote for a Repug for a federal office. Never.
[e-mail]

[swinney]

any tax question to this source-plus few comments

www.ctj.org
www.cbpp.org
www.fairtaxes4all.org

Flat Tax can work but cannot ever be simple one rate fits all.

Current National Income about 8,000 Billion.
Current budget about 2,200 Billion.

To get 2,200 Billion you will need a rate of 27.5% on every income.

How can you tax lowest incomes? Corporations would see a hugh increase. Many of rich would get big increase due to elimination of deductions.

We need---a SIMPLE SYSTEM. ELIMINATE DEDUCTIONS. TAX THE RICH AT MUCH HIGHER RATE. Ease taxes on consumers to buy homes. A home results in many purchases.

Ease taxes on necessities. National Health Care.

President Clinton knew more about Governance than any President in History. He knew where to TARGET tax cuts. No across the board.
He knew where to target our revenues to get the greatest benefit for (all).


Do not forget that until 1981 we had for decades a top rate as high as 90%.

The Economy boomed in 1950's and 1960's with high top rate.

Other nations succeed with higher taxes than USA.
Other nations have much better societies than USA.A fact.
Other nations have much better K-12 educations than USA.
USA has best higher Education System in the world.
USA has greatest killing machine in history.
USA spends more on Killing Machines than all rest of government programs combined. It is such a shame.

All forget Clinton's request for a little 5 Billion Education loan to improve school infrastructure and Repugs killed it.

It was no freebie. It was a loan on which federal government would pay--only--interest. About 300 Million cost for us. Big deal. Repugs fought it like it was end of world.

Repugs have poor priorities for us. That is why I could never again vote for a Repug for a federal office. Never.
[e-mail]

[swinney]

8. any tax question to this source-plus few comments

www.ctj.org
www.cbpp.org
www.fairtaxes4all.org

Flat Tax can work but cannot ever be simple one rate fits all.

Current National Income about 8,000 Billion.
Current budget about 2,200 Billion.

To get 2,200 Billion you will need a rate of 27.5% on every income.

How can you tax lowest incomes? Corporations would see a hugh increase. Many of rich would get big increase due to elimination of deductions.

We need---a SIMPLE SYSTEM. ELIMINATE DEDUCTIONS. TAX THE RICH AT MUCH HIGHER RATE. Ease taxes on consumers to buy homes. A home results in many purchases.

Ease taxes on necessities. National Health Care.

President Clinton knew more about Governance than any President in History. He knew where to TARGET tax cuts. No across the board.
He knew where to target our revenues to get the greatest benefit for (all).


Do not forget that until 1981 we had for decades a top rate as high as 90%.

The Economy boomed in 1950's and 1960's with high top rate.

Other nations succeed with higher taxes than USA.
Other nations have much better societies than USA.A fact.
Other nations have much better K-12 educations than USA.
USA has best higher Education System in the world.
USA has greatest killing machine in history.
USA spends more on Killing Machines than all rest of government programs combined. It is such a shame.

All forget Clinton's request for a little 5 Billion Education loan to improve school infrastructure and Repugs killed it.

It was no freebie. It was a loan on which federal government would pay--only--interest. About 300 Million cost for us. Big deal. Repugs fought it like it was end of world.

Repugs have poor priorities for us. That is why I could never again vote for a Repug for a federal office. Never.
[e-mail]

[swinney]

any tax question to this source-plus few comments

www.ctj.org
www.cbpp.org
www.fairtaxes4all.org

Flat Tax can work but cannot ever be simple one rate fits all.

Current National Income about 8,000 Billion.
Current budget about 2,200 Billion.

To get 2,200 Billion you will need a rate of 27.5% on every income.

How can you tax lowest incomes? Corporations would see a hugh increase. Many of rich would get big increase due to elimination of deductions.

We need---a SIMPLE SYSTEM. ELIMINATE DEDUCTIONS. TAX THE RICH AT MUCH HIGHER RATE. Ease taxes on consumers to buy homes. A home results in many purchases.

