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kristopher (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-05-10 12:39 AM Original message |
Four Nuclear Myths |
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joshcryer (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-05-10 12:40 AM Response to Original message |
1. You've posted this many times. |
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kristopher (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-05-10 12:43 AM Response to Reply #1 |
2. it is worth posting many more times... |
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joshcryer (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-05-10 12:47 AM Response to Reply #2 |
4. Well, clouding the debate is your forte, Taos Eddy. |
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kristopher (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-05-10 12:59 AM Response to Reply #4 |
9. Do you understand what stalking is? |
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joshcryer (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-05-10 01:15 AM Response to Reply #9 |
12. Thanks. |
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Dead_Parrot (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-05-10 12:59 AM Response to Reply #1 |
10. True, but some jokes never get old. |
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greenman3610 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-05-10 12:44 AM Response to Original message |
3. apparently it needs to be posted, because some people still don't get it. |
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joshcryer (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-05-10 12:48 AM Response to Reply #3 |
5. I've been hammered with disinformation by the OP for months now. |
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kristopher (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-05-10 12:56 AM Response to Reply #5 |
7. Actually pronuclear people tend to be in the "More Coal, Drill Here Drill Now" camp |
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joshcryer (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-05-10 01:14 AM Response to Reply #7 |
11. The environmentalist liberals on this forum are not properly represented in that poll. |
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joshcryer (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-05-10 03:11 AM Response to Reply #7 |
17. And it's insulting that you'd malign them by implying that they're RWers. |
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Nederland (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-05-10 12:55 AM Response to Original message |
6. This is not a peered reviewed paper |
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kristopher (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-05-10 12:58 AM Response to Reply #6 |
8. Really? Perhaps you could provide some of those papers? |
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Nederland (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-05-10 01:18 AM Response to Reply #8 |
13. Glad to |
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kristopher (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-05-10 01:34 AM Response to Reply #13 |
14. I'd suggest you read the Lovins paper, as usual you are arguing a strawman |
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Nederland (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-05-10 01:49 AM Response to Reply #14 |
15. Yes they do challenge Lovin's argument |
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kristopher (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-05-10 10:40 AM Response to Reply #15 |
26. Actually this is what Lovins' says |
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Nederland (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-05-10 11:33 AM Response to Reply #26 |
30. You are simply wrong |
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kristopher (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-05-10 11:35 AM Response to Reply #30 |
32. ROFLMAO |
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Nederland (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-05-10 12:00 PM Response to Reply #32 |
37. I see |
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kristopher (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-05-10 12:16 PM Response to Reply #37 |
41. See bold |
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Nederland (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-05-10 12:31 PM Response to Reply #41 |
44. Responded to in Post #43 (nt) |
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Statistical (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-05-10 12:42 PM Response to Reply #30 |
46. It is even worse. |
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Name removed (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-05-10 12:53 PM Response to Reply #46 |
50. Deleted message |
joshcryer (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Apr-08-10 04:35 PM Response to Reply #46 |
101. You must also consider that AGW leads to less wind variablity. |
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diane in sf (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Apr-09-10 04:29 AM Response to Reply #101 |
117. You're lying about the birds--more are killed by cats and windows--the new turbines are |
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greenman3610 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-05-10 02:55 AM Response to Reply #13 |
16. that would be here, courtesy Stanford U civil engineering |
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Nederland (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-05-10 03:57 AM Response to Reply #16 |
19. Not sure I get your point |
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kristopher (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-05-10 11:24 AM Response to Reply #19 |
29. You deliberately define baseload falsely - no generating source meets your definition |
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Nederland (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-05-10 11:55 AM Response to Reply #29 |
33. You are clueless |
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kristopher (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-05-10 11:58 AM Response to Reply #33 |
35. D- for effort, F for content... |
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Nederland (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-05-10 12:02 PM Response to Reply #35 |
38. Clueless |
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kristopher (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-05-10 12:15 PM Response to Reply #38 |
40. Suggest you read the post you respond to, you sound very foolish when you don't. |
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Nederland (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-05-10 12:32 PM Response to Reply #40 |
45. Responded to in Post #43 (nt) |
