Based on 2009/10 Models, Is Prius Still The Greenest Car In The Land?

[Dover]

For those having to purchase a car between now and this time next year, what is the greenest choice available on the market(within reason re: price and availability)? Will there be any surprises when the 2010 models are rolled out this September? Things seems so iffy all around in the automobile industry, climate issues, the economy, etc., but we still need to drive so what's the best choice right now?

Is it worth it to wait until NEXT September to buy? What's in the pipeline?

I recall the auto industry advertising a decade ago that the new fuel cell cars would be released in 2010. That was the magic year and the promise for the green auto revolution. HA! Hope you weren't holding your breath.

[Taverner]

1. Well, other than a Tesla or Volt

[s-cubed]

2. Just bought a 2009 Prius - didn't thnk changes where worth

wait and extra cost.

[Dover]

14. Congrats! Is there any room to bargain price on a Prius or is demand too high?

I know there are all kinds of "how to" websites that explain how to reduce the price of your
new car, but wonder if that applies to Prius?

[OKIsItJustMe]

3. (Assuming the previous Prius was…)

I think the Honda hybrids suffered because of people's "Prius envy" where people "knew" that "Prius⇒Hybrid" and assumed "Hybrid⇒Prius."

The best selling car in Japan right now is the Honda Insight™:
http://www.reuters.com/article/GCA-GreenBusiness/idUSTRE54A08I20090511

However, the Prius may be a better car:
http://www.popularmechanics.com/blogs/automotive_news/4309705.html


The greenest car is probably a bicycle.

[depakid]

4. "The greenest car is probably a bicycle."

Healthiest too.

[Dover]

5. Probably more white than green.

I thinked I'd probably be dead after the first 40 miles pedaling in 101 degree heat
here in Texas. Particularly if I was also hauling kids, pets, groceries and that piece of furniture I bought at the thrift store that I was gonna refurbish, over hill and dale. But hey, the first 39 miles would probably make for a great workout! RIP.

[kristopher]

6. Wait if you can

...unless you want to buy to support the economy.

It takes a lot of energy to make an automobile so deferring a purchase usually has a significant green side to it. Also, most of the manufacturers are aiming to have their new generation of autos on the market by 2011, so the 2010 selection for that sort of car might be somewhat lean.

If you do wait, make sure you know the difference between a series hybrid and a parallel hybrid and all the iterations of drive trains in between. For my part, I'm waiting for something like the Volt, which is a series hybrid, and I expect to make a purchase around 2012/2013.

Roughly speaking you can use this as a general guide: for an average 15K/yr driver, a car that uses electricity from the grid for most of the miles driven (which a series hybrid with a 40+ miles range on a single charge should accomplish for most people) has the same carbon emissions footprint as an ICE that gets about 46 mpg.

[Dover]

12. Is the Prius a series or parallel hybrid?

So you're recommending an ICE?

What do you think will be the most significant change between now and 2012 (not that I can wait that long).

[kristopher]

13. Here is a quick reference

http://www.hybridcenter.org/hybrid-center-how-hybrid-cars-work-under-the-hood-2.html

The Prius is covered at the conclusion. The best system will depend on your driving conditions and, over time, the state of battery technology. If you can't wait and your needs haven't changed, perhaps you could duplicate your Civic.

Edited to correct: That would be Tumbulu's Civic. Note that the mileage quoted in that post might be over the road and no passengers or cargo.

[Dover]

15. Thanks for the info.

My driving is about half and half at this point. Long commute and then a lot of intown.
I hope to use car travel as a substitute for plane travel for some trips as well.

[Dover]

16. dupe post...n/t

[NNadir]

7. It is um, well, oxymoronic to use the words "green" and "car" in the same sentence.

How anyone can imagine that hurling tons of metal down a highway at 100 kph can possibly be "green," shows how ridiculous the bourgeois sense of "green" is.

[Dover]

9. True enough. And just as silly as calling nuclear power or clean coal green.

So, what's your recommendation?

[NNadir]

17. It is not "just as silly."

Nuclear power is clearly the least obnoxious form of energy there is.

It is the only form of scalable energy where almost all of its external costs can be physically contained at the site where the energy conversion was formed, indefinitely.

It is the only exajoule form of energy in this country - indeed 10 exajoule scale - that has operated without inducing significant death.

Let me know when cars meet this standard.

Coal is not green or clean since there is no technical means of containing its wastes for even one day.

Coal kills continously during normal opeartions, as does automobiles.

You are comparing apples and oranges.

[Dover]

10. dupe post..n/t

[Tumbulu]

8. The Honda Civic Hybrid

that I bought in 2007 is averaging 48 mpg- but that is only because when i bought new tires the mpg went down from 52. But both are good and the Civic is cheaper that the Prius. But I mostly drive back farm roads and not in town stuff.

The Union of Concerned Scientists have a place on their website where you can describe the kind of driving you do and then they calculate the carbon emission and mpg based on your habits on all the major cars. This is how I chose the Civic, it had a significantly lower in carbon footprint than the Prius for my type of driving.

[Dover]

11. Hmmm....good point. Thanks for the UOCS info. I'll check it out...n/t

[TreasonousBastard]

18. Meh! For around 25 grand you can get a diesel Jetta...

giving you the same mileage or better from a mixture of corn oil, diesel fuel, and snot without the extra motor and battery or the environmental consequences of manufacturing or disposing either of them.

Of course, when this question comes up no one ever bothers to ask just how many gallons of whatever will be saved by the particular driver involved. Driving 10 miles to work and back every day with one 30 mile trip over the weekend and one 300 mile trip a year for vacation and you can get a Hummer and not break the bank in fuel costs.

Calculate your five year costs of ownership, including depreciation, insurance, expected warranty work, etc. When doing that, calculate the gallons of fuel used by each car for the intended amount and type of driving. Betcha you'll be amazed at how little fuel most people save in real life in a hybrid vs, something else.

Even when I was driving 50-60,000 miles a year, it made absolutely no sense to trade in my 35mpg car for a 45mpg Prius. The fuel savings were only a few hundred bucks a year, and would take forever to pay the net 15 grand or so to trade in my car for the Prius. Besides, I couldn't fit enough stuff in the Prius anyway.

Something like a Versa would have made much more sense if it existed back then.