Finding missing money or CD's. My stepfather died last year

[Booster]

and he told me he had invested a lot of money in CD's. When he died, my nephew (by marriage) went through their safe and I'm suspecting he took out the CD's. My mother has dementia, but she keeps insisting this nephew took her to a Bank of America and opened an account with "a lot of money". We took her to the BofA and asked, but they said there were no accounts in her name. I tried to hire a private investigator only to be told that bank accounts are off limits to anyone except the owner of the account (which is at it should be). Anybody have any ideas on how to find out about this type of problem? I'm at a loss here.

[gateley]

1. How would the nephew have accessed the CD's -- forgery? Maybe you could

express your concerns to someone at the bank and give them your stepfather's SS#? If you're really certain, you could hire an attorney. Or a private detective. Or some really good hacker (which is always easy in the movies but I wouldn't know how to find one in real life)?

[Booster]

4. I think he would have had my Mother sign them off. A week after

my stepfather died (June of last year), this same nephew had my Mother sign a bunch of black checks and moved $30,000 into a new bank account without saying a word to any of the rest of us. We caught him on that one and he said he did it to make sure the money was safe. Yeah, right. I really do wish I knew a good hacker - bet they could find the money in a heartbeat.

[Historic NY]

2. Did he die with a will? The accounts will be frozen until settled..

Depends on your state but look up probating a will and small estates. The CD's should have certificates corresponding with a starting date and a renewal date.

http://www.megalaw.com/ca/top/caprobate.php lots of stuff there proceedure, etc.

You will need an experienced attorney if your decided to contest a will or estate.

[Booster]

5. He did have a will, which was probated, and a trust set up, but

in 2007 when we were there visiting we say over $600,000 in various accounts and now we can only find about $300,000, so I would just like to know if he lost that much money where did he lose it? Doesn't seem like a dumb question to me.

[bemildred]

9. Who is the trustee?

What are the trustees powers?

If the will was probated there should be a personal representative, and if there was a trust set up, there should be a trustee, who might or might not be the same person. However, one or the other of those persons, depending on how things were done, has the right to all the records, etc.

[Statistical]

17. Find the paperwork.

Tax records.
Start with his tax returns from 2005 to 2009.

If the CD were inside an IRA or 401K that would be listed in tax return.
IF they weren't inside an IRA or 401K (not tax protected) then it would be in tax return and he would have paid taxes on interest earned.

It is possible your nephew stole the money but it is also possible your father lost some of it. Maybe he was embarrassed about poor investments and never told you prior to his death. Maybe he figured he had time to "make it back".

Tax records & bank statements are your starting place.

[DURHAM D]

3. CDs are not generally "certificates".

The original documents will probably just look like a bank account contract on regular paper. If he had a lot of CDs with various maturing dates the institution just sends a statement that looks pretty much like a bank statement. In other words, don't think he took anything out of the safe.

How long ago did he tell you he had a bunch of CDs? If he did have CDs going back 15 years they were likely for 5 years. The institution sends a notice just before they mature. If you don't respond they will roll over for another 5 years (some now roll for two years). If your fil was still paying attention the past two years he probably did not roll them over because the interest rates absolutely suck. He probably cashed them out and put the funds elsewhere.

You need to go through all of their papers. All of them. Do you have POA for your mother?

Have you reviewed their tax returns for the past few years? Look at their 1099s. That will tell you if CDs were cashed.

[Booster]

7. These CD's would have only gone back to 2007 because all the

money had been in 10,000 shares of Halliburton stock up until then. We have gone through all of their papers, but the problem is the nephew went through all of the papers before we could even get there. I have POA for my Mother. I have not had a chance to go through their tax returns - guess who has them? The nephew. LOL This is a very sticky situation.