Ease taxes on necessities. National Health Care.

President Clinton knew more about Governance than any President in History. He knew where to TARGET tax cuts. No across the board.
He knew where to target our revenues to get the greatest benefit for (all).


Do not forget that until 1981 we had for decades a top rate as high as 90%.

The Economy boomed in 1950's and 1960's with high top rate.

Other nations succeed with higher taxes than USA.
Other nations have much better societies than USA.A fact.
Other nations have much better K-12 educations than USA.
USA has best higher Education System in the world.
USA has greatest killing machine in history.
USA spends more on Killing Machines than all rest of government programs combined. It is such a shame.

All forget Clinton's request for a little 5 Billion Education loan to improve school infrastructure and Repugs killed it.

It was no freebie. It was a loan on which federal government would pay--only--interest. About 300 Million cost for us. Big deal. Repugs fought it like it was end of world.

Repugs have poor priorities for us. That is why I could never again vote for a Repug for a federal office. Never.
[e-mail]

[swinney]

any tax question to this source-plus few comments

www.ctj.org
www.cbpp.org
www.fairtaxes4all.org

Flat Tax can work but cannot ever be simple one rate fits all.

Current National Income about 8,000 Billion.
Current budget about 2,200 Billion.

To get 2,200 Billion you will need a rate of 27.5% on every income.

How can you tax lowest incomes? Corporations would see a hugh increase. Many of rich would get big increase due to elimination of deductions.

We need---a SIMPLE SYSTEM. ELIMINATE DEDUCTIONS. TAX THE RICH AT MUCH HIGHER RATE. Ease taxes on consumers to buy homes. A home results in many purchases.

Ease taxes on necessities. National Health Care.

President Clinton knew more about Governance than any President in History. He knew where to TARGET tax cuts. No across the board.
He knew where to target our revenues to get the greatest benefit for (all).


Do not forget that until 1981 we had for decades a top rate as high as 90%.

The Economy boomed in 1950's and 1960's with high top rate.

Other nations succeed with higher taxes than USA.
Other nations have much better societies than USA.A fact.
Other nations have much better K-12 educations than USA.
USA has best higher Education System in the world.
USA has greatest killing machine in history.
USA spends more on Killing Machines than all rest of government programs combined. It is such a shame.

All forget Clinton's request for a little 5 Billion Education loan to improve school infrastructure and Repugs killed it.

It was no freebie. It was a loan on which federal government would pay--only--interest. About 300 Million cost for us. Big deal. Repugs fought it like it was end of world.

Repugs have poor priorities for us. That is why I could never again vote for a Repug for a federal office. Never.
[e-mail]

[swinney]

any tax question to this source-plus few comments

www.ctj.org
www.cbpp.org
www.fairtaxes4all.org

Flat Tax can work but cannot ever be simple one rate fits all.

Current National Income about 8,000 Billion.
Current budget about 2,200 Billion.

To get 2,200 Billion you will need a rate of 27.5% on every income.

How can you tax lowest incomes? Corporations would see a hugh increase. Many of rich would get big increase due to elimination of deductions.

We need---a SIMPLE SYSTEM. ELIMINATE DEDUCTIONS. TAX THE RICH AT MUCH HIGHER RATE. Ease taxes on consumers to buy homes. A home results in many purchases.

Ease taxes on necessities. National Health Care.

President Clinton knew more about Governance than any President in History. He knew where to TARGET tax cuts. No across the board.
He knew where to target our revenues to get the greatest benefit for (all).


Do not forget that until 1981 we had for decades a top rate as high as 90%.

The Economy boomed in 1950's and 1960's with high top rate.

Other nations succeed with higher taxes than USA.
Other nations have much better societies than USA.A fact.
Other nations have much better K-12 educations than USA.
USA has best higher Education System in the world.
USA has greatest killing machine in history.
USA spends more on Killing Machines than all rest of government programs combined. It is such a shame.

All forget Clinton's request for a little 5 Billion Education loan to improve school infrastructure and Repugs killed it.

