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This is a DISASTER!!!! And we've deliberately been kept in the dark.

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Dover Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-05-09 09:39 PM
Original message
This is a DISASTER!!!! And we've deliberately been kept in the dark.
Edited on Mon Jan-05-09 10:20 PM by Dover
...for our ocean life, food supply, human health, etc. Etc. ETC!!!!! And this is probably not the ONLY incident of dumping toxic waste in our oceans. How much of the destruction to our oceans
being reported as due to global warming is in fact the result of this toxic dumping???
And illegal dumping will get worse because NO ONE wants the waste and it's expensive to dispose of!
So much for the 'clean' nuclear solution.

This was originally posted by DUer 'NOWtense' in Editorials, but deserves MUCH more exposure.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=103&topic_id=413790&mesg_id=413790

This incident off the coast of Somalia is a crime of the most heinous nature and must be stopped, prosecuted AND cleaned up IMMEDIATELY!!! It is the equivalent of dropping a nuclear bomb on this region. This has been going on for at least two DECADES!


You are being lied to about 'Pirates'

Who imagined that in 2009, the world's governments would be declaring a new War on Pirates? As you read this, the British Royal Navy - backed by the ships of more than two dozen nations, from the US to China - is sailing into Somalian waters to take on men we still picture as parrot-on-the-shoulder pantomime villains. They will soon be fighting Somalian ships and even chasing the pirates onto land, into one of the most broken countries on earth. But behind the arrr-me-hearties oddness of this tale, there is an untold scandal. The people our governments are labeling as "one of the great menace of our times" have an extraordinary story to tell -- and some justice on their side.

..snip..

In 1991, the government of Somalia - in the Horn of Africa - collapsed. Its nine million people have been teetering on starvation ever since - and many of the ugliest forces in the Western world have seen this as a great opportunity to steal the country's food supply and dump our nuclear waste in their seas.

Yes: nuclear waste. As soon as the government was gone, mysterious European ships started appearing off the coast of Somalia, dumping vast barrels into the ocean. The coastal population began to sicken. At first they suffered strange rashes, nausea and malformed babies. Then, after the 2005 tsunami, hundreds of the dumped and leaking barrels washed up on shore. People began to suffer from radiation sickness, and more than 300 died. Ahmedou Ould-Abdallah, the UN envoy to Somalia, tells me: "Somebody is dumping nuclear material here. There is also lead, and heavy metals such as cadmium and mercury - you name it." Much of it can be traced back to European hospitals and factories, who seem to be passing it on to the Italian mafia to "dispose" of cheaply. When I asked Ould-Abdallah what European governments were doing about it, he said with a sigh: "Nothing. There has been no clean-up, no compensation, and no prevention."

At the same time, other European ships have been looting Somalia's seas of their greatest resource: seafood. We have destroyed our own fish-stocks by over-exploitation - and now we have moved on to theirs. More than $300m worth of tuna, shrimp, lobster and other sea-life is being stolen every year by vast trawlers illegally sailing into Somalia's unprotected seas. The local fishermen have suddenly lost their livelihoods, and they are starving. Mohammed Hussein, a fisherman in the town of Marka 100km south of Mogadishu, told Reuters: "If nothing is done, there soon won't be much fish left in our coastal waters."..cont'd


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/johann-hari/you-are-being-lied-to-abo_b_155147.html


------


'Toxic waste' behind Somali piracy


By Najad Abdullahi

Some pirates operating off Somalia's coast claim to act as coastguards.

Somali pirates have accused European firms of dumping toxic waste off the Somali coast and are demanding an $8m ransom for the return of a Ukranian ship they captured, saying the money will go towards cleaning up the waste.

The ransom demand is a means of "reacting to the toxic waste that has been continually dumped on the shores of our country for nearly 20 years", Januna Ali Jama, a spokesman for the pirates, based in the semi-autonomous region of Puntland, said.

"The Somali coastline has been destroyed, and we believe this money is nothing compared to the devastation that we have seen on the seas."

The pirates are holding the MV Faina, a Ukrainian ship carrying tanks and military hardware, off Somalia's northern coast.

According to the International Maritime Bureau, 61 attacks by pirates have been reported since the start of the year.

While money is the primary objective of the hijackings, claims of the continued environmental destruction off Somalia's coast have been largely ignored by the regions's maritime authorities.

..cont'd

http://english.aljazeera.net/news/africa/2008/10/2008109174223218644.html

-------


UN: Nuclear Waste Being Released on Somalia's Shores After Tsunami

Nairobi
23 February 2005

A United Nations' report released this week says nuclear and hazardous wastes dumped on Somalia's shores had been scattered by the recent Asian tsunami and are now infecting Somalis in coastal areas.

A spokesman for the United Nations Environment Program (UNEP), Nick Nuttall, told VOA that for the past 15 years or so, European companies and others have used Somalia as a dumping ground for a wide array of nuclear and hazardous wastes.