[gateley]

11. Is it sticky because of the family? Are you hesitant to raise hell or confront him

because you're worried about causing family rifts? I know that can be touchy. It's always easy for us on the outside to say "who cares if it causes problems?" - but I know that's a valid concern when you're the one involved! Even asking the nephew could be touchy. My heart goes out to you. :hug:

You've gotten some great advice here and I do think an attorney would be the first step. I especially liked the idea of checking the 1099s to see if they had been cashed out. This might be one instance where it's a good thing the IRS is "here to help"!

Good luck! Act quickly, don't let it get worse.

[Geoff R. Casavant]

6. Hire a probate attorney for your stepfather's estate.

Either to probate his will if he had one, otherwise to have an intestate administration. Either way, get a personal representative appointed. The PR has the legal authority to track down all your stepfather's assets, including subpoenaing the relevant bank records.

[Booster]

8. I was given the name of an attorney in their area who specializes

in this type of case, so I will contact him and see if anything can be done. Thanks for that advice.

[Geoff R. Casavant]

10. Not a problem. Best of luck. n/t

[northernlights]

12. nonowners can access financial accounts with a POA, with signed consent by the owner (interested

party) or with a court order/court documentation such as executor of a will.

Does anybody have POA for your mother? With dementia she should not be left to handle financial matters on her own. I occasionally get calls from people who have dementia or something. It's very, very sad. The other night, I had an elderly man who didn't remember his own bank account on file -- he thought it was Ameritrade's bank account and that we'd put it on his account when he wired funds there. :( Another time I had a sweet guy who asked me the same question 3 or 4 times in a row. Each time, I answered him, and when I asked if there was anything else I could help him with...he asked the same thing. I didn't think I'd ever be able to end the call, and then on the 4th or 5th go-round, he hesitated and asked, "Did I ask you this already?" I gently answered "Yes" and then was able to end the call. I feel so bad for them...and worry for them afterwards. And they are definite prey for some brokerages as well as potential prey for family members.

[DURHAM D]

13. Who is/are the trustees on the Trust?

If the bank is one of them that could explain part of your problem. Do you (your mother) have a copy of the Trust document?

Sounds like your step father may have set up a trust and moved half of his money into the Trust. IOW - he divided the marital assets. Maybe he wanted his heirs to be someone other that your mother or you. Do you have siblings?

Who drew up the trust?

Who is their accountant?

Your mother (you with POA) should be able to get a copy of the tax returns from the IRS.

[Celebration]

14. as someone else said

Follow the money through the old tax returns. If they had someone prepare them, they would have the copies. Interest income from CDs would be on there and you would know where to start looking.

[barb162]

15. sounds like it is probate attorney time

Get a good one who knows what he or she is doing. Bigger firms are better, I have found.

[Statistical]

16. You need an attorney and FAST but a couple points:

a) 1099. If the CD was cashed prior to January 2010 then the bank will have filed a 1099 with IRS to report the taxable income. No 1099 = no CD cashed. Even if not cashed there should be 1099 for interest earned. No 1099 at all = no CD. Your father never had them.

b) CD aren't bearer bonds they are simply an account with the bank. Like a savings account with restrictions on when money can be removed w/o penalty. Thus while the nephew may have gone through the safe that would only let him know where CD accounts were located. He would still need to transfer that money out of those accounts.

c) The will doesn't name the CD accounts specifically? That would be unusual. Your father left no records of where his assets were located? Either in the will or somewhere else? First part of estate planning is naming the estate. It just seems strange that he would have half a million in CDs and not have that recorded anywhere.

Sorry for your troubles. You need an attorney and quickly. If the nephew did steal the money (forging POA for your father to withdrawl money from CD accounts and/or using your mother is the accounts were joint) the goal is to find it BEFORE he wastes it all.
It is little recourse to catch him after he has blown your father's life savings.

The attorney should be able to request records from the bank on any accounts (CDs) in your father's name. From there any transactional records (withdraws) to find out where the money went.

To anyone else reading...... this is why it is VERY important to keep will or other estate planning docs up to date. Had the accounts been specifically named in the will the trustee would be aware of them, would have frozen them, or at least it would be immediately obvious that someone had raided the accounts.