Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

Electrify 36,000 miles of mainline railroads

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Topic Forums » Environment/Energy Donate to DU
 
phantom power Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-15-08 04:23 PM
Original message
Electrify 36,000 miles of mainline railroads
This is one section from a longer proposal.

Oil can be saved from the diesel that railroads use today (231,000 barrels/day in 2006) and from truck freight (2,552,000 barrels/day in 2006) by switching to electrified rail. Trucks carry about a quarter fewer ton-miles than rail, but with 11 times the oil.

The USA has 177,000 miles of railroads, with the Department of Defense classifying 32,421 miles as strategic (STRACNET). These selected rail lines correlate closely, but not exactly, with what are considered “main line” railroads. DoD only selected one rail line when two main lines parallel and a few main lines are not considered strategic. 36,000 miles should cover all of the main lines.

The Pareto Principle (also known as the 80/20 rule) suggests that the 36,000 miles of main line railroad should carry 80% of the railroad ton-miles, and burn 80% of the fuel (there being no electrified freight lines in the USA), or 185,000 barrels/day.

Electrifying 36,000 miles of US railroads could take as little as six years with “Maximum Commercial Urgency” (see Appendix Two). The Russians electrified the Trans-Siberian Railroad in 2002 and to the Arctic port of Murmansk in 2005, so there are no technical obstacles to electrifying American railroads. .

However, this calculation of 185,000 barrels of oil/day saved seriously underestimates the fuel saving potential, especially in an oil constrained future, Transferring just 8% of the truck ton-miles to electrified rail would save another 204,000 barrel/day. Transferring half would save 1,276,000 barrels/day, plus the 185,000 barrels/day for 1,461,000 barrels/day saved (roughly equal to ANWR at its peak, but electrified rail does not deplete - which ANWR inevitably will). Transferring 85% of truck freight to rail, and electrifying half of US railroads, which the author considers to be possible with a large enough investment (see Appendix Four), would save 2.3 to 2.4 million barrels/day. That is 12% of USA oil used today for all purposes, not just transportation.

This dwarfs any other “silver BB” being actively discussed that can be implemented quickly. And best yet, no new technology is required. This analysis shows that the major oil savings are in transferring freight from trucks to electrified rail. Electrified rail passenger service is an added, but unspecified, bonus.

http://www.theoildrum.com/node/4301


Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
Deja Q Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-15-08 04:34 PM
Response to Original message
1. Yeah, but how to convince people not to put pennies or tied up women onto the tracks?
:shrug:

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
phantom power Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-15-08 04:40 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. A real chestnut, it is...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
phantom power Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-15-08 04:47 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. Mounties?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
NNadir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-15-08 05:33 PM
Response to Original message
4. The program to nationally electrify railroads, as I recall, lost out to the national interstate
highway subsidy in the 1950's as I recall.

We're still there.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
phantom power Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-15-08 05:43 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. That's what I recall too.
Not that I was born yet when it happened.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
NNadir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-15-08 06:05 PM
Response to Reply #5
7. You mean you didn't vote for Stevenson?
Henry Wallace and I were chatting at my retirement dinner about the policy. It had to be 1954 or 1956, at the Robert Lincoln memorial dinner when Henry - still bitter about Truman having sat in his chair - starting talking about how Eisenhower was going to sell this stuff because the autobahn made it so easy to move troops through Germany.

In fact the Interstate Highway System was part of a defense bill.

I kid you not.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
phantom power Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-15-08 06:22 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. Yes, straight sections doubling as emergency runways, and all...
My first election was Dukakis/Bush in 88.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
NNadir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-15-08 09:20 PM
Response to Reply #8
13. Wow. That was a depressing election. My first election was Roosevelt's...
...Theodore's.

I served with him in the war for the "liberation" of Cuba from the oppressive yoke of Spain and even though I was remembering the Maine just like I never forget 9/11 and just like I remember Pearl Harbor, I decided to vote for William Jenning Bryan, since it's clear that men did not evolve from monkeys.

Seriously, Dukakis was the worst Democrat for whom I had to vote in a Presidential election.

There's an interesting book by Glenn Seaborg, who was personal friends with every Democratic President and Presidential candidate except Dukakis, and who in fact knew every President personally from Truman on, in which he has a rare burst of contempt...for Dukakis.