"There's uranium radioactive waste, there's leads, there's heavy metals like cadmium and mercury, there's industrial wastes, and there's hospital wastes, chemical wastes, you name it,” he said. “It's not rocket science to know why they're doing it because of the instability there."

Mr. Nuttall said, on average, it cost European companies $2.50 per ton to dump the wastes on Somalia's beaches rather than $250 a ton to dispose of the wastes in Europe.

He said the Asian tsunami dislodged and smashed open the drums, barrels, and other containers, spreading the contaminants as far away as 10 or more kilometers inland.

Mr. Nuttall said it is impossible to know the exact tonnage or number of containers of wastes on Somalia's shores, but that the problem, in his words, "is very serious."

The results of the contamination on coastal populations, Mr. Nuttall says, have been disastrous.

cont'd

http://www.voanews.com/english/archive/2005-02/2005-02-23-voa23.cfm

----

From August of 1999!!!


Nuclear Waste Dumped on Somali Waters

There are reports of Nuclear Waste Dumping activities on Somali Waters (attach). This is yet another episode of the sad maritime situation in Somalia Waters. Lately, the illegal maritime activities have been on the rise, and there have been many cases of dead marine animals washing off at the coasts of Somalia, especially on the Indian Ocean side.

The General-Secretary of the UN suggested in Para 71 of his report - Report of the Secretary-General of the United Nations on the situation in Somalia- dated 16 Aug 1999 - that;

quote, " ....action could be taken by the international community to assist Somalia to recover its sovereignty in certain limited fields, for example the protection of offshore natural resources. Efforts could also be made to limit the introduction of illegal arms and weapons into the country...." , unquote

Somalia Watch Organization (SW) also made several news releases on the subject matter and can be read in our home page www.somaliawatch.org.

SW hopes that the security council and the international community will address this tragic situation by helping Somalia recover its sovereignty as a nation along the guidelines recommended by the General Secretary so that the nuclear and other toxic waste dumping in Somalia can be stopped...cont'd

http://www.somaliawatch.org/archive/990829501.htm

-----

Somali Waste Imports

1. The Issue

During the Somali civil war hazardous waste was dumped in this
African nation by industrialized countries. The alleged
perpetrators were Italian and Swiss firms who supposedly entered
into a contract with the Somali government to dump waste in the war
ravaged African nation. The issue of dumping in Somalia is two
fold in that it is both a legal question and a moral question.
First, is there a violation of international treaties in the
export of hazardous waste to Somalia. Second, is it ethically
questionable to negotiate a hazardous waste disposal contract with
a country in the midst of a protracted civil war and with a
government that can best be described as tenuous and factionalized?

2. Description

With the abdication of President Siad Barre in 1989, the
country of Somalia was thrown in a state of anarchy. The country
is currently ruled by a series of warlords each holding a small
section of the country. The rival factions have been at war with
each other since the mid-eighties and a mission by the United
Nations to stabilize the country has now ended in apparent
political failure. The war led to a serious famine that was solved
by the intervention. Less publicized was the exploitation of the
Somalian crisis by firms who specialize in the disposal of
hazardous waste.

In the fall of 1992 reports began to appear in the
international media concerning unnamed European firms that were
illegally dumping waste in Somalia. By most reports, several
thousand tons of waste, mostly processed industrial waste, had
already been dumped there. It was also reported that waste was
seen being dumped off the Somali coast into the Indian Ocean. To
further compound the country's environmental problems, a storage
facility in northern Somalia filled with pesticides had been
destroyed during the war. The spilt chemicals and resulting fire
poisoned one of the few sources of drinking water in the famine
ravaged country.

What caused controversy in 1992, however, was reports of a
contract established between a Swiss firm, Achair Partners, and an
Italian firm, Progresso, with Nur Elmy Osman, who claimed to be the
Somali Minister of Health under an interim government headed by Ali
Mahdi Muhammad. Osman had been a health official in the Barre
government, but allegedly was no longer recognized as a government
official by Ali Mahdi. Osman had supposedly entered into an $80
million contract in December of 1991, whereby the two firms would
be allowed to build a 10 million ton storage facility for hazardous
waste. The waste would first be burned in an incinerator to be
built on the same site and then stored in the facility at the rate
of 500,000 tons a year.

Reports of the alleged contract outraged the world community.
The United Nations Environment Programme (UNEP) investigated the
matter at the urging of Somalia's neighbors and the Swiss and
Italian governments. What ensued was a period of accusations as
both firms denied entering into any agreement, Osman denied signing
any contract and the Swiss and Italian governments said they had no
knowledge of the two firms activities.

As a result of the UNEP's investigation, the contract was
declared null and the facility was never built. Still it became
apparent to the UNEP's director Dr. Mustafa Tolba that the firms of
Achair Partners and Progresso were set up specifically as
fictitious companies by larger industrial firms to dispose of
hazardous waste. At one point Dr. Tolba declared that the UNEP was
dealing with a mafia...cont'd

http://www.american.edu/TED/somalia.htm




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opihimoimoi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-05-09 09:53 PM
Response to Original message
1. Critically important...we must do something...cannot be left to go on....
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lostnotforgotten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-05-09 09:56 PM
Response to Original message
2. Why Am I Not Surprised
eom
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Dover Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-05-09 10:00 PM
Response to Reply #2
5. Legal ramifications
Edited on Mon Jan-05-09 10:49 PM by Dover
'Mafia involvement'

However, Mustafa Tolba, the former UNEP executive director, told Al Jazeera that he discovered the firms were set up as fictitious companies by larger industrial firms to dispose of hazardous waste.

