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Trojan Horse in Tax Compromise: GOP Plan to Bankrupt States, Break Union

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girl gone mad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-07-10 09:39 PM
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Trojan Horse in Tax Compromise: GOP Plan to Bankrupt States, Break Union
Trojan Horse in Tax Compromise: GOP Plan to Bankrupt States, Break Union
http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2010/12/trojan-horse-in-tax-compromise-gop-plan-to-bankrupt-states-break-union.html

This alert came via James Pethokoukis of Reuters:

    Congressional Republicans appear to be quietly but methodically executing a plan that would a) avoid a federal bailout of spendthrift states and b) cripple public employee unions by pushing cash-strapped states such as California and Illinois to declare bankruptcy. This may be the biggest political battle in Washington, my Capitol Hill sources tell me, of 2011.

    That’s why the most intriguing aspect of President Barack Obama’s tax deal with Republicans is what the compromise fails to include — a provision to continue the Build America Bonds program. BABs now account for more than 20 percent of new debt sold by states and local governments thanks to a federal rebate equal to 35 percent of interest costs on the bonds. The subsidy program ends on Dec. 31. And my Reuters colleagues report that a GOP congressional aide said Republicans “have a very firm line on BABS — we are not going to allow them to be included.”

    In short, the lack of a BAB program would make it harder for states to borrow to cover a $140 billion budgetary shortfall next year, as estimated by the Center for Budget and Policy Priorities. The long-term numbers are even scarier. Estimates of states’ unfunded liabilities to pay for retiree benefits range from $750 billion to more than $3 trillion.


This report has serious, and apparently unrecognized implications...

http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2010/12/trojan-horse-in-tax-compromise-gop-plan-to-bankrupt-states-break-union.html">MORE

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snot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-07-10 09:40 PM
Response to Original message
1. K&R'd
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Tansy_Gold Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-07-10 09:50 PM
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2. K&R
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sam kane Donating Member (326 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-07-10 09:50 PM
Response to Original message
3. oh no. nt
nt
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The Backlash Cometh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-07-10 09:51 PM
Response to Original message
4. I don't get it. Are the Republicans trying to start riots in the street?
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jtuck004 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-07-10 10:04 PM
Response to Reply #4
8. The most radical, including the Tea Party, think that a destroyed
United States is better than one with Obama at the helm. Most seem to think the same thing about any of those who
they call "libruls".

They think that a Glen Beck will rise from the ashes to lead us, and that all the might will be on
their side. Old aquaintance of mine said exactly that - and if you have watched any Glen Beck, I think
he may believe it as well.

('Course, when I ask them if there are people in the street with guns, what makes them think they will be on
their side? They have no answer, but that's another post).

Go talk to some of these folks - they are as dangerous as any terrorist. The only person more dangerous are those running the 6 largest investment banks, the ones who brought us our current depression. They are responsible for more deaths and the destruction
of more wealth than any terrorist that has ever hit the United States - but the path back to them takes some thought, which is hard
to put in the 10 second sound bite. So they skate away...

I was listening to a Tea Partyer on the Thom Hartman show a while back - he flat out asked her if she realized the ideas she was promoting could lead to the destruction of this country. Her answer was "Well, that is better than having Obama in office".

Swear to dog, that's what she said, and she was dead serious.
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glinda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-07-10 10:08 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. They need to be educated as they are pawns of ignorance.
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jtuck004 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-07-10 10:28 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. I think it is a mistake to think that..

They are of average intelligence (as are most people), determined, and pledge allegiance to an evil, selfish, narcissistic, self-pitying, short-sighted philosophy.

IMHO most are not ignorant, and anyone who wishes to oppose them successfully needs to organize enough numbers to smother their hatred.

Just my 2 cents, however. Your mileage may vary ;)
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westerebus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-08-10 12:18 AM
Response to Reply #10
14. Varying mileage.
I happen to live in Virginia. I happen to live in Eric Cantor's district. As a district, it is as far to the right of Richard Nixon as you can get and still be in this country.

The Tea Party candidate got 35% of the vote. The Democratic candidate got 14%.

Those numbers you don't hear about. 35% of Cantor's base voted against him.

Come 2011 things are going to get real ugly.

If you think the Re-pubs are going to control these folks, you're in for a surprise.

That's the reason Boner cut a deal with the President.

And why the President went for it.

Yes, I do know a lot of these folks. They just think I'm nuts. So it's not a problem.

They do get upset when I say we should nuke North Korea to teach the Chinese we really don't give a shit what they think. That's when I get that you know that boy ain't right in the head look.

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jtuck004 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-08-10 01:17 AM
Response to Reply #14
15. LOL

Well, that would certainly take care of the problems in the kimchi market...I've not been a big fan of people who think of dog as a delicacy, where the more pain they suffer before they hit the platter the tastier they are, though I think yet another "Bush-doctrine solution" (pre-emptive attacks) don't really work all that well. I think we have other ways we could stop some of that nonsense however. And other than as a wedge to screw with us, I don't think the Chinese really care that much about N. Korea. The Chinese have figured out the way to power is to make money, and the N. Koreans just haven't joined in.

