Nissan's "Pure Electric" Car To Debut In Tennessee Next Year

[wtmusic]

"A Nissan official said Monday in Chattanooga that a "pure electric" vehicle with a 100-mile range between charges will debut late next year.

Mark Perry, director of product planning and strategy for Nissan Americas, said Tennessee will be one of the launch locations.

He spoke at the Doubletree Hotel at a luncheon sponsored by the Chattanooga Engineers Club, the Chattanooga Technology Council, the Tennessee Society of Professional Engineers, the American Society of Quality, the Society of Women Engineers and IEEE.

Mr. Perry said the debut of the new EV is 17 months away."

http://www.chattanoogan.com/articles/article_144861.asp

100 mile range and a charge time of 26 minutes!? If it lives up to hype - wow.

[Trajan]

1. Non union jobs in a stridently anti liberal state ....

I can hear the Pabst cans clinking now ....

[TreasonousBastard]

2. Questions...

What's it gonna cost?

What is the electric hookup in my garage for that 400 amp charging circuit gonna cost?

What's the real mileage on a day like tomorrow when it will be close to freezing with wet snow around here? (Will it even get me to the dealer 20 miles down the road?)

[zeemike]

5. 400 amp charging circuit?

You must want to charge it in 5 minuets.

[Kolesar]

6. 12 Volt DC * 400 Amp => 5000 Watts, the power of a space heater

I have no idea how many Watt*hours it would take to charge an automobile. Maybe 8 kW*hour?

[zeemike]

8. A little problem with your math there

It is not 12v DC it is 240v AC that comes from the grid.
And electric furnace is on a 50 amp breaker and so is an electric range and an electric furnace will heat your whole house and the range will cook your turkey while having 4 pots on the stove....and all with less than 100 amps.
When you charge the 12V dc battery you step the 240v ac down and rectify it to Dc

[wtmusic]

13. A rough guess would be 40kWh

The Volt will store 16kWh and deliver about 40 all-electric miles. My car has about the same specs.

[Kolesar]

17. So, $2.00 for a 40 mile commute, whereas my minivan would cost $8.00

$6.00/day savings * 220 commutes/year = $1320.00 "fuel" savings/year.

My commute is 26 miles and I carpool, so the data is way different. thanks for the data

[wtmusic]

18. Yep

Not to mention, many people can plug in at work. My wife commutes with our electric car (32 miles) and recharges at work - so she gets half of her "gas" for free.

I'm sure the Nissan will be AC with regen braking and either NiMH or Li-Ion batteries, whereas ours is just a DC homebuilt and not very efficient. Nonetheless, I've calculated that we use it for 80% of our driving.

Electric cars are practical.

[TreasonousBastard]

9. OK. I didn't work it out but since you insist...

using some assumptions and minor rounding...

100HP=75kW.

Batteries recharge when at 25%, so 56kW for a recharge.

56kW for a half hour is 112kWH.

112kW at 220V=510A

That's even worse than I first guessed, and doesn't take, heat, rectifier, and other losses into account. It also takes one hell of a cable to run that kind of juice. Even if I'm wrong by a factor of 2, all those homes with 200 amp service would need an upgrade so they wouldn't have to turn the fridge off during charging time.

[zeemike]

11. But your assumptions are wrong.

You assume 100HP which is what you would need for a gas engine to run a car.
A 2hp electric motor will do the trick because the advantage of electric motors is hi torque.
Do you know that diesel locomotives run on electric motors? They use the diesel motors to generate the juice and the motors to pull the train...Why? because they have high torque.

[TreasonousBastard]

12. Torque and horespower are two different things...

and while it might only take 10-20 HP (a vacuum cleaner is around one HP, btw) to move a car at highway speeds with a decent tailwind, cars tend to do things like pass, climb hills, accelerate from stoplights and entrance ramps, and other things that require power.

The amount of power needed to accelerate or maintain motion is the same, whether it's gas, diesel, electric, or a bigass sail. Electric motors can deliver that power more efficiently because they don't have the heat losses of internal combustion engines, but the power still has to be there.