"At the time, it felt like we were dealing with the Mafia, or some sort of organised crime group, possibly working with these industrial firms," he said.


Nations have found it difficult to tackle
the problem of piracy

"It was very shady, and quite underground, and I would agree with Ould-Abdallah’s claims that it is still going on... Unfortunately the war has not allowed environmental groups to investigate this fully."

The Italian mafia controls an estimated 30 per cent of Italy's waste disposal companies, including those that deal with toxic waste.

In 1998, Famiglia Cristiana, an Italian weekly magazine, claimed that although most of the waste-dumping took place after the start of the civil war in 1991, the activity actually began as early as 1989 under the Barre government.

Beyond the ethical question of trying to secure a hazardous waste agreement in an unstable country like Somalia, the alleged attempt by Swiss and Italian firms to dump waste in Somalia would violate international treaties to which both countries are signatories.

Legal ramifications

Switzerland and Italy signed and ratified the Basel Convention on the Control of Transboundary Movements of Hazardous Wastes and their Disposal, which came into force in 1992.

EU member states, as well as 168 other countries have also signed the agreement.

The convention prohibits waste trade between countries that have signed the convention, as well as countries that have not signed the accord unless a bilateral agreement had been negotiated.

It is also prohibits the shipping of hazardous waste to a war zone.

Abdi Ismail Samatar, professor of Geography at the University of Minnesota, told Al Jazeera that because an international coalition of warships has been deployed to the Gulf of Aden, the alleged dumping of waste must have been observed.

http://english.aljazeera.net/news/africa/2008/10/2008109174223218644.html

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dixiegrrrrl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-05-09 09:59 PM
Response to Original message
3. Insane...making the land, sea and fish radioactive then sellling the fish.
The world has indeed gone quite mad.

To think that mercury was the main concern in seafood. They are dumping radioactive waste into the shallow part of the Indian Ocean! Has no one looked at a map????
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Dover Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-05-09 10:13 PM
Response to Reply #3
6. Saving a few bucks vs. LIFE on Earth.......hmmmm...gonna have to think about that one.
Edited on Mon Jan-05-09 10:17 PM by Dover
And beyond the broader disasterous effects to the planet, this is MURDER!
They have essentially done the equivalent of dropping a nuclear bomb on this region.
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Dover Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-05-09 09:59 PM
Response to Original message
4. This is what the 'clean' nuclear solution will get us. NO ONE wants the waste!
And for good reason. So we will see more and more illegal dumping.

I'm quite sure the nuclear industry wants to keep this VERY quiet.
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Laelth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-06-09 10:59 PM
Response to Reply #4
36. Nobody wants the wind turbines, either.
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Canuckistanian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-05-09 10:56 PM
Response to Original message
7. Those European factories and hospitals should be tracked down
And punished under the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea.
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Wilms Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-06-09 02:26 AM
Response to Original message
8. K&ARRRRRR! n/t
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FogerRox Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-06-09 04:00 AM
Response to Original message
9. I fail to see the connection between nuclear waste and pirates
I really think the concept is off the deep end.
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Dover Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-06-09 04:18 AM
Response to Reply #9
10. It's vigilantism - it's what happens when the government fails to do its job.
Edited on Tue Jan-06-09 04:54 AM by Dover
The coastal residents are sick from the toxins, as are their fish, and have had their waters, land and livelihoods destroyed.
Are they supposed to go quietly?


As the second article says -

While money is the primary objective of the hijackings, claims of the continued environmental destruction off Somalia's coast have been largely ignored by the regions's maritime authorities.

And I would add they are being ignored by the world at large.
The REAL pirates are the Swiss, Italian, Somali and other government/corporate officials and the mafia who are all complicit.
Their crime is so heinous there is no sentence severe enough to compensate and it makes these vigilantes look like Robin Hoods.

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Zodiak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-06-09 03:33 PM
Response to Reply #9
21. When the pirates were asked about why they were doing what they are doing
They stated that foreign vessels fishing their seas were starving them, and they would rather die fighting than watching their families starve.

So yeah...the connection was there if you bothered to look. Apparently you did not.
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FogerRox Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-06-09 06:18 PM
Response to Reply #21
27. Dumping nuke waste, factory fishing boats, and Piracy?
And.......
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razors edge Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-06-09 07:05 PM
Response to Reply #27
30. Starving and poisoned families. n/t
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pleah Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-06-09 10:52 AM
Response to Original message
11. K&R
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Greyskye Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-06-09 11:41 AM
Response to Original message
12. big kick & R
I had absolutely no clue about this. Stunning.
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Soylent Brice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-06-09 12:46 PM
Response to Original message
13. K&R!!
saw something on here yesterday regarding the toxic waste issue.

pretty fucked up. don't blame them one bit. when they jacked the saudi oil tanker you knew they were fucked. if there were ever a button to push that would get nations organized in a hunt, it would be fucking with their oil.
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Kajsa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-06-09 01:48 PM
Response to Original message
14. This is horrible!