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Statistical (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-05-10 12:46 PM Response to Reply #33 |
47. Exactly. |
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kristopher (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-05-10 12:54 PM Response to Reply #47 |
51. You are looking in the wrong end of the telescope... |
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OKIsItJustMe (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-05-10 07:43 AM Response to Reply #6 |
20. China could meet its energy needs by wind alone - Study suggests wind ecologically, economically pra |
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OKIsItJustMe (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-05-10 08:06 AM Response to Reply #6 |
21. Supplying Baseload Power and Reducing Transmission Requirements by Interconnecting Wind Farms |
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Nederland (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-05-10 09:02 AM Response to Reply #21 |
23. This paper does not support your argument |
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OKIsItJustMe (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-05-10 09:55 AM Response to Reply #23 |
24. Which makes wind just as reliable for "base load" as coal |
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Statistical (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-05-10 10:57 AM Response to Reply #24 |
27. Spain is the largest importer of electrical power in the world. |
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FBaggins (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-05-10 02:45 PM Response to Reply #27 |
73. Crickets chirping. |
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OKIsItJustMe (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-05-10 06:41 PM Response to Reply #73 |
80. I actually have a life off of the net |
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FBaggins (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-05-10 08:22 PM Response to Reply #80 |
84. Sorry... not you in particular |
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OKIsItJustMe (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-05-10 09:00 PM Response to Reply #84 |
85. The ability to predict wind |
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FBaggins (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-05-10 09:06 PM Response to Reply #85 |
87. I understand that. |
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OKIsItJustMe (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-05-10 09:56 PM Response to Reply #87 |
88. However, this is true of any power supply (not just wind) |
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FBaggins (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-05-10 10:09 PM Response to Reply #88 |
89. There's a massive difference. |
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OKIsItJustMe (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-05-10 10:50 PM Response to Reply #89 |
90. Re: they can only "level off" in the short term |
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OKIsItJustMe (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Apr-07-10 08:38 AM Response to Reply #90 |
93. Did anyone else hear crickets chirping? |
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FBaggins (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Apr-08-10 09:06 AM Response to Reply #93 |
94. Lol... good one. |
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OKIsItJustMe (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Apr-08-10 01:45 PM Response to Reply #94 |
95. Why only 6 hours? Because the goal at this point is "dispatchability" not "base load" |
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OKIsItJustMe (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Apr-08-10 02:04 PM Response to Reply #94 |
96. Storage sweet spot |
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Statistical (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Apr-08-10 03:44 PM Response to Reply #96 |
97. Yeah 24 hour storage isn't necessary. |
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OKIsItJustMe (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Apr-08-10 04:10 PM Response to Reply #97 |
98. Yes, I have... |
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FBaggins (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Apr-08-10 06:19 PM Response to Reply #97 |
104. Unless you want to pretend (as kristopher) that it can replace ALL current generation |
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kristopher (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Apr-08-10 06:25 PM Response to Reply #104 |
106. Don't attribute things to me I didn't say. |
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FBaggins (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Apr-08-10 06:30 PM Response to Reply #106 |
108. If that ever happens... you be sure to let me know. |
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kristopher (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Apr-08-10 06:34 PM Response to Reply #108 |
109. Now you have it right. |
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FBaggins (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Apr-08-10 06:36 PM Response to Reply #109 |
110. I was right then too (you should get used to it) |
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kristopher (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Apr-08-10 07:11 PM Response to Reply #110 |
112. No, when you say "it" in reply to a post about wind I think of wind |
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FBaggins (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Apr-08-10 07:17 PM Response to Reply #112 |
114. Wrong yet again. |
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FBaggins (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Apr-08-10 06:23 PM Response to Reply #96 |
105. I'm not sure where we're disagreeing here. |
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Statistical (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Apr-08-10 07:07 PM Response to Reply #105 |
111. Kris posistion is extreme and laughable. |
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kristopher (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Apr-08-10 07:12 PM Response to Reply #111 |
113. That is false. You've been challenged to support it and you cannot. |
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FBaggins (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Apr-08-10 07:26 PM Response to Reply #111 |
115. You're largely fine except paragraph three. |
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diane in sf (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Apr-09-10 04:36 AM Response to Reply #111 |
118. 40% nuke power is extreme and laughable, way too expensive and toxic |
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OKIsItJustMe (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-05-10 07:03 PM Response to Reply #73 |
83. Sun, wind and wave-powered: Europe unites to build renewable energy 'supergrid' |