[zeemike]

16. Here is a question that was asked that might help

How can I calculate how many horses or kw for a particular vehicle conversion?

I would like to put an AC motor right in front of the differential of my Ford 350.

Hi, Jose!
With electric motors, horsepower varies with the voltage and amps you give it. So with your big daddy truck, you'd better be thinking large voltage, maybe twice as much as the usual 144v system you see with a lighter conversion - and a whole lotta batteries. As far as kilowatts go, there's peak kw and there's continuous kw rating. The motor you're looking for is the AC55 from Solectria, sold by Electro Automotive. It's rated at 78(peak) /34(continuous) at 312v.

Good luck with your project, Jose!

Regards,
Lynne

By comparison your average refrigerator compressor is rated at 1/4 to 1/3hp and your AC system compressor at about 1hp unless it is very large and then it might be 1 1/2 hp

[wtmusic]

14. You're confusing units of power and energy

The car won't have the capacity to deliver 100HP for a half hour straight, and won't need to (a subcompact can cruise at highway speeds using only 30-40HP). So the actual capacity will probably be more like 40kWh.

The Chevy Volt's battery pack holds only 16kWh.

[TreasonousBastard]

20. Whoa! Total power available is in kilowatts...

usage is in kilowatt hours.

Using the batteries until they are dry uses up kilowatts-- the amount of time it takes is kilowatt hours.

But, just using 16kW (hours or not) it's still 32 kilosomethings for a half hour charge and, neither Ohm's nor Kirchoff's laws having been repealed, that's still 145 amps for a half hour charge at 220V.

OK, knock off 25% for the residual charge in the batteries and it's still 110 amps plus whatever losses are in the rectifier circuits.

So, ask your electrician what the wiring and a 120-150 amp breaker in the garage will cost.

[wtmusic]

27. Again, you're confused.

Watts are a measurement of joules/second, and "total power" of a battery makes no more sense than calculating the "total power" of a 60-watt light bulb. Watts are the rate of energy usage.

The "hours" part is important: drain a battery 16kW for one second, and you've only used up .0044 kWh of energy. To replace it won't take "32 kilosomethings for a half-hour charge", but only 8.8/220 = .04 amps in a 220V circuit for one-half hour.

[TreasonousBastard]

28. Got that definition from Wiki, didja...

but while us oldtimers understand the need for that sort of thing we usually just use the ancient volts times amps definition, 'cause it works for most things we do.

Like a lot of other things, watts can be used, if clumsily, as a measure of energy storage, much as the "600 amp-hours" you see on a car battery. That's the way I'm using them, without any confusion at all. It's not the sort of thing an engineer would do in a design, but does give a good approximation.

Your example is a little strange since you're talking about just one second of battery use, which would take a very short recharge.

What I would like to know, from people who know what they're talking about, is how one might use three phase 220 more efficiently by utilizing the phases and waveforms similar to how a switching power supply works in lower power applications. I suspect that's the trick, but while I know a lot about pullup resistors and milliamp loads, I don't know much about high power applications.

[wtmusic]

29. Fair enough

and I agree that whatever way you slice it there is going to have to be a lot of electricity flowing through the cable to recharge that car in under 1/2 hour, and you would need a new panel installed.

Unless it's hype, and it certainly wouldn't be the first time.

[Hoopla Phil]

3. So, how do those of us that live in apartments charge it?

[TreasonousBastard]

21. Most likely charging stations, but...

while waiting for them, out here electricity is almost 20 cents per kWh and even if you hve the wiring and setup, you'll pay a bundle, almost as much as gas, after having paid a premium for the car.

And, I keep asking how about how much the heater reduces the range but get no answers. Short, rainy or snowy days aup this way also mean wipers and lights are on a lot, further reducing the range. Maybe I could put a little wood fireplace in the back seat...

I now go 40 miles on 3 bucks worth of gas in a car that's long ago paid for-- I think I'd pay a lot more than that for an electric car.