Does Greenpeace, Earthwatch and the NRDC know
about this?

How about Oceana and the Cousteau Society?

This is the first I've heard of it.
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KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-06-09 02:23 PM
Response to Original message
15. Just when one thinks they can't be "outraged" anymore....something else like this
comes along and it's overwhelming in it's criminality and lack of concern for our Earth Planet...

Thanks for reposting this with the extra info. Although....what can we do about it. Or, anything, these days except weep. When will there ever be any accountability?
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Baby Snooks Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-06-09 02:25 PM
Response to Original message
16. We are all disposable...
Edited on Tue Jan-06-09 02:26 PM by Baby Snooks
Some of us are just more disposable than others. During the UNAIDS conference in 2001, one of the US representatives actually implied that AIDS was merely nature's way of controlling the population. I guess that's why Bush initially just wanted to distribute Bibles instead of condoms in Africa. Save their souls while they die from AIDS. Some will just glow to death I suppose from eating the fish.

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texastoast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-06-09 02:55 PM
Response to Original message
17. Sounds like art reflected life once again
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NJmaverick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-06-09 02:59 PM
Response to Original message
18. Yet more proof- Pictures of what the pirates look like
they have been mutated I tell you!!!!

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Kaleko Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-06-09 03:02 PM
Response to Original message
19. ...!
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balantz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-06-09 03:08 PM
Response to Original message
20. K&R! Keep tellin' it! n/t
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Norrin Radd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-06-09 03:52 PM
Response to Original message
22. kr
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L0oniX Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-06-09 04:54 PM
Response to Original message
23. Nothing new ...remember the atomic bomb tests out in the Pacific?
You know that shit did something.
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onethatcares Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-06-09 05:00 PM
Response to Original message
24. we no longer deserve this world.
the dumping in Somalia will come back to bite every other country on the globe in the backside. The planet is ruined and there is not turning back. Our children will never know what we once had and that's the very shame of it all.

It doesn't matter who is doing the dumping, the rest of the world is turning a blind eye to it.
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Cleita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-06-09 05:48 PM
Response to Original message
25. Thanks for bringing this to attention Dover.
Everyone needs to be informed about this.
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democrank Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-06-09 06:18 PM
Response to Original message
26. Thank you, Dover.
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scarletwoman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-06-09 06:30 PM
Response to Original message
28. I wish I could say, "Unbelievable!", but I can't. It's all too believable.
Thank you for posting this and making us aware of yet another outrage.

k&r,
sw
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blendermax Donating Member (112 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-06-09 07:04 PM
Response to Original message
29. I wonder how much this environmental destruction has contributed to the hunger problem in Africa
I would imagine quite a bit.

the irony is that the fish these fleets from Europe are illegally catching have probably been contaminated by the same nuclear waste they are illegally dumping into the Somali coast. Brilliant! I hope the fish kills them when they eat it. Now would that would be karma.

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ImOnlySleeping Donating Member (131 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-06-09 08:42 PM
Response to Reply #29
33. That is
a horrible thing to wish on anyone. Do you know where your food comes from?
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blendermax Donating Member (112 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-07-09 04:05 AM
Response to Reply #33
37. My apologies if it offends you
I don't think any fate is unwarranted for those who dump nuclear waste into the oceans.

Do you know how many hundreds if not thousands of lives, human and animal, that these dumpers have extinguished through their illegal activities? These people are murderers, plain and simple. They know this dumping will result in untold suffering and death but they do it anyway. These toxic waste dumpers are far more cruel than any Somali pirate.
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valerief Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-06-09 07:17 PM
Response to Original message
31. kick
:kick:
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mia Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-06-09 08:03 PM
Response to Original message
32. Expensive oil is to blame for ALL of this.
Europe has chosen Somalia as its dumping ground. Is it possible that Yucca Mountain is a safer alternative?

This issue surpasses all others.

Can we even go back to the Stone Age now?
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certainot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-06-09 09:28 PM
Response to Original message
34. thanks, heard it on hartmann, but please better headline
to those of us still with slow connections we have to be more selective and i would have missed the somali pirates as local heroes details if i hadn't got lucky.

maybe thom hatmann read it here!
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Laelth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-06-09 10:57 PM
Response to Original message
35. I am very suspicious of this OP.
Edited on Tue Jan-06-09 11:36 PM by Laelth
Why dump toxic nuclear waste on the coast of Somalia when, if you wanted to dump it illegally, you could dump it in the middle of the ocean and stand a much better chance of not getting caught? What this OP alleges is silly.

Of course, it's not a good idea to dump nuclear waste anywhere, but the idea that the Somali pirates seek vengeance for destroying their environment strains credulity.