It was the only time I really consider that I truly had to "hold my nose" to vote for the Democratic candidate.

Dukakis is where he deserves to be, in obscurity.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Wednesdays Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-15-08 08:10 PM
Response to Reply #7
11. Ike wanted to emulate the German autobahn
"In fact the Interstate Highway System was part of a defense bill.

I kid you not."

While helping conquer Nazi Germany during World War II, Eisenhower was impressed with Hitler's "autobahn" system, which made for efficient movement of tanks and other military vehicles. So, Ike wanted to set up a similar system here in the USA.

I was just thinking recently, how much money could be saved if everything became electric (electric cars, electric trains, etc.), particularly if the energy came from renewable sources (solar panels on cars, for instance). But that would mean no profits for oil companies and we can't have that, now, can we? :eyes:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Vogon_Glory Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-15-08 07:43 PM
Response to Reply #4
10. President Carter Had Made An Effort In That Direction
Actually, President Carter had made efforts to encourage a couple of the major railroads to electrify their busier routes during his one term in office. Since putting up catenary posts and stringing up overhead wire wasn't cheap in the late 1970's, Carter's electrification plans would have required subsidies or tax credits. Of course, when Ronald Wilson Whoosie-doodle came in, all those plans went down the scuppers.

Since then, US freight railroads have had a traffic boom, and I believe that a lot of that boom is likely to survive higher gas prices and perhaps even a diminishing of long-distance coal hauls. Moreover, a lot of the busiest routes have been double- and even triple-tracked, an enlargement of capacity on the scale that hasn't been done since the heyday of EH Harriman, James Jerome Hill, and Alexander Cassat before World War One.

I still think that electrifying the most heavily-traveled US mainlines would be an excellent idea. I may not support electrifying ALL of them, but certainly the busiest ones could stand running under wire. Moreover, while the US has seriously lagged in the development of high speed passenger locomotives and TGV-style sets, North American manufacturers can build satisfactory electric freight locomotives.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
NNadir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-15-08 11:15 PM
Response to Reply #10
14. That was the most informative post I've seen here in quite a while.
Thanks.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Vogon_Glory Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-16-08 08:08 AM
Response to Reply #14
17. Railroad Buffs Tend To Be Passionate About Their Subject
You're welcome.

Railroad buffs do tend to be passionate about their obsession. I remember the proposals from the Carter years and was disappointed that they didn't go anywhere.

I was hoping to provide some links to some references to the Carter-era railroad electrification proposals. Unfortunately, I'm not that clever a Googler.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
NNadir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-16-08 10:57 AM
Response to Reply #17
19. Well if you stumble upon links, please share it with us along with your insights.
I really think that rail electrification can be an important strategy in slowing the catastrophe of climate change and the attendant impoverishment that will come with it.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
FREEWILL56 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-16-08 01:28 AM
Response to Reply #4
16. Even so we could still start electrifying the rails too.
Heaven knows the roads suck.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Javaman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-16-08 09:43 AM
Response to Reply #4
18. You maybe thinking about this...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DCKit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-15-08 05:50 PM
Response to Original message
6. They could upgrade "the grid" at the same time...
along the RR right-of-ways and save a shitload of $$$$.

But they won't.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
pscot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-15-08 07:39 PM
Response to Reply #6
9. And install wind farms and solar arrays
along the right-of-ways to put the power where it's needed
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DCKit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-16-08 12:51 AM
Response to Reply #9
15. But they won't. n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ThoughtCriminal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-15-08 08:36 PM
Response to Original message
12. There was considerable interest in the 70's
In electrifying some heavily used freight lines, and also some experimental prototype freight locomotives were built. But, except for some specialized carriers (ie: the Black Mesa & Lake Powell Railroad that runs from mine to power plant and a couple of similar operations), not much happened. In fact, some of the few lines that were electrified, like portions of the Milwaukee Road's mountain lines, dropped electrification around 1974. In the latter case, obsolesence of the equipment and infrastructure was probably a factor.

Electrification is still used on a number of commuter lines and the Amtrak northeast corridor. There are no real technical barriers, just capital. There may also be some problems with bridge and tunnel clearances on some routes for over-head electrification.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Thu Dec 26th 2024, 07:42 AM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Topic Forums » Environment/Energy Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC