Are UAW workers paid $70 per hour as Republicans say? BULLSHSIT it's more like $29 -

[JohnWxy]

As repiorted on a Detroit TV station UAW, Non-UAW Pay Scales

The $70 dollar figure INCLUDES LEGACY COSTS that is, Health care costs for retired workers. This is an indirect cost should not be included when you are comparinig to transplant workers hourly pay of about $30 (this does not include possible bonuses).

HEre's the summary of the actual figures(rounded):
...................................UAW ...........Transplants

Hourly pay ....................$29.00 ...........$26.00 (with bonuses: $30)
vacation, overtime costs
and the jobs bank ............14.00...............9.00
health care FICA,
insurance and
workerman's comp ........... 12.00 .............11.00

legacy costs: health care,
.... retirees ..................... 16.00 ............. 3.00
totals ........................... $71.00............$49.00

legacy costs delta:......... -$15.00

minus legacy costs delta: . $58.00............$49.00

benefits delta:..................-$5.00

less benefits delta:............$52.00 ...........$49.00 (with bonuses $51.00)


Now if you consider the cost of living in states where the domestics are located (e.g. Michigan, Illois, Indiana, Ohio) is considerably higher than Alabama, Tenn or South Carolina then the 'disparity' isn't as great as it has been stated (using $70). Again, the Republicans are not concerned with facts or responsible governance. They just keep shouting the $70 (some used $76) without obviously checking on the facts.

We have to keep reminding ourselves that Republicans are not concerned with facts and will assert ANYTHING as if it were the sacred truth as long as it serves their immediate purpose.


At any rate this shows the $70 figure is NOT the correct figure to be comparing to an actual hourly wage - they are including other costs considered by accountants to be indirect costs and NOT generally referred to as "hourly wages" or "pay per hour". For management purposes these cost may be lumped together and referred to as "factory costs" or "manufacturing costs" but it's definitely not kosher to include legacy costs in an Hourly wage figure.

I guess the Republicans would like the domestic auto makers to just cut-off retired workers health insurance even though that is a contractual obligation. This is the kind of predatory capitalism that actually, in the long run is just not practical and does not work. No matter how appealiing it is to Republicans who like to ignore the human costs of change - as long as it is not them taking the hit.

[lligrd]

1. What Do Republicans Want Retirees To Do?

They don't like Social Security. They don't like pensions. They don't want to pay for health care. Even a retiree who did manage to save a bundle could lose it all with a serious illness. What do they suggest we do with all the people who are unable to save for retirement? Let them die in the streets? Actually, I am quite sure they would make that illegal.

[DesertFlower]

2. unfortunately, yes.

[patrice]

5. I've been meaning to look into growth data in the Hospice Industry.

Don't quite know how to do that, but it would be interesting to track it on an ongoing basis, what with Boomers getting old now and POORER.

Something many people don't know much about is the completely legal range of uses of morphine as a palliative in the nation's medical institutions and other care facilities. That and un-spoken understandings of same.

[PassingFair]

9. Carousel.

[sandnsea]

3. Starting salary is $14

And Arkansas began the tradition of busting northern union factory jobs when companies like Remington and Levi and Alcoa moved there in the 80s. By the time I applied for a job at Remington, in 1987, their salary had gone from a good union wage of $12 hr average in Michigan, to minimum wage of $4.

That's what happens when you bust unions.

[Turbineguy]

4. Well you can prove anything with statistics

like the real amount of money a Senator or Representative make.

Be sure to add in the courtesy upgrades from airlines and such.

[Joanne98]

6. Here.. Factcheck.org is on our side...

http://www.factcheck.org/askfactcheck/do_auto_workers_really_make_more_than.html

[INdemo]

7. Foreign auto employees receive a quarterly bonus or

profit sharing...so if this is factored in the wages would be a close comparison to the WAW workers.Skilled trade employees earn about the same as skilled trade UAW employees (without considering the bonuses.)
If one would compare the state subsidies these foreign car makers got then they have a big advantage...This is just a guess but I would say that foreign car makers have a larger advertising budget which has given them a product promotion advantage...
Lets face it Republicans never use real facts..They lie,then repeat that lie over and over and eventually a large majority of the public believe them..This has always been the Republican way...

There are major companies that have cut their retirement packages for retirees with the younger workers being the ones that approve those contracts as they are renewed.Retirees I know from a automotive supplier have lost as much as 70% of their original retirement amount over the span of 10 years...Its just not fair...

[Jim__]

8. A couple of questions on your numbers.

In the UAW column, when you add in legacy costs, you add in $16, but when you subtract out legacy costs delta you only subtract out $15. I'm not sure why legacy cost delta is different from legacy cost.

Also, on the non-UAW side, when you add in bonuses it looks like $4, but then in the less benefits delta line, you only add in $2 for bonuses. I don't follow that.

Heritage has a new report out that denies the costs include retiree benefits. However, they don't do an hourly cost break-down like you do. I'd really love to be able to claim Heritage is full of shit. They apparently accept the manufacturers numbers, and don't know the breakdown. If your breakdown is accurate, then there is a clear discrepancy between detailed hourly costs and what the manufacturers claim. I wonder if there is a detailed breakdown on the manufacturers claim. My bet is they are over-stating their costs and not backing it up with details.

[JohnWxy]

10. although I show "Legacy cost delta" at $15, I used $13 in arriving at subtotal of $58 after

taking out "legacy cost delta". I can't type worth shit, sorry about the wrong number appearing for "Legacy cost delta". which is the difference between GM legacy costs and Transplants Legacy costs (they have virtually no retirees, as of yet) or $16 - 3 = $13.

Also, note I stated above summary table that the numbers are rounded (I used the numbers presented on the tv report (and at link) which are I'm sure rounded).

Regarding the addition of bonuses at the bottom. I was wrong. I should have added $4. NO excuse for that. So the final number for the transplants should be: $53 = (49+4). (Sometimes simple arithmetic throws me for a loop! I put this to using excel damn spreadsheets too much for too many years! -- at least, that's my excuse.)

regarding HEritage Foundation report their own text contradicts their headline:

"UAW workers are highly paid, but not all this compensation comes as cash wages. Breaking the $73.26 figure down, General Motors reports that it pays base wages of roughly $30 an hour. At the end of December 2006, the average vehicle assembler at GM earned $28.02 an hour;"
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


according to the agreement of 2007 between the Union and GM new hires will be getting about $14/hr.


Sorry for my slow response. sometimes I don't get back right away to PC and don't know I have responses.

[Jim__]

11. Thanks.

Nothing to be sorry about. It's interesting that if you add in the $4 bonuses, the non-union costs are higher than the union costs.