:eyes:

Wind Power BLOWS.

See the following:
http://www.keepersoftheblueridge.com/faqs.html
http://www.nortexwind.org/index.htm
http://www.stopillwind.org/index.php
http://windconcernsontario.wordpress.com/
http://www.savewesternny.org/
http://www.epaw.org/

Or just watch this series of videos:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SNxvkrgoPLo&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_utFV2ukOtU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AOd5tSZF3A4&feature=related

There's more, but you get the idea. :)

The United States is a LIBERAL Country.

:dem:

-Laelth


Edit:Laelth--clarity.
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blendermax Donating Member (112 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-07-09 04:13 AM
Response to Reply #35
38. My guess is that they are dumping it the waste where it is most convenient to do so
and where they will be less likely to be caught.

Somalia has a dysfunctional government with no ability to monitor its coastline, so that seems like a good place for them to dump the waste.
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Nihil Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-07-09 06:20 AM
Response to Reply #38
39. Whilst I rarely agree with Laelth, this is an exception :-)
1) You are far less likely to be caught in the open ocean than close
to any coastline (cf the actions of the pirates themselves).


2) If I understand the "plot", the ships carrying radioactive waste
have sailed from "Europe" (France, Spain & Italy being the major
nations with suitable ports), across the Mediterranean, through the
Suez canal, across the Gulf of Suezz, all the way down the Red Sea,
through the Gulf of Aden and then dumped their contents just to wind up
the Somalians. Why? Specifically ...

2a) Why risk inspection during the Suez transit? (or do "they" claim
that those authorities are "in on the plot"?)

2b) Why not dump off the Saudi coast?

2c) Why not dump off the Sudan coast?

2d) Why not dump off the Eritrean coast?

2e) Why not dump off the Djibouti coast?

2f) Why not dump off the Yemeni coast?

2g) Why go to a country that has had US & UN peacekeeping forces present
during the time of the alleged dumping?

2h) All of the above save fuel compared to the journey to Somalia and so
achieve the same aim for lower cost. If fuel bills aren't a problem,
why not just continue into the Indian Ocean and dump without observers?

3) Even assuming for the moment that these ships from "Europe" didn't
want to dump their nasties in the Mediterranean (already one of the
most polluted patches of water around), why not turn right and head
into the Atlantic (as has been done many times in the past for other
non-nuclear illegal dumping).

In summary, this is *not* "dumping the waste where it is most convenient
to do so" (unless you are coming from Pakistan or India but, even then,
the "open ocean" option remains the safest & easiest).

I do not for a moment doubt that both organised crime and politicians
(yeah, yeah) are willing & capable of illegally dumping nuclear, chemical
and biohazardous waste but there is something in this particular story
that just doesn't ring true here.
:shrug:
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blendermax Donating Member (112 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-07-09 01:22 PM
Response to Reply #39
40. Maybe they did dump the waste in the open Atlantic ocean
Edited on Wed Jan-07-09 01:29 PM by blendermax
even so, the waste could easily leak from the barrels.

the ocean currents would eventually transport the waste towards shore, possibly end up washing up on the Somali coast, etc. if these reports of Somalis dying from radiation poisoning are true, how do you explain it?

you also have the alleged destruction of the Somali fishing habitat from the foreign fishing trawlers. either way, it would result in the destruction of livelihoods for Somalis who depend on the marine life for their living.



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Nihil Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-08-09 05:07 AM
Response to Reply #40
41. Have you looked at an atlas lately?
If sufficient "nuclear waste" was washing up in Somalia after being
dumped in the Atlantic, Africa would be one *VERY* sick continent
and there are certain parties in South Africa (at least) who would
not shirk from "explaining things" to any groups involved ...

I am not denying for a moment that the fish poaching that goes on
around the world (not just near Somalia) is disgraceful and should be
stopped immediately. I have no argument on that at all, especially when
the stolen fish is 1) industrially "harvested" (=over-fishing) and
2) often used not for primary food but to be minced up as a protein
ingredient for some other process.

Nor do I deny that there are suitably greedy & uncaring humans around
who would dump toxic waste anywhere for the sake of profit - the evidence
for that is far too easy to find.

I just question the accuracy of the "Europeans dumping nuclear waste
off Somalia" reports because, as presented, they do not make any kind
of sense (except as a hype/distraction tactic).
:shrug:
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blendermax Donating Member (112 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-08-09 01:20 PM
Response to Reply #41
42. All it takes is one barrel of nuclear waste to kill thousands

if they dumped a hundred barrels of the waste into the open sea, not all of them are going end up on a populated area of land, but some certainly would. all it takes is one to kill a whole lot of people.
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Nihil Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-08-09 08:56 PM
Response to Reply #42
47. Oh come on ...?
What is *your* definition of "one barrel of nuclear waste"?

We're either talking about highly radioactive heavy elements
(which are non-transportable as far as these timescales are
concerned) or trivially radioactive transportable rubbish
(which is not going to cause any of the hyped damage).

