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Fleshdancer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-25-10 01:17 AM
Original message
China, Russia quit dollar
http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/china/2010-11/24/content_11599087.htm

China and Russia have decided to renounce the US dollar and resort to using their own currencies for bilateral trade, Premier Wen Jiabao and his Russian counterpart Vladimir Putin announced late on Tuesday.

Chinese experts said the move reflected closer relations between Beijing and Moscow and is not aimed at challenging the dollar, but to protect their domestic economies. "About trade settlement, we have decided to use our own currencies," Putin said at a joint news conference with Wen in St. Petersburg.

The two countries were accustomed to using other currencies, especially the dollar, for bilateral trade. Since the financial crisis, however, high-ranking officials on both sides began to explore other possibilities.

The yuan has now started trading against the Russian rouble in the Chinese interbank market, while the renminbi will soon be allowed to trade against the rouble in Russia, Putin said.

"That has forged an important step in bilateral trade and it is a result of the consolidated financial systems of world countries," he said.

.....

I usually like to add my $0.02 when posting an article, but I honestly have no idea what this means. Thoughts?
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dontcallmebob Donating Member (9 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-25-10 01:27 AM
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1. obama sure has poor timing.
obama sure has poor timing. one more thing to blame the "colored" fellow for.
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jtuck004 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-25-10 03:14 AM
Response to Reply #1
3. Could you elaborate on that please? Maybe provide a link
Edited on Thu Nov-25-10 03:38 AM by jtuck004
that ties Obama's action to that? Other than something like "he's President, so it must be something he did".

How many countries are clamoring for reserve currencies in the ruble or the yuan?

China did the same thing with Brazil a while back, and I don't see much change in the world.

We are going to have to get our house in order (i.e. create jobs and whatever industrial base(?) we need to create wealth
for the 22nd century), but the above may have little to do with that.


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Po_d Mainiac Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-25-10 02:09 AM
Response to Original message
2. It depends on whether other G-20 follow suit
It could be a prelude to further erosion of the u$d as the 'petro buck'...$150BBL oil might get Blackhawk Ben's attention.

Bottom line...It ain't good unless u can live without the influence of oil pricing taking chunks from your backside.
YMMV
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femrap Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-25-10 10:00 PM
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4. This is
very bad for those of us with $. China is getting ready to put the screws to us. The Chinese make plans in 20 year spans, not on a quarterly basis like we do in the land of the Greedy. The Dollar will no longer be the world's reserve currency...which I can understand given our financial situation (and all of the horrid things we have done to other nations....both physically and economically).

someone needs to get rid of Bernanke and his printing press. It's going to be painful...especially for the poor, the working poor, and the former middle class....so I guess that would be 90% of the population.

WASF....2011 is going to be....well, as Bette Davis said in 'All About Eve,' 'Fasten your seat belt......'
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dmallind Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-26-10 03:02 AM
Response to Reply #4
5. You'd think this would show up in the 20yr bond market then...
But nary a blip. China is buying plenty of them too...but planning on them being worthless? Oooooookaaay.
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femrap Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-26-10 09:22 AM
Response to Reply #5
7. The Chinese make plans based on a
generational outlook....their culture looks long term while our culture is concerned only with the here and now. I wasn't talking about bond markets.

China has created its own Rating Agency and has not given the US the highest rating. Moody's can no longer be trusted so China is stepping up and probably soon will be the number one economy.

Given that the US is eliminating the Middle Class, we won't be buying much from China. Other countries with growing middle classes will take up our slack. The US citizen will be spending money only on basics: shelter, heat, food, Thrift Store clothing.

Many of the emerging nations are setting up laws so as to NOT accept US dollar investments...they don't want dollars coming in and creating Bubbles. Brazil is doing so.

Check out the interview on Democracy Now! with Ja-Joon Chung, an economist from Oxford. He was on last week. He has a new book coming out, '23 Things They Don't Tell you About Capitalism.' His previous book is 'Bad Samaritan.'
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jtuck004 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-26-10 05:09 AM
Response to Reply #4
6. You are probably aware that China depends on us to buy their exports

to the tune of about $300 billion a year, give or take a few billion. They also have about two point something trillion in U.S. dollar reserves. They also have a real estate bubble, and some labor unrest to contend with. If they were to "put the screws to us", they stand to lose all or part of that $300 billion, and anything they do to make the $ decline in value makes their currency reserves, their assets, worth less.

