Just talking ok, maybe even looking for encouragement

[madokie]

I wonder if maybe I should convert one of the lighter vehicles as one of our fellow DU'ers and my neighbor has done and put up a wind generator sized primarily to charge the batteries whenever the wind is blowing with the rest of the time using the grid for that. I'm kind of getting old, 60, but feel I have several more good years left in me and it sure would be nice to be able to go visit with family and friends plus go shopping and whatever and not have to buy gasoline at all. I'm a tinkerer from hell and could do most if not all the building part with only having to have what machining done that I would need.

Using something like a ford fiesta or a Geo metro or maybe even an older ford ranger for a vehicle. Would a 15 hp three phase motor be enough to give a top speed of 60 mph? I really don't care much about acceleration so its not real important and we could live with shifting gears.

What size of a wind turbine would I need if I expected to charge the batteries once per say a 24 hour period, providing the wind is blowing that is. We could always use the grid to make up the difference. We have a lot of windy days where the wind speed will be in the 12 to 20 mph range at ground level. Would a 40 or maybe 50 ft tower be tall enough? I mention that height because its something my brothers and I could put up and take down with no problems for maintenance and such. The blades I could make as long as they weren't too long and spruce wood makes good blades in the 12 feet lengths or so I'm told.

Any ideas, I'm all ears.

[Veritas_et_Aequitas]

1. I won't pretend to understand much of what you just said,

but if it's feasible, go for it.

[madokie]

2. nothing like honesty and thanks

stick around and you may come to understand it all. Never can tell :-)

[Tuesday Afternoon]

3. I am having family move within a horse's ride away. Otherwise

I will have to camp out for the night if I intend to visit.

[madokie]

4. how far can a horse travel in a day anyway?

[Tuesday Afternoon]

5. I would also consider walking at a rate of 4 miles per hour. --

Horses can travel upwards of thirty (and some, even forty) miles per hour. They cannot sustain this pace for long, though. A horse can gallop a couple of miles at full steam, but the same horse can canter (or lope) much farther. Trotting (either a fast trot or a jog trot) isn't a bad way to travel, but you don't get very far very fast. Faster trotting is tiring to the rider as well because you are posting (rising up and down out of the saddle on alternate beats). Horses can walk all day, with brief rest periods. The condition of the horse can make a difference in endurance. A conditioned horse can do much more than one who isn't. The same is true for diet. A horse who has had all he needs to eat and drink is more likely to be a reliable mount. A horse that isn't in shape is more susceptible to injury as well.

more at link:

http://wwwestra.com/horses/history_travel.htm

[madokie]

12. What about if I had the bush syndrome though

you know afraid of horses :-) that would pretty much rule that out for me, huh. :hi:

[Dead_Parrot]

14. There's always cows...

...a snippet from NZ: It's illegal to drive a car while drunk (duh). It's also illegal to ride a horse while drunk (it's that sort of place - They had to extend it). But, they forgot to extend it to cows: There's one guy about 3 miles from me who occasionally abuses that loophole to get home on a friday night.

Go figure.

[madokie]

16. I like him right off. One of our friends used to use his riding lawnmower for the same thing

until the cops caught on to what he was doing. I'm not much good with cows either though. I tried to milk a cow one time and let me tell you that must of been something to see cause the cow took if for a while but finally she kicked my bucket over, pushed me to the side and moo'ed the hell with it and ran out of the barn. In 30 minutes I might have had a quart of milk, maybe.

[lostnotforgotten]

6. Some Useful Links To Get You Started

http://www.homepower.com/basics/wind/

http://www.electroauto.com/

http://www.electric-car-conversions.com/index.html

http://www.e-volks.com/electric_car_conversions.html

http://jerryrig.com/convert/

[madokie]

11. Thanks, I'll be checking them out

I'm a design and build it myself type person and always have been so I have the experience to pull this off I just don't have enough knowledge as of the electrical part just yet, working on that now though.

[tinrobot]

7. You're close, but may want to revisit the motor

A few issues may crop up, the first is that a 15hp motor may be a little underpowered if you want to go 60mph.

Another is that an AC motor is more complicated when it comes to an EV. The motor controller/inverter is usually more expensive than a DC one, and controllers work on a narrower range of motors. Most conversions use DC because it's simpler.

If you want to convert a Metro, here's someone who scavenged a used forklift and built a DC Metro for $672. Might give you some ideas:

http://ecomodder.com/blog/a-672-electric-car/

As for wind turbine size, it really depends on the wind speed and the size of the battery pack. A typical EV setup would have a dozen or so 100ah 12v batteries, for about 14Kwh of power. If your windmill could output a constant 1KW, then you'd probably have more than enough to charge within 24 hours (i.e. 24kwh)

[madokie]

9. Thanks for the info and link

My better sense tells me to stick with dc as it would be easier for me to use some sort of regenerative braking to help extend the range and to not be so wasteful. Its possible that I can come up with an old fork truck motor as the plant my brother still works at and I used to work at years ago have some old dc fork trucks out in their bone yard.

