Unemployed in America

[Joanne98]

The unemployment figures were so bad Friday—half a million U.S. jobs lost in one month—some in the corporate media actually sounded a bit alarmed. Still, the overriding impulse of mainstream journalists is to look on the bright side.

Like NPR, for instance, which offers a handy chart showing how unemployment was worse in the early 1980s than it is now. The chart’s cutsy title: “In Case It Makes You Feel Better,” begs an answer, such as: You gotta be kidding?

Such “things could always be worse” journalism—like yeah, a plague of locusts could be in my backyard—is pretty tiresome, but imagine how it must sound to those who really are suffering from job loss?


Like Marcia in Ohio, who told the National Employment Law Project (NELP) her story:

My husband was laid off right after he had a heart attack last year. He was working for a company for five years and then all of a sudden he is permanently laid off because they aren’t selling products so his shift has got to go. He was the major bread winner in the family….He is 55 years old…and having pre-existing conditions make it impossible for us to get any insurance. The world has become selfish and cruel….His extended unemployment benefits will run short soon-run out-and then what are we to do? Starve or die I suppose.

Starve or die. But maybe if Marcia just looked at that NPR chart, she might feel better.

NELP, this week, released findings from its survey in a report: Unemployed In America. The results depict how hopeless jobless workers have become, with between 70 percent and 76 percent of those unemployed saying they have low confidence of finding a job in the next four months. The survey also shows jobless workers are willing to take just about any job, with 63 percent saying they would accept a job that pays less than the previous job and 62 percent saying they’d take one that doesn’t provide health insurance.

But there are no jobs out there. The statement by Gwendolyn in Maryland reflects what many jobless workers are saying:

I have been unemployed since November of 2007. I have literally applied for over 250 jobs, yet I still have not been able to be interviewed yet to get a full-time position. As a result of my financial woes and constant struggle to take care of three sons and make the rent, I now find myself facing the possibility of being homeless. Unfortunately, I have not been in a position to make my rent by the 5th of the month (at the latest) since being unemployed. As a result of this, I have been advised by the management company that they will not be renewing my lease. To add to my woes, my car was repossessed last night and my extension of unemployment benefits is due to end as of next month….

Continued>>>
http://blog.aflcio.org/2008/12/12/unemployed-in-america/#more-8310

[izquierdista]

1. All avenues closed off

At least when real estate was still bubbling, you could find work rehabbing properties, or if you had some capital, flipping one. But the cheap labor conservatives have been very efficient in making sure that all American labor was priced out of business and replaced by dollar-a-day foreign labor.

The only real solution is to be a survivalist, like the people afraid of the Y2K bug. Find a place to build your own shelter, where you can hunt and gather your own food, and give up the niceties of the civilized world. For that is what the Repubs have done, destroy civilization with their free market idolatry.

[barb162]

75. RNs and MDs and other healthcare workers are still needed.

That's about it.

[dixiegrrrrl]

2. even employed people are facing loss.

I know a couple living in San Francisco, aged 50+ a bit, both working, maybe grossing 60K total a year.
Guessing on the high side here. Can't imagine the deductions for insurance, etc. which are high in that area.
Very very nice sweet people. High school grads, nothing more.

Think of her as a barely smarter Edith, him as Archie Bunker, with hypochondria.
They both are impulse buyers of most of the junk sold on HSN. QVC might be a bit upscale for them.
She goes to Big Lots 4-5 times a week.
They live in a mobile home, double wide. Every closet and cranny plus 3 huge storage sheds is stuffed with the "cute" stuff they buy. 10 sets of dishes, 7 6 foot plastic christmas trees, each fully decorated in one room every Christmas.
Deeply deeply in debt.
Zero savings.
Owe on the Mobile home, PLUS...get this...they have to pay lot rent of 900.00 a month.
Said lot extends about 20 feet all around the trailer.
Every year the lot payment goes up 50.00 a month.
If you move into that mobile home park right now, your lot payment for a 2 bedroom 2 bath double wide would be 1200.00 a month. Plus the 1200.00 plus to buy the mobile home.
If either of them loses their job, they will lose their mobile home.
In a few years, they will not be able to afford the lot rent anyhow. The rent alone will exceed their monthly pay.
and this is supposed to be a low income mobile home park.
And is one of the most inexpensive places to live in the area.

[eridani]

6. Jeebus. Didn't know that San Fran had any of those left

Surprised they didn't get gentrified yet.

[cabluedem]

73. I dont know how people can afford the 8.75 % sales tax in SF either. Most areas in CA are 7.25 %....

to 7.75% tops. Property taxes are very high there too compared to other parts of CA. Hell of a nice place to visit though.

[leftofthedial]

3. last full-time job, laid off in 2005

over 1200 resumes sent out...TWO interviews. No jobs.

I've been working three, four, sometimes five part-time temp crappy jobs and still not able to consistently pay my monthly bills (which are very modest).

THIS IS, AND ALWAYS HAS BEEN, CLASS WAR, PURE AND SIMPLE.

[sarcasmo]

4. I can relate to the 250 jobs applied for. I am keeping my fingers crossed for part time work with

Census, scored a 25 out of 28, but no phone call.

[TahitiNut]

71. Wait until the tally of jobs applied for reaches 1,800 to 2,000. Believe me, it CAN get worse.

As I try to hammer home to others, your FIRST 'job' is to know where your NEXT job will be. Network. Explore. Don't burn bridges. Keep building a resume. And NEVER stop looking... not for a second.

[notesdev]

5. What is it you guys are trying to do?

I went job seeking last month... two interviews, got two jobs - one short-term and one long-term. Took all of three weeks.

[sarcasmo]

7. You are not in Michigan are you?

[fasttense]

8. Where do you live? What field are you in?

We are in East TN and there is literally Nothing out there. We can't even get crappy low paying jobs because they say we are overqualified.

Wherever you live, whatever your field, I'm moving or switching to.

[Citizen Number 9]

9. If you are out of work

I wouldn't think of any job as 'crappy'.

You know what they say...

[shrike]

10. Sure you're on the right board?

[Citizen Number 9]

11. Without question

Facts transcend politics.

:)

[shrike]

12. I've worked some mighty crappy jobs

And never hesitated to call them what they were.

Then again, facts transcend politics, right?

[Citizen Number 9]

14. That says a lot about you personally.

I've been happy for every job I've ever had.

Otherwise, why would I have taken them?

[shrike]

16. Uh, to eat? Pay the rent? Because there was nothing else?

Nice that you've had such a charmed life.

I'm pretty well off in my life now, other than the fact that I sometimes have unseen people judge my character.

But my early experiences, working minimum wage jobs when the economy was bad, taught me something very important -- humility.

You should try it sometimes. Oh -- that's right! People with charmed lives never have to be humble.

[Citizen Number 9]

18. Humility?

I'm not sure you actually learned it, yet.

You're the one calling jobs "crappy".

There's nothing 'charmed' about my life. You're just imagining that all my jobs have been good by whatever standard you have. That's the "grass is greener..." thing.

I'm the one who's been happy for every one I've had. It's an attitude difference. Can you understand that?

[shrike]

25. I can understand you've drunk the Koolaid

Really, dude, you're on the wrong board.

[Citizen Number 9]

27. I've supported the Democratic Party my entire life

From the Board Description: "We welcome Democrats of all stripes..."

Maybe you should re-evaluate what you are about. I've seen lots of excuses from you. So far, you've offered your service, your housing (which you own), your area, the economy, and the concept that you are above "crappy" jobs.

Now, you are whining about my posts on this board.

I believe in solutions that don't blame someone or something else.

[shrike]

33. Think you have me mixed up with someone else

I've never been in the military, I'm not looking for a job, and I'm going to ride out this recession just fine.

What I object to is what seems to be a lack of compassion on the part of many Duers, not just yourself, and a seeming inability to recognize that so much of what is happening right now is either out of our control or seemingly spinning out of our control.

[sarcasmo]

29. He has been ignored by so many I don't know why he continues to post here.

[Citizen Number 9]

30. I've noticed that you don't have too much depth to your posting

when the going gets tough you go right to the personal attacks.

That is my first indication that's how you approach a lot of things.

Feel free to ignore me, if you want. Based on your engagement so far, that's no big loss.

