the formerly unthinkable -- is a military career the best option for grads?

[grasswire]

A very liberal single mother I know is pondering the formerly unthinkable. Should she rethink her strong opposition to the military for her high school senior, considering the state of the economy?

1. He comes from a family of Air Force Academy grads: grandfather and three uncles.

2. Entering the Air Force would give him insulation from economic distress all his life. He would have college education, health care, retirement, employment.

3. The military will be under the command of Democrats for at least eight years.

4. The military needs non wing-nuts, doesn't it? It needs the morality and worldview of liberals.

5. It looks as if student loans will dry up, and that the chances of even a minimum-wage job are slim.

6. He enjoys physical challenge and enjoys the comraderie of a team.

Would it be a total betrayal of liberal principles for her to drop her opposition to him serving in the Air Force?

[Deja Q]

1. It would not.

Nothing wrong with serving one's country.

And if a Democrat isn't elected or Obama re-elected in 4 years, then your "eight years" prediction will be void. :(

[mikita]

2. I think this is part of the 'plan'

IMHO it is no accident that 'serving' is looking better than the alternative. That way, we can continue to have a volunteer group to continue the elites' bidding. And you don't get as many protests when there is no draft.....

Personally, I find it REALLY sad that "military under the command of Democrats" seems like a safer bet. They are no better when it comes to serving our corporate masters.

I feel sad for those having to make these kinds of decisions.

[Citizen Number 9]

5. I feel more sad

for those who have such a limited and tight-minded view of the world.

Those corporate masters have really got you boxed.

[morningglory]

12. A post on here the other day said military service is neocon's WPA.

I agree, if we didn't have 150,000 / 10,000,000 people serving in the military, that would be 150,000 unemployed people, up to 10,000,000 (however many, I am not sure). When they deploy out of Iraq/Afghanistan/Pakistan/Gaza, that will contribute so many Timothy McVeighs on the streets with PTS syndrome, and no way to make a living. It is going to have to be dealt with by Pres Obama, along with multitudinous Dipstick* failures. McVeigh was an ace tank commander, much decorated who got RIF'ed out of the military after first Gulf war, and when he got home, McDonald's was not hiring ace tank commanders, just burger flippers, which was not attractive to him, and he flipped out in anger at the government. I am not saying all military are TMcV type people, but many will be stressed beyond ability to live on our streets. In our county the local news said yesterday (we are a military town in the south) that the food bank closed--not enough food--the day labor company closed. What are we going to do with hungry people on the streets with no jobs available? If they don't have family, the only solution is to rob a bank and get incarcerated for a bed and meals, or some such thing.

[Citizen Number 9]

3. Sounds like an educational opportunity for both grad and mother

As long as all the parties realize and understand that we are at war right now.

[grasswire]

8. just go away (eom)

[Citizen Number 9]

9. Mother doesn't want to be educated?

That's common enough that there's no shame in it anymore.

[fasttense]

18. Is there an economic topic you wont soil with your neocon agenda?

We are at war and the bush is a war pResident cause he started an occupation with imaginary WMDs.

[Name removed]

23. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Nipper1959]

4. Socialism

I have to laugh at conservatives because they hate socialism but love for people to live the socialised life in the service.

[eridani]

25. The military isn't just socialist--it's practically a commie dictatorship

The nanny state takes care of food and shelter, and dictates how you will spend all your waking hours.

[Citizen Number 9]

28. Isn't great that we've taken care to

put it and keep it under civilian control all these years?

[eridani]

31. This has what to do with institutional structure? n/t

[Citizen Number 9]

36. The military.

It's totally and completely under civilian control, and always has been, right?


By convention and by law.

[eridani]

37. So? Its organizational structure is a communist dictatorship n/t

[fed_up_mother]

38. True. Who doesn't the military pay recruits enough to support a family?

Because if Uncle Sam wanted you to get married, he would have issued you a spouse!

