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What's the difference between entitlements and

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whyverne Donating Member (734 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-10-09 10:53 AM
Original message
What's the difference between entitlements and
stimulus packages anyway? Very little, I think. We're all capitalists, yet I don't know if we understand money at all. Gertrude Stein put it most succinctly, "Money is always there but the pockets change." That doesn't count the "fake" money that bubbles and Ponzi schemes create, of course. And if you "misplace" a few billion dollars in Iraq, yeah that's pretty well gone.

We all act like money is gasoline, use it and it's gone. It's not gone, it's still there. And just about every time it changes hands, the government gets a little bit back. Eventually they get it all back. Of course this has it's limits, if they put out more than they're going to get back in a reasonable amount of time.

I think comparing the government's use of money with an individual's use of money is silly. We don't constantly get a percentage back of what we spend. We have to work for more money, the government just has to wait for it.

Yes, something has to be done about the entitlements. That is a pyramid scheme based on constant large growth. Means tested is the obvious first step. Sending Bill Gates a Social Security check is ridiculous. "But that's not fair!" Is it fair that I never got a check from my automobile insurance, cause I never wrecked? It's just the way it is.

Old people having money to spend is good for the economy. Or let's try to create a population of perfect people who all save enough money for retirement on their own. Yeah, that's going to happen.



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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-10-09 11:02 AM
Response to Original message
1. My recent post on Legal Entitlements
There's a huge difference.

http://www.obama-mamas.com/blog/?p=143

"The ‘Lectric Law Library defines them as “A federal program that guarantees a certain level of benefits to persons or other entities who meet requirements set by law, such as Social Security, farm price supports or unemployment benefits. It thus leaves no discretion with Congress on how much money to appropriate, and some entitlements carry permanent appropriations.”

In other words, these are programs that any person can apply for and the criteria does not change from state to state. The Federal Government protects all people, no matter where they live. The people are legally entitled to the benefits enacted by federal law. According to the Brookings Institute, “First, entitlements are available on demand to those who qualify for them.” The most important examples of entitlement programs include Social Security, Medicare, Veterans’ Administration programs, military retirement plans, unemployment compensation, and food stamps."



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patrice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-10-09 11:35 AM
Response to Original message
2. We were talking about this the other day . . .
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x3680065

It looks as though the basic objection is that means-tested people (say... ? > $400K @ year ...?) will object to paying into something that they get "nothing" out of.

I think there are two important factors: Single Payer Universal Health Care & How you define "nothing".

I've read most of the arguments against means-testing, but my instincts still favor it strongly.
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.... callchet .... Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-10-09 11:38 AM
Response to Original message
3. Money is just like matter
You can't destroy matter. Economics is like a football game. You get the ball and take it to the other end, then the other team gets it and takes it

back. The ball is like money. Everything is fine until the rich guy comes and takes the ball off the field and puts it in his safe. The USA has

other problems handicapping our play.


No matter how many nuances are used to make it more complicated than that, now matter how much people want to exercise and display their grasp of

compacted issues, it is just simply a matter of who has the money.


And who has the money now is not going to help the situation because they don't see anything wrong with the situation.
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patrice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-10-09 12:29 PM
Response to Reply #3
6. This is a useful concept. I will think about it more.
:hi:
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gristy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-10-09 11:58 AM
Response to Original message
4. "Entitlements" go to poor people who don't deserve them.
"Stimulus packages" go to rich and middle class people who have worked hard their entire lives and just need a break during these difficult times.

Do I have that about right?
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patrice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-10-09 12:23 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. What do we call that which makes us "Us"? - i.e. the Product of Our Socio-Economic Contract?
The basic relationship of those who agree to be a group produces what as a result of that agreement?

Presumably, at some point after one reaches the age of reason, individuals must decide: What/who is the group? What are its rules? What purpose/benefit is there in abiding by the group's rules? Shall I co - operate with the standards, rules and mores of the group? Why?

Assuming that responsible relationships, between individuals and the group of which they choose to be members (something we call U.S.A.), produces some - thing, am I not Entitled to certain group product(s) by virtue of my assent to what the group is/does? Maybe we need a new, more PC, name for what our group relationship produces that belongs to ALL of us by virtue of our membership in the group.

Our problem right now is that "We" don't agree upon these things, so various ones of us opt out, some at the very tip top, others at the very bottom, refuse to abide by a functional Socio-Economic Contract.
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.... callchet .... Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-10-09 01:36 PM
Response to Reply #4
7. You have it right except for
don't you think that there are some poor people who fit into the category of " people who have worked hard their entire lives and just need a break

during these difficult times".

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gristy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-10-09 01:41 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. Certainly. I was being sarcastic. I should have been more clear.
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.... callchet .... Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-10-09 01:52 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. I was carrying on
the thought. Sorry. I tend to believe that a post like that on DU would be sarcastic.
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