[GSPowner]

31. Yea...this is not the place

for optimism or uplifting and its always the companies fault. Complaining and tearing people apart seem to be the main idea. I have come a long way...I used to be a company person but I have come a long way and have seen how unfair companies can be but jeeze people. I am a recruiter and I get a great view of the market, the people and what they seem to think companies or people owe them. It is sickening! I recruit for direct hire and contract positions and what people tell me they deserve or what they should be paid is absurd.

As an example a contractor I employed raised Holy Heck when property was damaged on the company's property. She said that the company was liable and then when the company told her they were not responsible for her can she called me he recruiter saying I/my company should pay the repair bill.

She then complained that she deserved a raise after being counseled for causing several problems in the department and her overall terrible attitude. Her reasoning was that she had been there a year so she was OWED a raise and had to deal with this crappy job. She did not get it. People take a contract and are fully aware of what we provide as a company regarding benefits etc...but when they get them they turn around and say it isn't enough...but it was good enough when they were offered the job but for some reason 60 days later the insurance isnt good enough or now they are worth more money. She is now flagged in our system that she is a TERRIBLE employee and any reference will be NEGATIVE and we will never employ her nor will any of out other divisions. This is one of about a dozen incidents with people thinking they are OWED something for nothing. She got paid a decent wage for honestly a less than adequate performace. I fired her for poor attitude, her complaining that the job was beneath her and she was simly a hatefilled person, her performace was probably the 3 in the list of reasons. We might have kept her for the next project had she not be so thankless, needy and arrogant thinking she was OWED more. She was not worth dealing with and it got to such a point that I fired her two days before Thanks Giving. I point this out to show how much she had pushed everone and we WERE DONE with her. She was thankless, arrogant, needy, burdensome and a marginal performer YET she claimed that she was OWED MORE...more money, better benefits etc...

Get REAL people. YOU ARE OWED NOTHING from anyone.. The Koolaid you are drinking from seems to infect you with the idea that somebody owes you something. From a earnings perspective YOU ARE NOT WORTH what you think you are worth. You are worth what the job/market pays...if you don't like the pay or any part of the compensation package or the job itself then don't take it or quit. But don't go runninng down everyone else for decisions you make. In the past few months I have never seen or heard so many complainers and this thread has pointed out a few more.

[shrike]

34. Contractor status probably has a lot to do with it

If your company is hiring contractors, it may account for their grumpy mood. Many people I know, skilled, qualified people, can no longer get full-time jobs; everything's on contract. Which (usually) means no benefits, no security, no pension. Once the contract's over they have to start all over again, though sometimes contracts are renewed. It's not an easy way to live your life; many people feel backed into a corner and taken advantage of. Some are lucky enough to be able to retire. Others are not.

More than likely they're taking they're taking their frustrations out on you. It's unfair, I know, but as you point out life is not fair. Also, I've heard a lot of people say it doesn't pay to work hard anymore. It gets you nowhere; doesn't get you a raise or a permanent job, and that getting ahead in life depends on politics. After reading THE SMARTEST GUYS IN THE ROOM, the story of the Enron collapse, I'm beginning to agree with them.

[Citizen Number 9]

35. "Once the contract's over they have to start all over again..."

Well, I guess that gives them a feeling for how business is. Just throwing open you doors doesn't guarantee the customers will walk in. And, every day is like that.

"doesn't get you a raise"
"doesn't get you a ... permanent job"

Who do you feel OWES you this? Exactly who is it that owes you security? Who?

Every complainer here wants to blame the unfair generalities, but no one has been able to state why they are so special.

[shrike]

39. I'm not a contract employee myself

I was just trying to point out how people may feel, why you are getting this reaction from people. There are two sides to everything.

btw, there did used to be an unwritten contract between employee and employer; sort of a "you work hard for me, I'll take care of you," attitude. Do a little research, take a look at history and you'll find out it's true. Post World War II era. That changed, though; it became every man for himself. Darwinian. The workplace became a lot meaner. The people you say have an owe-me attitude are probably trying to look out for themselves, albeit in a misguided way.