[mrreowwr_kittty]

41. Something that is lost on so many military and ex-military folks.

But the worst ones are DOD employees and defense contractors. They love them some Republican anti-government rhetoric, while sucking on the government teat the whole time. :puke:

[Warpy]

6. Well, now that we will no longer have a madman in charge

a four year enlistment makes a certain amount of sense. I always hate to admit it, but the military has been the making of a lot of kids, teaching them self reliance, how to clean up after themselves, to grow up.

Civilian life can teach the same lessons but it generally takes a bit longer. The military accomplishes it in boot camp.

The military has a long and colorful history of using enlisted men as guinea pigs for CIA experiments, but the statistics favor escaping that fate. I dislike the military thoroughly but realize a defense force is a necessary evil in this age of nations. I am not temperamentally suited to a military life but know plenty of good people who are. This kid sounds like one of them.

A year ago I'd have discouraged it completely. This year, not so much.

The military, used to taking anything that drew breath for the last 8 years, will now find itself in the position of being picky.

[Citizen Number 9]

7. What's wrong with the Peace Corps?

I know three young people in there right now.

[jgraz]

10. They don't let you shoot people

[Citizen Number 9]

14. As attractive as that might be for you

there are other things in life. :wow:






Young grads should check out what the Peace Corps has to offer.

[jgraz]

17. Really, I needed a sarcasm tag for that? Really?

Sigh.. satire is truly dead.

[GliderGuider]

21. Not for human readers

Unfortunately, there's an even chance the entity who responded to you is a bot.

[Citizen Number 9]

22. It's true.

You see all kinds on the Internet. :)

[pokercat999]

11. As long as he/she doesn't mind being told to kill brown or

yellow poor people.

[SheilaT]

13. It's not as though there are literally

no jobs out there and 100% of the non military workforce is unemployed.

As for the student loan question, if the kid in question doesn't qualify for merit aid or a lot of need based aid, then the way to go is to start at the local junior college and after two years transfer to the best state university possible. Or go into something like CAD (computer aided design) or welding or medical records or any one of the very many vocational tracks that our community colleges do a very good job of teaching. Heck, plumbers aren't ever going to be outsourced and they make decent money. I know a guy here in Santa Fe who does computer support for small companies and private individuals. He charges $95/hour for individuals, $125/hour for businesses, and he's turning away business.

All that said, if the kid is comfortable with the idea of a career in the military, then he should enlist, and hopefully with his mother's blessing.

[AndyTiedye]

15. Wrong, Wrong, Wrong!

1. He comes from a family of Air Force Academy grads: grandfather and three uncles.

Our government treated our military personnel a lot better in those days.

2. Entering the Air Force would give him insulation from economic distress all his life. He would have college education, health care, retirement, employment.

The military now has a "use 'em up and dump 'em" policy.

3. The military will be under the command of Democrats for at least eight years.

Only one Democratic President has won re-election in my lifetime.

4. The military needs non wing-nuts, doesn't it? It needs the morality and worldview of liberals.

Such viewpoints are NOT welcome in the military. Sometimes with extreme prejudice.

5. It looks as if student loans will dry up, and that the chances of even a minimum-wage job are slim.

State schools are still an option. If there are no jobs in 4 years, Obama won't have a chance of being re-elected, and we'll have the mad cowboys back in power.

6. He enjoys physical challenge and enjoys the comraderie of a team.

Exercise is healthy, bullets, depleted uranium, IEDs, etc., not so much.

[GliderGuider]

16. Follow the arc of service out into the future

Just as those who volunteered for the US army in 2000 had no idea they'd be asked to do the unthinkable in Iraq, we have no guarantee that current volunteers won't be asked to do equally (or even more) unpalatable things a few years down the road. Given what's likely to happen to the economy over the next scant few years, this bears thinking about.

Might army units in 2011 be ordered to fire on crowds of American civilians protesting food or fuel shortages? Will they be ordered to fire on civilian crowds angry because they can't get their money out of banks? Or perhaps on crowds of ordinary citizens enraged by massive home foreclosures?