I do think people who call the Tea Partiers names are not taking them seriously enough. I know why - given a nuclear trigger, I am sure that at near 50% of them would blow this country off the map rather than have Obama as president. The "sane" half would just use conventional weapons. Those aren't people we should take lightly. (I know, I'm overstating. I'm sure it's only about a third that would do that - the others just want to use the government to rule or subjugate us all).

That doesn't mean they aren't smart, however, just that their philosophy is short-sighted and anti-democratic and celebrates fascism. They do seem to stand together better than many - which is certainly easier if the ethics of one's hated-based world view can be written on the back of a bubble-gum wrapper and stuffed under the white pillow-case one wears over their face at parties.

Educating at least a third of them is not going to happen - we have to out-vote them. And then be ready 'cause all that "reload" talk is more than just a metaphor for some. (Maybe a "Democrat discount day" at the shooting range would sharpen up some skills, could even provide a window for education. Or it might just provide them with targets...)

But we consistently concentrate on the wrong things, on fighting each other while the oligarchy steadily takes everything that is not nailed down - and sometimes rips that loose. A lot of their power would go away if we had good jobs, and an investment program that was building our industries up for the modern era and investing in our people instead of these short-term "fixes" that create debt, offers no real solutions, and leaves everyone fighting for scraps.

Thanks for making me laugh, though.
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The Backlash Cometh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-08-10 10:29 AM
Response to Reply #10
17. They have created their own networks, with the cards stacked on their side.
First, it was taking over the courts, now, what I'm seeing in my area, is promoting police chiefs to political office. No one knows how to team play better than a police chief, which is to say, the "right" people will get sent to jail, while the "right" people will get a free pass.

Listen, they have enclaves of power all of this country. They've never been challenged. Why wouldn't they think they can now do the same thing to the country? In fact, they already have gotten away with some outrageous things.
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jtuck004 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-08-10 02:48 PM
Response to Reply #17
21. That's true. But progressives and socialists have been organizing
successfully a lot longer than they have, and if they decide to get back in the game, the Tea Party will find a formidable opponent.
That's who the TP's learned from, but their philosophies are too short-sighted and lack the depth necessary to win against people with heart and spirit. Whether that will happen again before the country is destroyed is the question.

They would need fiery people with spirit who can't be bought off and are willing to suffer endless losses before winning again, and it might require ripping through the "corporate-sponsored progressives" that seem to dominate today. That's a tall order, but if it happens, that's the side I will be on.
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glinda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-07-10 10:01 PM
Response to Original message
5. K & R
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K8-EEE Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-07-10 10:01 PM
Response to Original message
6. I'm starting to think "breaking the Union" wouldn't be such a bad thing
I mean how are we supposed to progress in the country with whole states of people who vote for the likes of Rand Paul while sucking up more fed money than we blue states take in.

I'm not knocking any of my Red State DUer friends in fact I admire you guys a lot I'm just saying that maybe "preserving the Union" wasn't such a good idea.
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happyslug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-07-10 11:12 PM
Response to Reply #6
12. They are NOT talking of breaking the Federal Union, but State Government Employees Unions
See my comment below and re-read the actual article.
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K8-EEE Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-08-10 12:14 AM
Response to Reply #12
13. Oh, I see well of course.
They've been trying to break up unions, and have been quite successful at it, since Reagan. Unfortunately.
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MrPugglyWuggly Donating Member (3 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-08-10 01:21 AM
Response to Reply #6
16. Maybe the unions should consider helping out
A lot of people are hurting badly in this economy. The layoffs have been in the private sector. Our government unions have not been affected in the same way as most private workers. We do get generous benefits and great pay as compared to many private workers. I'm just saying that maybe we should consider helping out the team and take a 10-15% pay cut to help.
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Tansy_Gold Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-07-10 10:02 PM
Response to Original message
7. Please
repost this Wednesday morning in the Stock Market Watch thread.

Thanks

TG, TT
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happyslug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-07-10 11:11 PM
Response to Original message
11. Two problems with this comment, first it is to break labor unions NOT the Federal union
First, the movement is to force the states, do to economic crisis, to tell its unionized state Government Work Force to accept a major cut in wages and income. Right now, the most Unionized part of the Work Force are State Employees. There are a good example for private employees that the Right wants to destroy. Thus the right sees a nation wide economic crisis as a means to destroy the last stand of widespread unionization in the US. Worse, most state employees are paid better the Private Employees (when Private employment is taken as a whole) but when compared to workers with the same amount of training, State unionized workers are paid less. Now, the Right knows this, but sees the state Government union not only a to good an example to be tolerated buy also as a safety net that they can NOT force wages below. i.e. if the State is hiring, private employees lose employees to the State do to the better working conditions do to both Civil Service (and the courts view of Employment by the state and how that employment is a property right, something private employment has never been ruled to be by the Courts) and unionization (Which can provide the Legal Assistance to enforce the idea that Government employment is a property Right).

