Who are the Middle Class?

[trthnd4jstc]

There are low end millionaires who consider themselves middle class. I consider middle class, a person who has his or her own business, and/or owns his or her own home and make at least double or triple what those in poverty make, and take that all the way up to about $250,000.00 a year in income. How much further above $250,000.00 in yearly income is it before one is upper-class?

[SlipperySlope]

1. Income or asset based?

It's interesting you described the question in terms of income. Some would look at financial class in terms of assets.

[trthnd4jstc]

5. Please remember I am an Electrician, not an Economist.

I believe income is usefull for purchasing goods and services. I think that the Middle Class is primarily the Craftsmen/women, the small business owners, and those with the potential income to becoming such, if they so chose.

[Hydra]

2. Because of the dollar devaluing

The number keeps going up. I think your call of $250,000 is about right for Middle Class- High end Lawyers, Doctors, etc.

Upper class would be drifting into other realms- when you are no longer working for your money, your money is working for you. That isn't really a number so much as a state of constant money coming in with little or no effort.

That said, I would put the range of Upper class at ~2-10 mil per year coming in.

[CrispyQ]

15. I like how you put it.

Middle class is when you are working for your money; upper class is when your money is working for you.

I realize the definition is a little to black & white, & not accurate in all cases, but it is a key difference between the working class & the upper class.

[Hydra]

16. Thank you!

I think it is accurate in enough cases for it to be a general rule- all rules have exceptions. Upper class use their money to make more rather than their labor. I remember what another worker told me once:

"Your work ethic is admirable, but managers are taught to have a group of people do all their work. It's a different skill, and it's a different outlook, not unlike how rich people have their money work for them rather than the other way around."

[Captain Angry]

3. If THAT's the middle class everybody's fighting for...

we're screwed up.

Owning their own business and $250K is "middle"? What is it when you make $50K working for somebody else? You're sure not in poverty, but you're in no danger of being a millionaire either.

Is an individual employee in the middle lower class? upper lower? Lower middle?

[harun]

4. I wonder how many people fall in to:

Own their own home (own it as in it's paid for, no loan of any kind against it) and the property it is on.
Own a business or are employed in a management position (hire/fire power) at a business or have significant non wage (investment) income.

I would consider anyone meeting those criteria upper class (bourgeoisie).

[trthnd4jstc]

8. I can see what you are saying as these people being upper-class.

I do think though that you may be misusing the word "bourgeoisie" to describe the upper-class. Bougeousie is divided into two parts, on part, the petit bourgeoisie are the middle class who may have your two criteria:

"Own their own home (own it as in it's paid for, no loan of any kind against it) and the property it is on.

Own a business or are employed in a management position (hire/fire power) at a business or have significant non wage (investment) income."

Free Dictionary defines as bourgeoisie as such: http://www.thefreedictionary.com/bourgeoisie

bour·geoi·sie (brzhwä-z)
n.
1. The middle class.
2. In Marxist theory, the social group opposed to the proletariat in the class struggle.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition copyright ©2000 by Houghton Mifflin Company. Updated in 2003. Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved.

Here is what Wikipedia has to say about Petite Bourgeoisie. It appears that the definition changed over the course of the French definition of lower middle class, in the 18th and 19th centuries, into the Marxian definition of upper-middle class:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Petite_bourgeoisie
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
bourgeoisie
Noun
the bourgeoisie
1. the middle classes
2. (in Marxist thought) the capitalist ruling class
Collins Essential English Dictionary 2nd Edition 2006 © HarperCollins Publishers 2004, 2006



Petite bourgeoisie
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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Petit-bourgeoisie (or petty bourgeois through folk etymology) is a French term that originally referred to the members of the lower middle social-classes in the 18th and early 19th centuries.

Starting from the mid-19th century, the term was used by Karl Marx and Marxist theorists to refer to a social class that included shop-keepers and professionals. Though distinct from the ordinary working class and the lumpenproletariat, who rely entirely on the sale of their labor-power for survival, the petty is different from the haute bourgeoisie, or capitalist class, who own the means of production and buy the labor-power of others to work it. Though the petty bourgeois do buy the labor power of others, in contrast to the bourgeoisie they typically work alongside their own employees; and although they generally own their own businesses, they do not own a controlling share of the means of production. In modern usage petite bourgeoisie, a class that lies between the workingmen and the capitalists, is often used, usually derisively, to refer to the consumption habits and tastes of the middle class. However, Marxist terminology relates the petite bourgeoisie to its relationship to the means of production and work, not to tastes, habits of consumption, or lifestyle.


References
Andrews, G. J. and Phillips D R (2005) Petit Bourgeois healthcare? The big small-business of private complementary medical practice Complementary Therapies in Clinical Practice 11, 87-104
F. Bechhofer and B. Elliott, Persistence and change the petit bourgeoisie in the industrial society , Eur J Soc xv 11 (1976), pp. 74–79.
B. Elliott and G. McCrone, What else does someone with capital do?, New Soc 31 (1979), pp. 512–513.
F. Bechhofer and B. Elliott, The petite Bourgeoisie comparative studies of an uneasy stratum , Macmillan, London (1981).
R. Scase and R. Goffee, The real world of the small business owner, Croom Helm, London (1981).
D.R. Phillips and J. Vincent, Petit Bourgeois Care private residential care for the elderly , Policy Politics 14 (1986) (2), pp. 189–208.

Thank you for posting your reply. And thank you to everyone else who is responding.

I would like to see the middle class supported, because I am a part of the Lower Middle Class. I am an electrician, with a tiny business. I would like to succeed in my trade, and business. I always wonder how someone who is making 1/2 million, up to 2 million could consider themselves middle class. I can kind of see it, but some of these people have reserve income and resources that could amount to 10 years survival or more. Without needing replenishment.