You are on a continent with a lot of highly radioactive heavy
elements. Unless you are in one of a *very* few locations,
you will probably not even be aware of it.

Similarly, if you've been to a hospital in the last few decades
or so, you will have been in relatively close proximity to a lot
of trivially radioactive rubbish - again, without being aware
of it (in most cases).

In both of the above examples, if you *are* aware of it, you would
know how little danger is involved.

At no point am I going to defend the dumping of toxic waste in the
sea nor am I going to pretend that humans are not sufficiently
greedy as to avoid polluting the planet when they can make a quick
profit. At the same time, I am not going to let this pointless
hype go unquestioned ... justifiably so from the response so far ...
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kristopher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-08-09 09:21 PM
Response to Reply #47
49. Some background
The person making the assertion of wasted dumping:
http://www.un.org/News/Press/docs/2002/SGA810.doc.htm

SECRETARY-GENERAL APPOINTS AHMEDOU OULD-ABDALLAH AS HIS SPECIAL REPRESENTATIVE FOR WEST AFRICA

The Secretary-General announced on 19 July the appointment of Ahmedou Ould-Abdallah (Mauritania) as his Special Representative for West Africa. Mr. Ould-Abdallah is currently the Executive Director of the Global Coalition for Africa, a Washington-based intergovernmental forum. He has served with the United Nations in a number of capacities, including as the Secretary-General’s Special Representative for Burundi and Special Coordinator for New and Renewable Sources of Energy and Energy Issues. Mr. Ould-Abdallah also held a number of positions with the Government of Mauritania, notably as Minister for Foreign Affairs and Cooperation and Ambassador to the United States.

Since 1968, he has served as Director-General of Mauritanian Industries; Minister of Commerce and Transportation; Ambassador to Belgium, Luxembourg and the Netherlands and to the European Economic Community; and General Director of the SociétéNationale Industrielle et Minière. Mr. Ould-Abdallah obtained a bachelor’s degree in economics and a Diploma in Graduate Studies from the University of Grenoble, France, in 1966. He received a Diploma in Advanced Studies in Economics from the University of Paris, as well as a Diploma in Graduate Studies in Political Science from the University of Paris, Sorbonne, in 1967.

Born on 21 November 1940, Mr. Ould-Abdallah has one son.


Also found a very similar story dated 6 months ago. You'll note the primary evidence dates from 2004 and the washing up of unidentified "hazardous waste containers washed up on Somali shores." The nature of the wastes is purely speculative, but it is part of an .

European Companies dump toxic wastes off Somalia Coast
Monday, July 28, 2008

The Somali coastal waters are not just infested with pirates in a state failing to enforce proper laws, they are used as a "dumping sea" for toxic wastes from some European countries. The concerns have been raised by the UN. More in this report published in Middle East Online

UNITED NATIONS - The UN special envoy for Somalia on Friday sounded the alarm about rampant illegal fishing and the dumping of toxic waste off the coast of the lawless African nation.

"Because there is no (effective) government, there is so much irregular fishing from European and Asian countries," Ahmedou Ould Abdallah told reporters.

He said he had asked several international non-governmental organizations, including Global Witness, which works to break the links between natural resource exploitation, conflict, corruption, and human rights abuses worldwide, "to trace this illegal fishing, illegal dumping of waste."

"It is a disaster off the Somali coast, a disaster (for) the Somali environment, the Somali population," he added.

Ould Abdallah said the phenomenon helps fuel the endless civil war in Somalia as the illegal fishermen are paying corrupt Somali ministers or warlords for protection or to secure fake licenses.

East African waters, particularly off Somalia, have huge numbers of commercial fish species, including the prized yellowfin tuna.

Foreign trawlers reportedly use prohibited fishing equipment, including nets with very small mesh sizes and sophisticated underwater lighting systems, to lure fish to their traps.

"I am convinced there is dumping of solid waste, chemicals and probably nuclear (waste).... There is no government (control) and there are few people with high moral ground," Ould Abdallah added.

Allegations of waste dumping off Somalia by European companies have been heard for years, according to Somalia watchers. The problem was highlighted in the wake of the 2004 Indian Ocean tsunami when broken hazardous waste containers washed up on Somali shores.

But world attention has recently focused on piracy off Somalia, which has taken epidemic proportions since the country sank into chaos after warlords ousted the late president Mohamed Siad Barre in 1991.

Piracy had come to a virtual halt under the rules of the Islamic Courts Union (ICU), who took strict measures against the pirates, but since Ethiopian troops helped oust the ICU, the phenomenon returned to Somali shores.

Somalia's coastal waters are now considered to be among the most dangerous in the world, with more than 25 ships seized by pirates there last year despite US navy patrols, according to the International Maritime Bureau.

Some Somali pirates have reportedly claimed to be acting as "coastguards" protecting their waters from illegal fishing and dumping of toxic waste.

Ould Abdallah cited the case of a Spanish trawler captured by pirates while illegally fishing for tuna off Somalia in April.

He said payment of a ransom for the release of the crew "was done in a very sophisticated manner" with the pirates arranging by phone "to be paid in Macau."