The above also holds open the door for a court to rule sometime in the future that since Corporations are creation of the State, they come under the same rule as the state including the concept the employment by the state is a property right that can NOT be taken way without good cause.

Second, the article assumes that the Tea Party right is actually thinking long term. I suspect they are not, for the right wing NEVER things long term, just the next election. One of the reason the Right hated Marx was he took the Rights view of Capitalism and took it to where it was heading for, and has been proved correct over and over again (it is so bad the CIA uses Marxist findings as to when revolutions occur to set up revolutions itself, i.e. never do a revolution as an economy declines, only once it bottoms out and starts to boom).

Now, Marx was wrong on what would replace Capitalism, he predicted a worker's revolution and then a march to Communism, but what happen was, while the leaders of the Communist Revolutions would stay true to that idea, the people below them, the people actually leader the workers in revolt, quickly become the new middle class and the workers are put down again (This is what Stalin did in the late 1930s, killed off what remained of the old leftest communists and replaced them with the bureaucrats that had come into economic control of society as a result of the Revolution, other communists called it "State Capitalism" and that is true in a way, the bureaucrats acted like the old Upper Middle Class of Russia, with the same demands as to their privileges including better housing, food and education for their Children. I point this out for while Marx was right about WHEN and WHO would do the Revolution, he was just wrong as to WHO would rule AFTER the revolution.

I bring this up, for Marx did address what would happen long term under Capitalism, when the petty "Bourgeoisie" i.e. the Foremen, managers, Doctors, Lawyers, etc., of Society are forced (by income reduction do to more money going to the Upper Class) to the same income as the working class then you have a revolution for the upper middle class loses control over the working class when those petty bourgeoisie become part of the Working class (And this occurs after the Working class itself has seen a huge reduction in income, as it has since Reagan).

My point is Marx pointed out the crushing of the Working class and then the petty "Bourgeoisie" is NOT something the Upper Middle Class plans on, it just happens do to what the Upper Middle Class is doing to enrich itself. Thus I suspect there is no plan to crush the Federal Union, maybe a group think to crush the labor union movement, but not the Federal Union for then you have to think of what will replace it and the Right has NOT even brought up that idea (Yes, some right wingers have brought up a military dictatorship, but at the same time most right wingers oppose such a military dictatorship, thus the proposals go no where).

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OllieLotte Donating Member (495 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-08-10 01:14 PM
Response to Original message
18. Let them go bankrupt.
I have no wish to pay for the pensions of employees or services provided to other states. My state is having it's own budget problems and it should be up to the residents of my state to resolve them.
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dixiegrrrrl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-08-10 02:36 PM
Response to Reply #18
19. How are YOU paying for the pensions of other state's school teachers
or State employees??????
I must be missing something. Please enlighten me.

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OllieLotte Donating Member (495 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-08-10 04:14 PM
Response to Reply #19
22. Currently I am not.
If Illinois has to go to the Feds for a bailout, then I would be paying for it. I think it's a local issue...and a local problem.
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Tansy_Gold Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-08-10 02:37 PM
Response to Reply #18
20. And does your state, Georgia, get back more than it pays in in federal taxes?
Just askin'.



TG, TT
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OllieLotte Donating Member (495 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-08-10 04:17 PM
Response to Reply #20
23. Maybe.
If I really wanted to know, I would google it. Maybe you could do it?
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mrdmk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-08-10 05:18 PM
Response to Reply #23
24. You are missing the question
TG asked, 'do you know the ratio of money paid out verse money receive?'. Not, 'what is the ratio of money paid out verse the money received?' Another words, is your statement backed-up by fact or feeling...

The answer is as of 2005 for every $1.00 that Georgia gives to the U.S. Federal Government, the U.S. Federal Government sends back $1.03!

link: http://www.nemw.org/images/taxburdrank.pdf
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DemReadingDU Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-08-10 10:29 PM
Response to Reply #24
25. interesting link, thanks
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OllieLotte Donating Member (495 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-09-10 08:46 AM
Response to Reply #24
26. Actually, you are the one that is missing the point.
States take the "free" money from the Federal Government and spend on things that they never would buy and pay for because they perceive that it is free. Currently, there is talk of a another light rail line. Georgia would never waste it's money on such a project, but because we can use Federal Funds, there is an interest in doing the project. Trust me, we would be far better of if we were able to keep our $1.00 and spend it in ways that we thought were appropriate rather than getting $1.03 and spending it on projects the the rest of the country considers a worthwhile for Georgia.

The Republicans named Rogers to head up the Appropriations Committee. I had hoped that the Republicans would have gone with Kingston from Georgia, as Rogers is the poster boy for wasteful spending. Anyone would have been a better choice. They renamed Daniel Boone Parkway after him. Jeepers, like a water treatment plant wouldn't be the proper use of his good name.

Once the states go bankrupt, they will get their house in order. As long as they are counting on a bailout, they will keep on spending money that they do not have. It will also send a strong message to the other states.

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