I consider the Middle Class to be something better than poor, but not able to hold a livelihood indefinately. It is this lack of continual support that limits the Middle Class from being Upper Class.

I do not believe in Capitalism. I believe in Fair Trade. I believe in the idea of people having the right to a middle class living. I believe that exploiting resources is an inferior means of living. I think that Capitalism causes shortages, and creates fascism. Look at our world now?

[harun]

10. You interject and expound another important criteria

and that is how long are they covered if their income goes away or they lose the physical/mental ability to that income. For example, they own a business but lose all their customers and go under. Expensive cost of living states change the classification. Say someone lives in L.A. and has 1 million dollars left to pay on a loan in their 1.5 million dollar house. Then if they lose work maybe they could only make it 6 months with the expenses of everything in L.A. and they couldn't sell their house. I would not consider this person upper class. Now if someone was in the mid-west and had investment income that got them 20 grand a year, yet their house was paid off and they had no loans and a decent job. If that person lost their job they could possibly go another 20 years or more barring a major medical expense and still maintain their home and feed themselves. Is this person upper class? Maybe.

[fasttense]

6. Nope, you're upper class. Not the uber wealth or idle rich but not middle class either. n/t

[Eagles53]

7. Who is the working class?

I keep hearing the news and candidates talk about the working class. Who is the working class? Is it the middle class? Just because I don't get my hands dirty do I not work? Are doctors not working? Its just kind of annoying to me.

[trthnd4jstc]

9. I think Middle Class and Working Class merges. I also think that we have years of ideas, and ....

Ideas overlap over the years. Definitions get blurred. Definitions even change. I think about this Middle Class Working Class thing partly to get at who the politicians are talking about. I believe that a world that takes care of everybody is superior to the world of selfishness, and exploitation. We need a better system. I have an idea: Fair Trade. End Tyranny. BE Honest. Trade with peope fairly. Hopefully if we can provide enough trade with one another, more of us will be employed.

Our economic system is run by the very wealthy, and these small number of very wealthy people are the among those that get Republicans and Democrats elected. Both Parties have not worked to protect the majority of the people. The majority of the people are the Working Class, and the Middle Class. I believe that the Middle Class and the Working Class, and those in the Upper Class, who care about the future of America, and social justice, we need to make our world a better place. We have to actively be the best people that we can. We need to labor, spend our money, and deal with one another in a Fair Trade manner. We need to increase Trade in America.

It is obvious that the Majority of those in Congress, and the other two branches of the Fed. Government, who are in positions of power, are amongst the Upper Class. They are rich. The vast majority of Senators, Representatives, and top judges are Rich, more than a million in assets: Money, Property, Stocks, and Bonds. These people have shown that they do not represent us. They are representing themselves. Further, these people live an insular life. They do not feel the Crisis happening, or they do not care.

Hyper-inflation is happening. This will hurt the middle class. It is obviously hurting the working class and the poor.

[SlipperySlope]

11. My definition of "working class"

It isn't perfect, but here's the definition I use.

If you *have* to work to maintain a lifestyle that would satisfy you, you are in the working class.
If you could retire today and never work again, but choose not to, then you are not in the working class.

People with large positive net worth are not "working class" because they have reached a point where they no longer *have* to worry about employment or future income.

A young physician making $120k/yr, but struggling to make ends meet after student loans and malpractice insurance is working class.
A senior physician making $120k/yr, with a paid off house, $2M in his IRA, and all his kids done with college is not working class.

[trthnd4jstc]

12. I am a member of the Working Class

Yep!

[raccoon]

13. I'm not sure, but I think a lot of people (maybe including myself) THINK of themselves as middle

class, but they really don't have enough income/assets to qualify.

Another thing, cost of living varies so much within the US that somebody making a certain salary might be middle class in a small town somewhere, but lower class in NYC or some other high-cost area.

[mainer]

14. Even the "upper class" have issues

www.modestmillionaire.blogspot.com

But then, I don't know what upper class is, either.

[Warpy]

17. Historically, being middle class meant

being able to live in one's own home, afford outside help (at least from time to time), educate one's children, and be able to save for retirement. Necessities like food, clothing and medical care fit into that. In other words, middle class people have a comfortable lifestyle and are able to save or invest. They still must work, though.

In most parts of the country, six figures are necessary and on Manhattan, possibly seven, to support the generic nuclear family.

We've all been defined upwards in class. The formerly middle class are now called rich, the former working class (able to live but not to save) are called middle class, the former poor are now called working class (substandard housing, food, health care), and the former destitute are now called poor.

We have a crisis of screwed up definitions thanks to a corrupt media controlled by the class we're supposed to be oblivious to, the wealthy, and by all that debt we've been encouraged to assume for the past 39 years. That crisis has allowed to social safety net to be obliterated for everyone but the destitute, if they still have some sort of permanent address. If they have no address, they're the invisible underclass, something they share with the overclass with the multiple addresses.

Middle class needs to be defined in terms of disposable income, income that can be saved or invested without sacrificing quality of life. Damned few of us are there, no matter what kind of dollar amount you arbitrarily assign it in your area, and the dollar amounts do vary widely.

If savings dollars are being diverted to service debts, you are not middle class.

[Jamesp]

18. The Real Middle-Class

Most of the replies here seem a bit confused as to what class is. Class, in a classic sense of the term, isn't characterized by a person’s wealth so much as their relation to the means of production. The working-class consists of those who sell their labor to the capitalist class; those who purchase this labor and own the means of production (factories, etc.) The petty-bourgeois, as someone mentioned, are small business owners. The middle-class can also be considered the managerial class, in other words, the middle-class is the group of salaried or wage-labors who don't own the means of production, but are paid a higher wage than the working-class to manage how factories etc. operate.