One thing I've noticed about RWers and the insult to the American Workers

[zbdent]

these days, there are a few, not a whole lot (yet), callers who argue against the loan (they call "bailout") to the auto industry with an interesting argument ...

They diss the American workers.

How?

"I will not buy an inferior product."

Remember, they love to give the impression that it's the union workers who are bringing down the domestic auto industry ... and all the ills of the auto industry are because of "lazy union workers" ...

Never mind the fact that a lot of the work is automated on the assembly line, the design is not being down by union engineers ... no, it's the lowly union worker who has to deal with imported parts that he has to put in or get in trouble on his job.

[angryfirelord]

1. Well, to he honest here

They do make crappy cars, but you're right, it's not the fault of the assembly worker. It's the fault of the idiot(s) who keep designing those cars and the fault of the CEO to address them. In fact, they deliberately design those cars to have some sort of a minor failure. Why? Because it's a market for the mechanics and the part suppliers if you have to keep taking your car to the shop. That's why my parents gave up on them and stuck with Toyota.

We do have to keep these people in work because if one of them goes belly up, it puts all of the part suppliers out of business. If we do give them bailout money, one of the first things that has to be done is to restructure the company. That includes not only getting them to produce gas efficient cars, but making quality cars as well. Otherwise, they're doomed to fail.

[DainBramaged]

2. "They do make crappy cars"

You just lost most of us here with that one ignorant statement. You have no clue what you are talking about, and fit the category described in the OP. Another agitator who thinks they know whats best for the Unions and it's members.


You haven't bought a Domestic in decades, or are too young to drive, it's usually the first, but you and your ilk disgust me.

[angryfirelord]

5. I wasn't blaming the Unions

I never placed the blame on the union worker, but on those who are higher up. However, the big 3's reputation got smashed with the idiot designs like the Ford Pinto. Yes, they certainly have improved on some models this decade, but other models (especially ones from Chrysler) still have major problems. Go look at Consumer Reports if you don't believe me.

[DainBramaged]

6. Pinto 1973, what year is it? 2008? Typical Foreign apologist meme, blame the Pinto

you should learn to read more that Consumers Reports, and maybe get your license.

[angryfirelord]

7. Way to make assumptions

Yes, I have my license and you should also learn to think beyond what you want to hear. The big 3 are failing because they made bad business decisions, simple as that. Also, the lack of any trade barriers in this country allows foreign car makers to price their cars cheaper without having to take shortcuts. Combine that with the union fat cats who don't want to make any type of compensation or big adjustments to keep the company alive and you have...well, failure. You can't be paying out costs of over $70 a worker while your competitors can undercut you like that. Not in Bush's free trade world anyway.

That's why the company needs to be reorganized or even nationalized. Toyota was funded heavily by the Japanese government (for over a good 20 some years) and they still do today. The Prius's battery technology was completely subsided and helped in pushing out that technology quicker whereas Ford and GM were still pushing their monster trucks. If we can do the same to them and help the big 3 roll out hydrogen and/or electric cars, then they can make a significant dent in the foreign markets. Otherwise, if we just throw money at the problem and pretend the UAW can solve everything, then you're not going to be them around for very long.

[DainBramaged]

8. I see you are a U nion supporter.

:sarcasm:

[DainBramaged]

9. Oh and BTW, that $70 Republican meme has been debunked

but you can keep believing us fat cat UAW boyz are being paid that. And what pray tell do you earn an hour????

[angryfirelord]

10. It's not in terms of wage

but in terms of the cost total from the company. You're right, UAW workers only make in the uppers teens, but once you factor in vacation, holiday pay, shift differentials, education benefits, training, sick time, health benefits and a pension, it comes out quite a bit higher. Maybe not $70 an hour, but it's certainly higher than what the UAW claims.

That's also why I'm against having a completely free enterprise in the marketplace. Globalization only seeks to drive down wages, not increase them. Meanwhile, the big 3's CEOs rake in well over $10 million plus benefits & bonuses and continue to ask for more money. But until those 2 major issues are addressed, the UAW needs to have a bit of wiggle room if the company is going to survive.

[DainBramaged]

11. You can find the REAL truth just by using Google, I will not give your

argument any credibility, ZERO. And JUST because 400,000+ workers have lived long enough to retire as UAW autoworkers, doesn't mean they should be tossed out on the street. Toyota has 2000, Honda about 220. The costs are NOT close. The UAW posts FACT, period. And the UAW carries the medical benefits since 2007. I am so tired of you Johnny come lately experts trying to tell me how my Union works.


You are skating on thin ice with your repeated Republican memes here. There are too many Union members here to crush your talking points.

[angryfirelord]

12. So we're not to question anything?

The UAW says it and we're supposed to believe everything they say? If you have other sources of information that confirm the UAW's statement, then I'll gladly eat what I said. Otherwise, sticking to partisan sides for getting information isn't going to accomplish anything.

[BonnieJW]

13. Union workers don't make $70 an hour.

And by 2010, they will make the same as foreign car workers WITHOUT the subsidies.

[madrchsod]

3. oh ya.....

ford 500-safest sedan sold in the usa. chevy malibu-car of the year.ford 500 also a car of the year. gm has the "green vehicle of the year. ford has reduced warranty work buy 44% in the last few years.gm product line has the best mpg than any auto manufacture in the united state

over all quality both chevy and ford beat the honda accord and the toyota camry. honda and toyota are built by non union labor...ford and gm are built by union labor.

there`s no difference between sub assemblies that go into ford, gm, toyota,etc. they are made in the same plants by the same people on the same line. the american workers have pride in what they do not who they do it for.

there is no "built in minor defects". my daughters line shipped over a million parts to chrysler with zero defects.
the plant she works at has the highest iso standards and those standards include the design and engineering departments...



one of those parts in that toyota could have been made my daughter or me...and those same parts go into --gm,ford,and most german auto manufactures.

[clarence swinney]

4. CRAPPY CARS

RIDE IN BACK SEAT OF HONDA-KIA-ACURA
TRY TALKING OR LISTENING TO RADIO
ROAD NOISE

OVER YEARS TO PIGEON FORCE ONCE MONTH-
300 EACH WAY

1999-BUICK LESABRE--31MPG GOING--35 MPG RETURNING
-NO MAJOR REPAIRS IN 124,00 MILES

1992 OLDS 98--31MPG EACH WAY
NO MAJOR REPAIRS IN 203,000 MILES

1987 BUICK PARK AVENUE
245,000 MILES
28 MPG
NO REPAIRS UNTIL 176,00 AND TIMING CHAIN

SERVICE EACH 3,000 MILES

DRIVE AT 60MPH ON CRUISE CONTROL IS KEY

LAST 100 MILE ON RETURN TRIP USUALLY DRIVE 100 MILES AND HIT BRAKES ONCE.

COMFORT--SAFETY--RELIABILITY

HAVE OWNED HONDA AND FIAT

GIVE ME GOOD OLD USA CARS.

[AnneD]

14. There was a period of time in the late 70's.....

when Detroit made crappy cars-but that has been years ago. Can't beat them for back seat or long distance comfort. My ford Escort and Taurus were members of the family and I trusted them with my child. She wanted the Blue Tarsus to be her first car (it was called Bluford). I have a Honda now but I really want a high mileage Detroit car. They are just more comfortable.