It was no freebie. It was a loan on which federal government would pay--only--interest. About 300 Million cost for us. Big deal. Repugs fought it like it was end of world.

Repugs have poor priorities for us. That is why I could never again vote for a Repug for a federal office. Never.
[e-mail]

[swinney]

any tax question to this source-plus few comments

www.ctj.org
www.cbpp.org
www.fairtaxes4all.org

Flat Tax can work but cannot ever be simple one rate fits all.

Current National Income about 8,000 Billion.
Current budget about 2,200 Billion.

To get 2,200 Billion you will need a rate of 27.5% on every income.

How can you tax lowest incomes? Corporations would see a hugh increase. Many of rich would get big increase due to elimination of deductions.

We need---a SIMPLE SYSTEM. ELIMINATE DEDUCTIONS. TAX THE RICH AT MUCH HIGHER RATE. Ease taxes on consumers to buy homes. A home results in many purchases.

Ease taxes on necessities. National Health Care.

President Clinton knew more about Governance than any President in History. He knew where to TARGET tax cuts. No across the board.
He knew where to target our revenues to get the greatest benefit for (all).


Do not forget that until 1981 we had for decades a top rate as high as 90%.

The Economy boomed in 1950's and 1960's with high top rate.

Other nations succeed with higher taxes than USA.
Other nations have much better societies than USA.A fact.
Other nations have much better K-12 educations than USA.
USA has best higher Education System in the world.
USA has greatest killing machine in history.
USA spends more on Killing Machines than all rest of government programs combined. It is such a shame.

All forget Clinton's request for a little 5 Billion Education loan to improve school infrastructure and Repugs killed it.

It was no freebie. It was a loan on which federal government would pay--only--interest. About 300 Million cost for us. Big deal. Repugs fought it like it was end of world.

Repugs have poor priorities for us. That is why I could never again vote for a Repug for a federal office. Never.
[e-mail]

[swinney]

any tax question to this source-plus few comments

www.ctj.org
www.cbpp.org
www.fairtaxes4all.org

Flat Tax can work but cannot ever be simple one rate fits all.

Current National Income about 8,000 Billion.
Current budget about 2,200 Billion.

To get 2,200 Billion you will need a rate of 27.5% on every income.

How can you tax lowest incomes? Corporations would see a hugh increase. Many of rich would get big increase due to elimination of deductions.

We need---a SIMPLE SYSTEM. ELIMINATE DEDUCTIONS. TAX THE RICH AT MUCH HIGHER RATE. Ease taxes on consumers to buy homes. A home results in many purchases.

Ease taxes on necessities. National Health Care.

President Clinton knew more about Governance than any President in History. He knew where to TARGET tax cuts. No across the board.
He knew where to target our revenues to get the greatest benefit for (all).


Do not forget that until 1981 we had for decades a top rate as high as 90%.

The Economy boomed in 1950's and 1960's with high top rate.

Other nations succeed with higher taxes than USA.
Other nations have much better societies than USA.A fact.
Other nations have much better K-12 educations than USA.
USA has best higher Education System in the world.
USA has greatest killing machine in history.
USA spends more on Killing Machines than all rest of government programs combined. It is such a shame.

All forget Clinton's request for a little 5 Billion Education loan to improve school infrastructure and Repugs killed it.

It was no freebie. It was a loan on which federal government would pay--only--interest. About 300 Million cost for us. Big deal. Repugs fought it like it was end of world.

Repugs have poor priorities for us. That is why I could never again vote for a Repug for a federal office. Never.
[e-mail]

[swinney]

any tax question to this source-plus few comments

www.ctj.org
www.cbpp.org
www.fairtaxes4all.org

Flat Tax can work but cannot ever be simple one rate fits all.

Current National Income about 8,000 Billion.
Current budget about 2,200 Billion.

To get 2,200 Billion you will need a rate of 27.5% on every income.

How can you tax lowest incomes? Corporations would see a hugh increase. Many of rich would get big increase due to elimination of deductions.