Might a volunteer who depends on the army for their bed and board feel reluctant to disobey such orders?

Is the promise of three squares a day, a roof and some structure worth the price of one's soul? It will be for many...

[Uben]

19. My future son-in-law just re-upped

He has been in the AF reserve and has already done a tour in Iraq. He left last saturday for Afghanistan. He proposed to my daughter the day before he left. When he returns, he will be getting his commercial helocopter license, thanks to the military benefits!

[Hawkowl]

24. Egads!

What is he going to do with a commcercial heliocopters license?!? Job prospects for helicopter pilots are always very bleak without several thousand hours of experience. Stay away from professional aviation (too late for me, as I am an airline pilot)

[fasttense]

20. I served 20 years in the military.

I have always been a liberal. I had many, many disagreements with my fellow officers, but I got promoted and was pretty successful. I made good pay and got to see the world.

I have been considering the same thing for my son. I wont let him go near the military until after the bush has removed himself from the White House.

I was in when the bush 1st took over and all the talk turned to torture. I was more afraid of my son having to defend himself from neocon military personnel promoting torture then in him getting killed by the enemy.

I am planning to wait about six months to see what Obama does in Afghanistan and what he does about torture, before I recommend my son join the Navy.

I would recommend your friend wait for about six months too. If you figure it takes about 2 months to finish boot-camp, and another 3 to 4 months to finish an A school (That's a Navy term for training in a specialty after boot-camp. Almost all new recruits have follow on orders to a training school.) Our sons wont see the "real" military for about a year after Obama becomes President.

I think with a rational caring person as Commander In Chief, military life wont be so dangerous.

[eridani]

26. I think it would be great if we could repurpose our military for actual defense

Under both parties, it's mainly an instrument of imperial bullying.

In order to join myself, I'd have to trust that our ruling elite would use my life, if necessary, for actual defense. That hasn't happened since the end of WW II. The upside to a Dem administration is smart imperialism instead of stupid imperialism. With the former, at least fewer people tend to be killed.

[2Design]

27. Exactly - that was the last war that was legit and for good reason

the rest of these are political and killing off young people and stuffing the pockets of corporatist.

[NMDemDist2]

29. the Air Force is a good bet. the food is good and the officers are the ones in harm's way

usually

the enlisted men are usually at the rear taking care of the planes and don't usually have to get into a shooting war

[jody]

30. The best advice is from "grandfather and three uncles", not uninformed, biased anonymous posters on

the internet.

[GliderGuider]

32. Yes. After all, the advice of four Air Force Academy grads is sure to be unbiased...

There's absolutely nothing wrong with searching out other perspectives on a topic like this, especially when the decision is so life-altering.

[jody]

33. LOL! Do you seek medical advice on an Internet forum? That's certainly life-altering. n/t

[GliderGuider]

34. Not joining the army won't kill you. Taking the wrong advice on cancer treatment might.

Major medical treatment is not optional, joining the army is. Choosing one form of treatment over another is not a matter of preference. Joining the army is.

While I would not seek medical advice on the internet, asking for various perspectives on military service seems eminently reasonable.

[jody]

35. I know many academy graduates from 2nd Lt to flag rank and not one of them would mislead anyone

about a career in our armed forces.

I don't believe a grandfather and three uncles would be dishonest with a family member but I do believe anonymous posters on the Internet are basically pushing their own opposition to service in their replies.

[anigbrowl]

39. It's an option. I've knowna lot of military liberals

Of course I've met a few ex-military wingnuts as well, but I don't think there is anything inherently wrong with serving in the armed forces. Intelligent people tend to do well there.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

40. Well ultimately it's not her choice.

Unless he's trying to enlist at 17 and needs parental permission. Once he's 18 he's free to do what he wants. Sounds like he's a smart kid from a good family and they are all well-informed. I especially agree with you on point 4. A military full of reactionary religious zealots is not a good thing. One of many reasons why I kinda think mandatory national service or even a draft might not be a bad idea.