The Spanish government said in late April that it paid no ransom to secure the release of the crew of the Playa de Bakio after six days of captivity. But Andrew Mwangura of the Kenya chapter of the Seafarers Assistance Program then said a ransom of 1.2 million dollars (768,000 euros) was paid.

On Friday, Estonia urged the European Union to take stronger action against Somali pirates attacking cargo ships bound for Europe, after an Estonian sailor was held hostage for 41 days.

On Sunday pirates seized a 52,000-tonne Japanese vessel and its 21 crew members off the Somali coast.


http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM5gVV_gQDsp1m8v7nPcumVc5McYV-Q

And here may be the root of the "mafia" part of the narrative:

©AP Photo/Rebecca Blackwell
Mali's Pesticide Stockpile
For decades, Africa was a major dumping ground for toxic wastes. Since at least the early 1970s, there have been multiple cases of illicit toxic waste disposal deals among companies in Western nations and African countries. In 1987, for example, two Italian waste brokers, Gianfranco Raffaeli and Renato Pent, paid a Nigerian businessman, Sunday Nana, about $100 a month to store 18,000 drums of hazardous waste on his property in Nigeria. Nigerian officials discovered a cache of the illegal toxic waste, which contained high levels of PCB and dioxins, stored at the port of Koko. Regardless of how they got there, mountains of obsolete pesticides like DDT, aldrin and chlordane remain stockpiled in poorly maintained storage facilities across much of Africa. Mali and Botswana have reported especially large stockpiles of industrial chemicals discarded as long as 40 years ago.

http://www.gulfhypoxia.net/news/default.asp?XMLFilename=200812080959.xml

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Dover Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-08-09 09:56 PM
Response to Reply #49
50. Excellent articles...thanks for posting!...n/t
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Nihil Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-09-09 04:14 AM
Response to Reply #49
55. Thanks for that. (n/t)
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blendermax Donating Member (112 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-08-09 10:45 PM
Response to Reply #47
53. What are you trying to say?
what do you mean by "trivially radioactive transportable rubbish"

you think the danger of nuclear waste is so 'trivial' that its safe to simply dump it into the sea?

if nuclear waste is so harmless, why are there very specific strict rules in pace governing its handling and disposal? why does it have to be permanently sealed in air-tight steel drums and buried hundreds of feet underground, if the dangers are so 'trivial' as you put it?
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blendermax Donating Member (112 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-08-09 01:59 PM
Response to Reply #41
43. Another reason for dumping it near the coastline

if you dump the waste into the open sea, you never know where it might end up. the waste might even end back up in Europe, for example, due to the unpredictability of the ocean currents. if that happened it would be a huge natioanal scandal with resulting criminal investigations that would lead back to you, the perpetrator. but if the waste were to end up in some poor African country, then you are safe because the western media probably wouldn't care. does that make sense now?
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Dover Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-08-09 02:03 PM
Response to Reply #43
44. I'll bet those contaminated fish are ending up back in Europe and elsewhere...n/t
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Nihil Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-08-09 09:00 PM
Response to Reply #44
48. I think you posted your reply in the wrong place but anyway ...
... I *hope* those contaminated fish ended up back in Europe (or in the
homeland of whoever was illegally fishing those waters) as that way there
is a chance of tracking down the "fish pirates" and eliminating them.

If there is no contamination and no trace of "who did what" then the chances
of identifying & punishing those involved is pretty slim ... especially if
the fish caught are subsequently minced up and sold on as "protein sources"
for whatever downline processes package them up for consumers.
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Nihil Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-08-09 08:43 PM
Response to Reply #43
46. "does that make sense now?"
No.

I agree that the Western media (as a whole) doesn't care about anything
in Africa but still disagree with your fragile premise that "they" could
have dumped "nuclear waste" in the Atlantic and somehow only affected
the people in Somalia ("some poor African country").

You seem to be totally lacking in any understanding of the nature of
"nuclear waste". For example, if it is producing enough short-term
radiation as to affect some poor fishermen, by definition it is not
going to end up there through years of drifting ocean currents.

To take your opening quote in full:
> if you dump the waste into the open sea, you never know where it
> might end up.

Any "nuclear waste" emitting sufficient radiation to affect some poor
sod innocently fishing in the sea is not going to drift around a
major continent.

Alternatively, you fear that you might not know where your dumped waste
will end up "due to the unpredictability of the ocean currents"? Try looking
into oceanography to give you a clue about the nature of ocean currents.
Again, I am *not* defending the (international) practice of dumping barrels
of toxic waste into the abyssal plains of the ocean but I (and they) understand
the timescales involved in the transport of any subsequently emitted pollutants.
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blendermax Donating Member (112 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-08-09 10:20 PM
Response to Reply #46
52. I don't know what you're trying to say,
but you're making no sense whatsoever.
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Nihil Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-09-09 04:10 AM
Response to Reply #52
54. Never mind then.
I made two assumptions when I first replied to you:
1) I was talking to someone with a knowledge of English.
2) I was talking to someone with a knowledge of geography.