They have spent the better part of the past decade holding the value of the yuan down in relation to the $ to keep those
export sales up. Given that, they have to be somewhat careful. The cheaper they make the dollar in relation to the yuan, the less their competitive advantage, the lower their asset value. That makes their imports more expensive and lowers their sales, which depresses their economy. Their housing bubble implodes, labor unrest boils over, then they have to drive tanks through the streets again, and that is always less a sure bet than it used to be. They would likely take over some businesses, some of them American and other corporations, to keep the doors open, and they rule by central committee. Business has little recourse in the event of a conflict, and owners can and do go to prison. People aren't exactly clamoring to settle international trades in a currency which can't be backed up by democratic laws

So while this is one little step, it is still just a little step. You are correct, I think, in your assumption that China would like to be the big dog, but they know we own the biggest chunk of food that fuels their economy.

That doesn't mean they won't try, but they have to think through it. Do they think we have become fat and lazy, that we won't rebuild our infrastructure, create the needed jobs, and continue to be a debtor nation, hardly in a position to challenge them? In that case they can do what they want. On the other hand, if we grow up, make the hard decisions and invest in our people, create the 10 million jobs we have pissed away over the last few decades and quit buying their output, they would be walking away from their cash cow. That would put them on a terrible economic diet and insure a recession for them. What is their thinking? Only they know...but they are a smart and resourceful people, who have equaled our manufacturing output in a mere 30 years, what it took us 200 to build.

As far as Bernanke and his "printing press", let's talk in real terms. We, the United States, are the sole provider and manufacturer of the dollar. One of the things we do is put zeroes in the accounts of the the reserve banks to put money into the economy. In normal times that is a good thing, because there is no other source of dollars other than our government. We also buy goods, another way of putting them out there. We also use it to pay unemployment, for social programs, for infrastructure. If it wasn't for those zeroes you would have no money to pay your taxes, none to buy cheap crap from China, none for your paycheck.

And there is another way. The government can create a work program like they did in the 30's, pay people to re-create the industrial structure we have pissed away in the past 40+ years. Rebuild the factories and teach people how to live in a globalized world, teach them where to spend their money so it won't wind up on a "pallet going to China" (actually it becomes "zeroes" added onto a Chinese account at the bank, but the imagery of the "pallet" is kind of useful.

I think you are correct in your assertion that there is some pain ahead, but we need to decide who is going to feel it. We should get rid of Bernanke (not a bad idea, since his solutions seem to always involve giving taxpayer money to his banking associates with no real return for the country), but we should keep the ability to create the zeroes. Lets put them to use by investing in our people and our country, into something that gives us a return on our money instead of insuring that investment bankers have enough for their next round of hundreds of millions in bonuses, for their second and third homes, for their cruises to, well, wherever. They will tell us they are feeling pain, but they likely have enough money to keep it from hurting too badly.

The worst and most painful decision would be to accede to their cries of woe and ignore the need and opportunity to address our challenges, and rebuild this country to what it could be. In that case there would be years, potentially decades of terrible pain and suffering by the people who it will hurt the most. And they have no defenses.
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femrap Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-26-10 09:42 AM
Response to Reply #6
8. I read recently that food
shortages have popped up in China and the gov't has provided subsidies. What changes a recession into a depression is a drought.

Now N. Korea is rattling sabers...is China pushing for this? Who knows?

Looking at history, Republics last around 200 years. I believe we are witnessing the Decline of the American Empire. We have roughly 800 military bases around the world. How can we support this?

The politicians are stubbornly supporting the Filthy Rich with no tax increases for them. The Filthy Rich have moved their labor pool to China and other cheap labor countries....why would they invest in manufacturing here where labor costs more? These people have no sense of morality. They exploit whomever and whatever they can.

They live in their gated communities with private security. The MSM is owned by them....so the propaganda machine goes 24/7.

I have little faith in the American people...except for those in CA and MA. I'm in Dumfukistan (the new name for Ohio after the last Election).

I wish I could see a ray of hope, but I don't. Now our gov't wants to reduce SS and Medicare....while allowing the rich a free ride.

I just hope this Global situation doesn't end up in WW3. Maybe Mother Nature will save us from ourselves...massive land mass changes or a Three Gorges Dam collapse?

Ever since Raygun, we have been in decline. How people can revere that pathetic, mean man is beyond me. W put several nails in our coffin.
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