Also, you have to understand, a "too bad if a contract ends, too bad if you can't get a permanent job, that's the way it goes" doesn't make for a real happy work force. Or workplace. If people feel the company is out to get what it can, they try to do the same. And if companies feel their workers are only out for what they can get, they're going to act accordingly. Vicious circle, I guess.

[fasttense]

20. Citizen Number 9. I remember you

You are the one who said all poor people are lazy.

You know I spent 20 years of my life in the military fighting for your right to call me lazy. I hope you use your freedom well.

[Citizen Number 9]

22. I don't know you, so I don't know if you are lazy or not.

Moreover, I did NOT say that about all poor people and I challenge you to show us that I did. I think it will be instructive for you.

As to your service, good for you. I'm always pleased to find people with a Democratic bent who have worn the uniform, although it's distressing to find that you count yourself among the "poor" after a career in the armed forces of the US.

[Greyhound]

13. Well then I'm sure all those other people are just whining losers that

brought all this on themselves.

You are what's wrong with America.

[Citizen Number 9]

15. When I look around at the job opportunities

I see, I can't understand how someone could reasonably be so long without a job.

But then, I realize that some areas of the country are worse off than others.

But then, I wonder why one wouldn't move to another area to get a job.

But then I realize that maybe there is something that is preventing them from moving.

But then, I wonder why they don't go and fix that something.

And if they don't want to do that, then I just wonder why they are whining, except that I know that's what people do. They like to complain and they have a right to do that.

That's the basics of what goes through my mind.

Care to fill me in on anything?

[shrike]

17. You ever tried to pack up and move to a new part of the country

Naw, forget it -- you've led a charmed life.

[Citizen Number 9]

19. Well, I guess you have a choice...

You can sit around and be unemployed for years, apparently or you can get up and move to go get work somewhere.

And yes, I have moved (all over the country) for jobs and whatnot.

[shrike]

24. As have I

Which is why I know enough not to blithely tell someone to simply pack up and move; I know what it involves.

[fasttense]

21. How are we going to sell our house?

We could just absorb an $80,000 loss - not. No one rents in this very rural area, so that's out of the question.

But of course after spending 20 years in the military, I'm just whining.

[Citizen Number 9]

23. That's a question a lot of people are asking right now.

You may have spent 20 years in the service, but that doesn't mean that you aren't whining. Whining is whining.

Did you just retire?

[shrike]

26. btw, since facts trump politics, here're some facts for you

The Bureau of Labor Statistics has released the October Job Openings and Labor Turnover Survey (JOLTS) data, which indicates that there were only 3.1 million job openings in the economy, down nearly 25% from the start of the recession in December 2007.

http://www.epi.org/content.cfm/webfeatures_snapshots_20081210

While that's bad, what makes matters worse is that this rapid decline in job openings has been accompanied by a sharp increase in unemployment. In October 2008 the number of job seekers topped 10 million, more than three times the number of jobs available. The acceleration has been startling: the number of job seekers per opening has skyrocketed from 1.9 at the beginning of this recession to 3.3 less than a year later in October 2008. The rapid increase in this ratio clearly indicates the weakness of the current labor market and the difficulty that workers are having finding jobs. Unfortunately, this ratio will likely continue to worsen for the forseeable future, given that in November unemployment increased by another 250,000 jobs.


That enough facts for you? Christ, I'm rich compared to most people I know; I don't have to worry about getting another job and the unemployment situation in this country concerns the hell out of me.

[Citizen Number 9]

28. Great facts, unfortunately

I have argued against exactly ZERO of them.

What are you thinking by posting them "for me"?

[shrike]

32. Well, logically, how is one supposed to "easily" find a job

when there are three applicants for every available job? And frankly, what you call whining might just be an expression of rage and frustration, and a feeling of helplessness.

I'd actually be an advocate myself for moving elsewhere in the country to find work -- I've done it myself, having moved to areas where I didn't know a soul -- though after reading what I posted earlier I'm not sure that'd be a wise idea anymore, even in these desperate times. I might even post a thread about this in GD: the dos and donts of relocating to find work, and what to expect when you get there. People contemplating such a move might benefit from a little advice from DUers who've been there and done that.

You'd even be welcome to post on the thread, since you say you've moved.