Both were apparently incorrect so I apologise for confusing you.
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blendermax Donating Member (112 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-09-09 04:25 AM
Response to Reply #54
56. You have no knowledge of either of those things

nor of any of the facts, and are constantly contradicting yourself. first you state there is no nuclear waste being dumped into the oceans, then you claim that there is but that it is safe and harmless to do so. So which is it?

and if its so safe, why don't you you go take a swim in a pool of nuclear waste and see what happens to you?
do you know why there are international laws against the dumping of nuclear waste into the sea? are you at least intelligent enough to figure out that much>

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Nihil Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-09-09 05:25 AM
Response to Reply #56
58. It is apparent that I have a greater knowledge of both than you do ...
... so my suggestion to you is
1) Learn how to read.
2) Learn how to use an atlas.
3) Learn how to assess the difference between high level nuclear
waste and low level nuclear waste.
4) Learn how ocean circulation works (volumes, timescales, locations).
5) Go back and read the thread to enlighten yourself about your mistakes.

Alternatively, just stick with the jumble of hype and untruth that
you've been plying all along. Your choice.
:shrug:
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blendermax Donating Member (112 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-09-09 10:38 AM
Response to Reply #58
59. Learn the English language and some common sense

Meanwhile, here's a lesson on international maritime law:

It is against the law to dump any nuclear waste into the sea, period.
Regardless of the supposed 'level' of radioactivity.



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Dover Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-08-09 10:03 PM
Response to Reply #39
51. I don't understand the point of your argument. The waste IS being dumped
Edited on Thu Jan-08-09 10:08 PM by Dover

off the coast of Somalia, whether you think it's smart or not ( or too inefficient or obvious a way to do it). And much of it washed up on shore during the tsunami a few years back. It's been going on for over two decades and has been documented, as has the disasterous environmental and health effects.

Please read the articles and links provided.

So what is your point?
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Nihil Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-09-09 05:15 AM
Response to Reply #51
57. As I said originally ...
>> I do not for a moment doubt that both organised crime and politicians
>> (yeah, yeah) are willing & capable of illegally dumping nuclear, chemical
>> and biohazardous waste

In addition, I have repeatedly agreed that the illegal fishing by foreign
concerns is a dreadful problem that needs to be stopped a.s.a.p., not just
in Somalia but all around the world.

I was just questioning some of the commentary that varied between
pointless hype and total BS (in the case of certain other posters).
Hence my original comment:

>> ... but there is something in this particular story that just doesn't
>> ring true here.

e.g.,
From the OP:
> It is the equivalent of dropping a nuclear bomb on this region.

Yeah, right. That line rings out as simple hype which tends to set
my cynicism off.

> And this is probably not the ONLY incident of dumping toxic waste in
> our oceans.

There is plenty of evidence showing that this is NOT the only incident.
Not defending it or denying it but when the obvious was stated here
as if it was a revelation, it again weakens the support for this case.

> How much of the destruction to our oceans being reported as due to global
> warming is in fact the result of this toxic dumping???

Next to none as I haven't heard anyone blaming radioactive or heavy metal
pollution on global warming. Again, this strikes me as panic-mongering
which detracts from the important stuff on this topic.


Anyway, as you say, *something* is being dumped by *someone* off the
coast of Somalia and this needs to stop - regardless of the details
involved. On that point, I have no disagreement whatsoever.
:hi:

FWIW, my suggestion for achieving this would be to flag the toxicity
of the fish being illegally poached so requiring governments to act
to trace the *source* of all fish landed (thus drawing attention to
the illegal fishermen hence the need for regulation/action here)
as well as the *source* of the underlying pollution (thus drawing
attention to the dumpers and the need for an international cleanup).
Domestic health scares (especially "Poisons in our food!!" ones) seem
to get more results than "some brown people dying somewhere" reports
so maybe it will bring the message home.
:think:
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blendermax Donating Member (112 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-09-09 10:46 AM
Response to Reply #51
60. Don't bother trying to decipher his mumbo jumbo
he claims the nuclear waste is safe and harmless, and in the same breath says he agrees the dumping must be stopped. if its so harmless, then why must it be stopped? at the same time, he denies the dumping is even taking place. WTF?



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Dover Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-08-09 02:09 PM
Response to Original message
45. U.S. Navy creates force devoted to fighting pirates
Edited on Thu Jan-08-09 02:11 PM by Dover
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KakistocracyHater Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-10-09 08:42 PM
Response to Original message
61. wow........what a nightmare.....
why don't they mix tons of lead dust in with the concrete & store it in that & put that in a desert somewhere? I keep hearing how the Europeans are SO much better & environmentally conscious than the US is, but they're not. I DO think that someone will invent a way to house something that emits radiation for a million years+; because of the medical "red bag" waste it is a desparately needed invention. People kind of laugh, but inventing new methods of dealing with waste is needed, in some countries people don't even have garbage collection services & would think it crazy, others would not believe that people grow food for birds & sell the seeds-but this is normal here.

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