[tinrobot]

20. Actually regen braking is easier with AC

A lot of AC motor controllers have regen braking built right in.

Not so easy with DC, as you'll need a separate generator.

[Dead_Parrot]

8. I'd echo pretty much what Tinrobot's said...

...15hp (~11kW in new money) sounds too small, especially if you're putting it through any of the existing transmission - You'd probably want to double it at least, depending on the donor car: You might not want to be able to out-drag a Telsa, but you do want to be able to negotiate an intersection without being to turned to shrapnel - 0-60 in 3 days with a following wind isn't going to help, there. :)

And stick with DC, life is too short to be buggering around with AC unless you plan on getting in outside help in. Or you really know your variable AC systems, of course, but then I guessing you wouldn't asking us. ;)

What sort of wind power you'd want depends on how much power it winds up using, and I don't think there's any way to judge that until you've built it: You might want to get the car up and running and measure the energy use, then judge the requirements from that. I would mention that, many years ago, I knew a guy who built a small turbine out of an old car alternator. It looked like whirling death, but it's food for thought...

[madokie]

10. Cool and true that wanting to be able to not be run over because of being so slow

I have several alternators, one that I built a welder out of years ago that is still good to go and may be what I'm looking for. I had to replace the diodes with much larger ones to take the welding current. It will put out 100 amps current into a welding voltage of 25 or so volts with a 100% duty cycle. I had to increase the number of winding in the rotor some and speed it up to around 7000 rpms to do that though which would pretty much rule it out for this project. My neighbor has a 4 kw wind turbine that uses a 5 hp ac motor for the generator that the gearbox overruns to make it into a generator. I've also played around with using a three phase motor as a generator by powering up one leg with ac and then when I connect another motor to it to turn it it will put out 120 or 240 ac depending on hookup and of which I just happen to have a 7.5 hp one of. Do you know anything about doing that, using a three phase motor to generate power with. I read about it somewhere back years ago that made me try and find it did work, how efficiently or anything I can't say though.

[Dead_Parrot]

13. No, you're well ahead of me there...

...I have a sneaky suspicion that it it won't be the meek who inherit the earth, it'll be those who can wind a coil. It's sounds like you're well placed. :)

Personally, my knowledge stops at: If you're buggering around, don't use AC - it'll never work.

:dunce:

[catnhatnh]

15. A couple of polyphase facts....

...3 phase motors are in fact motor/generators-electricity makes them spin and spinning them (by an outside power source) makes electricity. Three phase motors are constant speed by design.

At 60Hz most common 3 phase motors run at 3600, 1800, or 1200rpm though lower speeds are possible. These speeds are the "design speed" though due to friction loss the nameplate rpm will be lower (say 3450rpm on a 3600 design motor).

Both speed and horsepower can be changed to a degree by rewinding. Limiting factors for HP are the physical dimensions of the core-the part of the motor made of a stack of laminations which the copper coils are fit into. When changing HP, careful measurements are made of the lamination "tooth width" and "back iron" plus length or stack to determine maximum permissible magnetic flux density and this calculation determines maximum HP. Increased HP is reached by lowering the number of turns per coil while increasing the the wire size of the coils to accept the increased amperage that comes with the power increase.

Speed is changed by changing the number(per pole) and positioning(slot span) of the coils themselves...fast motors (3600) will have just 2 poles on 3 phases for a total of 6 coil groups. Fast motors will also have the longest coil span with a common span being 10-11 teeth in a 36 slot core. A slow motor will have 6 poles on three phases for a total of 18 coil groups...say 18 groups of 2 coils spanning 4-5 teeth in a 36 slot design.

Varying (not changing) the speed of an 3 phase is possible using an AC inverter using SCR's to alter frequency though when I last looked at (1998) them they were still somewhat bulky and limited in their torque curve and expensive, though this may have changed.

Anyhow,I did that shit in a past life. So if you need any info from a hot dog vendor about 3 phase stuff, ask and I'll do my best to answer-but I am NOT an engineer or electronics guy-just an old coil-tosser

[madokie]

17. Thanks and I'll do that

bug you that is. :-) I worked with my brother back during the raygun years, we converted about 70% of the machines in our local steel foundry to process controlers from relays so I have a lot of experience in installations and such but not much in troubleshooting and troubleshooting is where one really learns about how things work and interact with one another. We'd work for months sometimes on some of the machines running new conduit mounting all new devices etc, a complete total rewiring and then take a long weekend and do the actual change over. Brain transplants is how I refered to it. I loved it but I was happy to see that project finally end as it was so stressful, took 10 more years off my life than the 10 years I lived for sure.

[vorlund]

18. Here's something I found on the Hack a Day site:

http://www.yourgreendream.com/diy_fisher_paykel.php

Directions on how to make a wind powered generator from a washing machine motor. The instructions are for a motor from a specific washing machine, but with a little know-how you could probably use other motors.

[madokie]

19. Great,

I'll check it out now, thanks.

Add: I'll be looking for one of these tomorrow morning when the repair shops open and see what I can find. Do you know what the motors are generally called if they are called anything?