We need---a SIMPLE SYSTEM. ELIMINATE DEDUCTIONS. TAX THE RICH AT MUCH HIGHER RATE. Ease taxes on consumers to buy homes. A home results in many purchases.

Ease taxes on necessities. National Health Care.

President Clinton knew more about Governance than any President in History. He knew where to TARGET tax cuts. No across the board.
He knew where to target our revenues to get the greatest benefit for (all).


Do not forget that until 1981 we had for decades a top rate as high as 90%.

The Economy boomed in 1950's and 1960's with high top rate.

Other nations succeed with higher taxes than USA.
Other nations have much better societies than USA.A fact.
Other nations have much better K-12 educations than USA.
USA has best higher Education System in the world.
USA has greatest killing machine in history.
USA spends more on Killing Machines than all rest of government programs combined. It is such a shame.

All forget Clinton's request for a little 5 Billion Education loan to improve school infrastructure and Repugs killed it.

It was no freebie. It was a loan on which federal government would pay--only--interest. About 300 Million cost for us. Big deal. Repugs fought it like it was end of world.

Repugs have poor priorities for us. That is why I could never again vote for a Repug for a federal office. Never.
[e-mail]

[swinney]

9. any tax question to this source-plus few comments

www.ctj.org
www.cbpp.org
www.fairtaxes4all.org

Flat Tax can work but cannot ever be simple one rate fits all.

Current National Income about 8,000 Billion.
Current budget about 2,200 Billion.

To get 2,200 Billion you will need a rate of 27.5% on every income.

How can you tax lowest incomes? Corporations would see a hugh increase. Many of rich would get big increase due to elimination of deductions.

We need---a SIMPLE SYSTEM. ELIMINATE DEDUCTIONS. TAX THE RICH AT MUCH HIGHER RATE. Ease taxes on consumers to buy homes. A home results in many purchases.

Ease taxes on necessities. National Health Care.

President Clinton knew more about Governance than any President in History. He knew where to TARGET tax cuts. No across the board.
He knew where to target our revenues to get the greatest benefit for (all).


Do not forget that until 1981 we had for decades a top rate as high as 90%.

The Economy boomed in 1950's and 1960's with high top rate.

Other nations succeed with higher taxes than USA.
Other nations have much better societies than USA.A fact.
Other nations have much better K-12 educations than USA.
USA has best higher Education System in the world.
USA has greatest killing machine in history.
USA spends more on Killing Machines than all rest of government programs combined. It is such a shame.

All forget Clinton's request for a little 5 Billion Education loan to improve school infrastructure and Repugs killed it.

It was no freebie. It was a loan on which federal government would pay--only--interest. About 300 Million cost for us. Big deal. Repugs fought it like it was end of world.

Repugs have poor priorities for us. That is why I could never again vote for a Repug for a federal office. Never.
[e-mail]

[Lefty48197]

11. Flat tax = right wing attempt to redistribut wealth to the wealthy

from working people.

[QuestioningStudent]

12. A primary argument FOR.

Most people who argue for a flat tax acknowledge that a person on the lower end of the income scale will suffer a greater burden in trying to meet their tax liability at any given level of taxation than a person at the higher end of the income scale. This, however is considered irrelevant; what is given preeminent consideration is the realization that everyone is contributing an equal portion of their labor: at any given level of tax liability, the same amount of time expenditures (as a percentage of income) is directed to the government. Thus, the amount of time in a taxpayer's life that they have to sacrifice in return for societal benefits is equal, and no one can be accused of working more than their "fair share" to support others. Everyone does the same amount of work for the government, it's just that some people's time is worth more or less than others. The flat tax ignores the difference in value of labor, and just says, "give us this (fixed) portion of your labor." To the advocates of a flat tax, that is more appealing than forcing some people to devote more of their working lives to supporting government programs and services than other people, as, the flat tax advocates would argue, that in effect puts those people who have to work more (35%, 45% income tax liability compared to 10%, say) in bondage, working to provide extra benefits to those who haven't earned them.

That's as I understand it, but since it's not mine, I can't say I've presented it flawlessly. That's more or less what I've heard, however.