[kristopher]

23. You are just chock full of incorrect information, aren't you?

The average RETAIL price for electricity in the US is about 10 cents per KWh, not 20 cents.

That sort of gross error pretty much sums up the quality of your entire series of posts.

[TreasonousBastard]

30. Why would,I care what the average price is when...

I'm paying twice that? I was talking about MY bill, not yours, and simply saying that a plugin electric car makes no sense at all for a lot of people around here.

Anything incorrect about that?

Now, there are the lucky few who have installed solar and other alternative energy gadgets and gizmos and they pay little or nothing when the sun is shining. I know several people out here who average 5-10 bucks a month rather than the 150 or so most of us pay, and they would do well with a plugin, if they could get the range. I don't own this place, however, so there's not a lot I could do about that. Besides, two or three days a week I drive over a hundred miles for work, and 50 isn't unusual for the other days.

[kristopher]

25. .0825 cents X 16 kwh = $1.32 for 40 miles

.0825 cents / kwh is the price on my electric bill.

[madrchsod]

4. 17 months? good luck finding customers....

you think the auto companies would realize no one will have enough money to buy new cars. if they had the money they could`t find the credit.

i guess they have to do something to give their stockholders some hope the company is`t going bankrupt

[diane in sf]

32. If the price isn't insane it would be a good investment, electric motors require a

lot less maintenance, the gasoline supply is not increasing. If I could get a car that I could charge at night or later with solar power, with minimal maintenance costs, it would help me fix costs for my old age.

[GreenGreenLimaBean]

7. This is what GM should be doing...

They are sticking a gas engine on board that add weight and cost, when they should be getting out of the gasoline engine business for good....Pure EVs will potentially require 1/10 the maintenance of a vehicle with a gas engine...

[wtmusic]

15. You hit the nail on the head.

I imagine right about now GM engineers are scratching their heads wondering how the hell they're going to move an overweight car with an underpowered electric motor or an underpowered gasoline motor - but not both together.

[kristopher]

24. Options

Basic configuration on the prototype is with an engine and the extended range it provides. If you want to dispense with the engine and have a limit of 100-150 miles between charging, it can easily be accomplished. I predict the basic vehicle will be as now advertised, but an electric only model will also be optional.

They are facing two obstacles that apply to the problem: the cost of batteries and the availability of batteries. As more battery production comes on line, both issues should recede.

[CRF450]

26. Sure you wouldn't have to have oil changes...

But theirs ALOT of other stuff on a car that requires maintenance somewhere down the road. You still got wheel bearings, suspension components etc etc... And then some faulty part is pop up for a recall, hell even the bearings on the electric motor itself would have to be replaced after so many miles. Any car is vulnerable to these issue, doesn't matter is its an electric car or not.

[wtmusic]

31. A lot less maintenance

Oil changes, oil filters, spark plugs, fuel injectors, starters, alternators, coolant, radiators, mufflers, belts, air filters...

How often do you replace the bearings on an internal combustion engine? Probably never, as the engine would likely be completely rebuilt by that time if it was even worthwhile to do so.

The big expense, of course, is batteries every 2-4 years. Other than that it's shocks, brake pads, and brushes on the motor every 80K miles or so. That's about it.

[Greyskye]

10. Hope they're not just blowing electrons

Those are pretty aggressive specs:

• "a real car" that will seat up to five people and have standard amenities.
  
• "pure electric" vehicle with a 100-mile range between charges
  
• A fast charge takes 26 minutes
  

Just on the face of it, this indicates a more 'advanced' EV than others I've seen that are in the works. Can they keep the price-point down far enough that it will be competitive? :shrug:

[jsamuel]

19. cost?

that is the big question

[DCKit]

22. Yep. It's all about the initial cost.

Less than $25K and it would make sense for a whole lot of people, myself included. At $15K, it'd work for nearly everyone - but only after enough of them got out there to murder all the stupid, oft repeated, willfully ignorant misconceptions.