[marketcrazy1]

36. how does some one who

has been unemployed for a length of time, say six months, or even two or three, AFFORD to move to another part of the country?? even if they were to sell everything they cant pack into the car? it takes MONEY to move! it takes MONEY to get to where ever! and once you get there how do you live? with little or no money for rent, security deposits, basic furnishings, FOOD!! you guys make it sound simple, just pack up and go, throw the kids and the wife in the car and drive!! how exactly??? live off credit cards? ( dont have any ) use savings? ( spent most of that ) borrow from friends/family ( they are broke too ) the minute you leave the state, no more un employment comp. ( spending savings to augment this very low income, if you are "lucky enough" to even have that! ) I only WISH it was as simple as some here make it sound.

[Citizen Number 9]

38. No one tried to make it sound simple

but, at some point, it is easier to move than to sit somewhere that you feel has no opportunity at all.

[Vanje]

54. Leave your family. Hop a freight. Knock over a liquor store.

Its EASY!

[Citizen Number 9]

63. It's fairly common for people to blame bad acting

on anything and everything else.

"Leave your family?" "Knock off a liquor store?"

Could you support my points any better?

[Vanje]

64. New research shows alzheimers sufferers dont understand sarcasm

Better get yourself checked.

[Citizen Number 9]

67. So, your response to my post

was to be sarcastic?

Is your implication that I have Alzheimer's Disease sarcastic, too?

[shrike]

41. It is damn, damn hard to do

If anyone tells you it is, tell 'em they're full of shit. And tell 'em I said so. I've done it.

I really don't recommend doing it unless you have no other options. I also don't recommend bringing kids -- whole other post. It takes one hell of a lot of planning. And if you have no savings, no one to borrow from, and nothing of value to sell, then don't do it.

[Citizen Number 9]

45. Um, everyone is not "you".

Maybe that is one of the problems here.

The fact is that people do it all the time. Some succeed, some don't.

There is no doubt that you're better off if you have been a good planner from the start, though.

[shrike]

46. You don't read my posts, do you?

Ah, well.

[Citizen Number 9]

51. I do read them.

But they seem to cover a lot of ground and not necessarily what the post before was trying to make clear.

Some Internet posters would nail you to the door on each and every point, but I will generally go with the flow.

[shrike]

57. Nail me to the door, huh?

Look in the mirror, dude.

[Citizen Number 9]

60. Now you're getting comical.

In nearly every post you've made here you've been unable to stay on topic, usually by wishing me away or changing the subject.

I offered a simple plan to deal with long-term unemployment that involved more than sitting around, "hoping" a piece of paper sitting on someone's desk would get you a job.

So far, all I've seen from you is ridicule and naysaying.

Show me something else.

[shrike]

69. Why are you offering me a simple plan when I don't need one?

I've told you at least twice I'm not looking for a job. Get your posters straight.

Mods, can you do something about this guy?

[Citizen Number 9]

70. In English, "you" is both singular and plural

Did you notice that the entire thread was about unemployment? That might be why I am posting about looking for a job.

[Vanje]

55. Most people dont plan to losae their job....

lose their medical insurance ,
Get a chronic illness.

But its very very common.

[Vanje]

53. C'mon! You've seen it done hundreds of times on TV

Stop whining! Rob a bank!

[Citizen Number 9]

37. Three applicants, one job

That leaves two unemployed. One third of the problem is solved.

Whining is generally just an unflattering term for expressing rage and frustration with maybe a small amount of hoping for special assistance thrown in.

You know....."squeaky wheel"...?

Now, don't get angry with me for anything I might recommend. It's not personal - I don't presume to know you. I can only speak what I see as the truth, but it's not without some experience.

If you're going to move, I'd recommend first moving somewhere you know people. That may not be the "best" opportunity, but the social network has some value.

I don't know what your strengths are, but, personally, if I had to start over, I'd go directly to McDonalds and learn the fast food business from the ground up.

They pay well and have bennies. There are practically no requirements.

[shrike]

40. You should pay closer attention to the information in my posts

I'm not saying I'M going to move and start over. I don't have to, I'm set in life. However, I have done it twice in the past, quite successfully. Didn't work at McDonald's, either.

