Dutch offshore wind farm under construction

[pscot]

This was posted over at Dkos by Jerome a Paris; interesting pictures of a work in progress.

"..... a visit of the port site in Zeebrugge where the foundations for the Belwind offshore wind farm ...... have been stored before their installation ......a glimpse of the kind of logistics that entails and what kind of problems can happen (and how they are solved)."

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2010/1/24/829699/-There-is-(offshore-wind-powered)-light-at-the-end-of-the-tunnel!

[louis-t]

1. I keep hearing about problems with birds.

Is this a common problem? Is it insurmountable?

[pscot]

2. Depends on who you listen to

On the one hand, there's some environmental hysteria being generated. On the other you have proponents who say it's a non-issue. I'm not sure there's a definitive answer.

[Tesha]

3. I think the truth is that it used to be a significant problem with the earlier, high-speed rotor...

designs, but is significantly reduced with the modern, very-large-diameter
but relatively low-RPM rotor designs.

House cats are probably a much bigger threat to bird populations.

Tesha

[greenman3610]

6. house cats are indeed a much, much bigger problem

so is urban sprawl, probably the number one issue.

[cutlassmama]

8. Cats aren't a problem. This is offshore...in the water...where cats can't go

[Tesha]

11. I was speaking about over-all threats to bird populations.

And yes, overall, cats are assessed to be a bigger problem than
wind turbines. I'm sorry if that gores your oxe.

Tesha

[malakai2]

4. Depends

It's a problem for some species of birds and not a problem for others. It's a problem in some specific locations and not in others. Actually transporting the electricity generated by the turbines is a problem sometimes but not other times.

I don't know enough about this system and the local species to assess the relative risk to, say, a storm petrel posed by a wind farm planted in it's feeding habitat versus a cat in someone's backyard on the mainland.

[greenman3610]

5. It is not a problem.

The National Audobon society has looked at the research:
"National Audubon Society President John Flicker is an outspoken supporter of wind energy. In a column he wrote for the November-December 2006 issue of the Society’s magazine, he stated that Audubon "strongly supports wind power as a clean alternative energy source" and pointed to the threat global warming poses to birds and other wildlife. (A major scientific study in 2004 concluded that global warming, if left unchecked, could lead to the extinction of more than one million species of plants and animals by 2050.)"
http://www.awea.org/newsroom/releases/AWEA_Statement_on_NAS_Study_05032007.html

the National Academy of Science studied the issue of wind energy impacts and found:

"Development of wind power is on an upswing, particularly in the past seven years. Out of a total
of perhaps 1 billion birds killed annually as a result of human structures, vehicles and activities, somewhere between 20,000 and 37,000 died
in 2003 as a result of collisions with wind-energy facilities."
http://dels.nas.edu/dels/rpt_briefs/wind_energy_final.pdf

The largest increment of those bird kills were incurred at a single poorly sited facility at Altamont pass in California, where
older designs with smaller and much more numerous turbines are very different from sites currently being developed.

Studies in Denmark on offshore facilities show essentially no impact on seabirds.

[malakai2]

7. And that last bit is the only part that matters for this project

"Studies in Denmark on offshore facilities show essentially no impact on seabirds."

Specific study in pretty much the same environment, comparing species' mortality sources apples to apples. If that's in fact what they show. A bit hard to take Mr. Flicker's statement without a large grain of salt, very hard to apply the NAS review in any meaningful way to any particular project.

I'd like to know whether Mr. Flicker views turbines as a meaningful part of displacing fossil fuels at the existing electricity use rates in the near term. That's what he's implying. The other possibility is that he foresees a future of much lower use rates, where generation is accomplished in large part by turbines. Good luck either 1) replacing enough fossil fuel generation to put a check on climate change, or 2) convincing/forcing people to use significantly less electricity.

As for the NAS review, it doesn't provide a meaningful species breakdown, search methods and models applied are not standardized, and that makes it pretty much useless except as a very rough starting point sort of guide. I could offer up a number of southeast Asian vultures, and there the biggest mortality source is unchecked use of a particular class of pesticides on cattle. Or whooping cranes, where the known problem is transmission lines, particularly unmarked transmission lines adjacent to roosting habitat. For piping plovers on certain beaches, it's house cats, on other beaches, it's people with ATVs and pickup trucks, and on other beaches, it's native predators or even the weather.

[kristopher]

10. What is your solution to climate change?

Experts around the world have concluded that wind power is the best place to start with our effort to transition to a renewable grid. As other renewable technologies ramp up they will become larger parts of the solution. In total and considering all factors we are going to reduce our on the world around us substantially by moving to a totally renewable energy infrastructure. It is the fastest way to accomplish the goal and it is the most sustainable once we've made the transition.

Since climate change is a train wreck in the making, if you actually give a crap about the wildlife you purport to be speaking for, you'll have an answer that is better than what you are trying to shoot down; so let's hear it.

[louis-t]

12. Thanks, great info. It appears not using wind power

could be a greater threat than using it.

[NNadir]

9. Again? It seems to me that the Dutch used windmills for about 400 years and then switched to...

...diesel.

What gives do ya' think?

You'd think they'd consider past experience, particularly since they will be among the first to be submerged...

I'm sure though, as the country fills up, it will be a wonderful chance for a one time use of tidal power, although strictly put, trying to pump the water out using water that flows in would be a violation of the second law of thermodynamics, a perpetual motion machine.

But we don't need no stinking laws of thermodynamics...

[phantom power]

13. "one time use of tidal power"

:rofl:

[Javaman]

14. Wow, just wow.

That is a ocean full of ignorance going on there.