[Citizen Number 9]

44. Excellent, however...

you didn't put any of that in any of the posts I have responded to.

[shrike]

47. Yes, I did

I also never told you I was in the service or was job-hunting.

[HughBeaumont]

42. "Learn the fast food business from the ground up"???

Isn't that something along the lines of the N Greg Mankiw School of Thought, where in 2004 he so callously likened a McDonald's job as "manufacturing"?

Are you being serious or you just really not listening to your own B.S.? In what universe could a managerial job at Mickey D's support a family?

Are you implying that America has to collectively improve it's economic lot in life by working in the fast food/other service sectors?

How is this honestly anything more than an insulting joke of a suggestion?

[Citizen Number 9]

43. Dude. I told you what I'd do if I had to start over

again, with a minimum amount of education and resources.

Truth is, I have worked very hard to be well educated and I have found that makes for many more opportunities. That and hard work.

That isn't the only idea I can think of, but I get the distinct feeling you won't like any of them.

I don't know who Mankiw is, and I really don't care. He may have some theory or other, but I'm not too big on adopting other people's theories. In particular, if, as you say this depends on Mickey D's being "manufacturing", then I'm even less interested.

I have lots of stories supported by real life examples, but I don't think you will like any of them, either.

In short, what I am saying is that America needs to adapt to changing conditions as opposed to developing one kind of "expectation" or another. This may be the Information Age, but no one has suspended the basic harsh rules that apply to life on planet Earth. Sorry to be so blunt.

[shrike]

48. This guy is turning into a waste of time

Maybe if we all ignore him we'll go away.

[Citizen Number 9]

50. What part didn't you like?

The part about life being real, or not being able to ignore the hard facts?

[shrike]

58. Hard facts, huh?

It's amazing you've been here this long without being tombstoned.

[Citizen Number 9]

61. See Post #60.

[Vanje]

56. In "starting over",

living on a friend's couch , working at McDonalds, we can assume that our job seeker will be dumping his family.
I dont see any way his family can be supported in his new "career."

[Vanje]

52. Phil Gramm?

Is that you?

[shrike]

59. Good one

Finally, an explanation for this guy.

[Citizen Number 9]

62. See Post #61

[Vanje]

65. See post #66

Its every bit as useful as post #61

[Art_from_Ark]

76. Yup, just load up the truck and move to Beverly

You'll find lots of jobs listed in the Help Wanted ads in your destination city-- only thing is, except for the really technical stuff, most of them aren't REAL jobs that you can start right away. A lot of employers in large cities just want a stack of applications for a job that MIGHT become available at some time in the future. But you still have to go in person to fill out that old application. And by the time the job does become available, they've probably shitcanned your application anyway, because it's probably more than 3 months old. And if you don't have any relatives in the area, you've got to have a place to stay (permanent address) and a phone number-- a landline, preferably, because if all you've got is a cell phone, that means you don't have roots. And no groveling about how you need the work when you finally get to go in for that dishwashing job interview-- it will make your potential employer think that you just want that job as a stepping stone to a better job.

[Nay]

49. You're in VA, notesdev, as I am. The job market here has certainly

tightened up, but there are still jobs. Esp where you are, in Northern VA. Other areas of the country aren't doing well. A relative in FL is still looking for work, and he's a handy skilled fellow. Go anywhere in Ohio, W Va, Michigan, and out west and you'll see nothing but tumbleweeds. I have been in all those places in the last 3 years and have been appalled at the degradation of life in the small towns especially.

Those who still have a bit of money and who could consider moving, can't sell their houses in order to move. Others have a family support system where they are (grandparents babysitting, etc) which would dissolve if they moved. Once you are in a financial bind, you can't really move -- it's like a straitjacket. Folks who are single, or married ppl with no kids, can move much more easily to places that have jobs, but even they can get stranded and get in trouble.

[TahitiNut]

72. I just love the condescension of 30-something lotus-eaters.

:eyes:

[Vanje]

66. See post #65

[Citizen Number 9]

68. Congratulations. the actual content in your posts

has, in fact, dropped to zero.

Feel free to rejoin the conversation.

Without the personal attacks and games.

[Name removed]

74. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.