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Nederland (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-05-10 11:19 AM Response to Reply #24 |
28. No it does not |
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kristopher (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-05-10 11:35 AM Response to Reply #28 |
31. You're going down for the third time... |
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Nederland (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-05-10 11:58 AM Response to Reply #31 |
34. I think not |
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kristopher (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-05-10 11:59 AM Response to Reply #34 |
36. D- for effort, F for content... |
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Nederland (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-05-10 12:03 PM Response to Reply #36 |
39. Clueless |
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kristopher (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-05-10 12:17 PM Response to Reply #39 |
42. See bold - and the original discussion |
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Nederland (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-05-10 12:31 PM Response to Reply #42 |
43. Response |
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kristopher (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-05-10 12:51 PM Response to Reply #43 |
48. It isn't "better", it is different. |
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Nederland (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-05-10 01:01 PM Response to Reply #48 |
54. You are right, they are different |
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Statistical (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-05-10 01:12 PM Response to Reply #54 |
57. He just loves strawmen. |
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kristopher (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-05-10 02:08 PM Response to Reply #57 |
67. Achieving 40% with nuclear is slower, more expensive, dirtier, and less safe than renewables |
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Statistical (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-05-10 02:34 PM Response to Reply #67 |
72. So you claim but MIT, DOE, and numerous public non-profit utilities disagree with you. n/t |
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kristopher (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-05-10 04:23 PM Response to Reply #72 |
78. Their conclusions are influenced by conflict of interest. |
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FBaggins (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-05-10 09:02 PM Response to Reply #78 |
86. So says the doctor of Philospohy and biomed? |
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kristopher (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-05-10 01:16 PM Response to Reply #54 |
58. Now you are back to your starting point which is still wrong... |
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Statistical (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-05-10 01:22 PM Response to Reply #58 |
59. Even if your 71% was valid (which it isn't) it still vastly exceed that of wind power. |
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kristopher (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-05-10 02:04 PM Response to Reply #59 |
66. That graph is a total fabrication |
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Nederland (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-05-10 01:36 PM Response to Reply #58 |
61. Disagree |
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kristopher (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-05-10 02:09 PM Response to Reply #61 |
68. YOU cited 4 articles contradicting that statement. |
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Nederland (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-05-10 02:17 PM Response to Reply #68 |
70. No I didn't |
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Statistical (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-05-10 01:02 PM Response to Reply #48 |
55. No 99% IS better than 87.5%. |
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Statistical (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-05-10 12:57 PM Response to Reply #42 |
53. Pure stawman. Nobody is claiming that except you so you have something to knock down. |
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kristopher (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-05-10 01:52 PM Response to Reply #53 |
64. Let's count the errors in your post |
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OKIsItJustMe (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-05-10 06:49 PM Response to Reply #28 |
81. You imply I have not read the paper. |
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OKIsItJustMe (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-05-10 10:03 AM Response to Reply #23 |
25. FWIW: A pre-print paper |
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Nederland (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-05-10 12:52 PM Response to Reply #25 |
49. Interesting find |
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kristopher (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-05-10 12:55 PM Response to Reply #49 |
52. You continue to conflate "wind" with "renewable grid" |
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Nederland (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-05-10 01:25 PM Response to Reply #52 |
60. Give it up Kristopher |
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kristopher (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-05-10 01:55 PM Response to Reply #60 |
65. Claiming a victory you haven't won is pretty pathetic. |
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FBaggins (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-05-10 02:47 PM Response to Reply #65 |
74. If you really believed that... |
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OKIsItJustMe (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-05-10 08:38 AM Response to Reply #6 |
22. Putting theory into practice - Grasslands Renewable Energy’s Wind Spirit Project |
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Greyhound (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-05-10 03:52 AM Response to Original message |
18. As someone that just dropped in, I see that the arguments opposing your article consist of |
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FBaggins (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-05-10 01:11 PM Response to Original message |
56. Do you consider youself well read on the subject? |
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Nederland (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-05-10 01:38 PM Response to Reply #56 |
62. Unfortunately he does... |
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FBaggins (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-05-10 01:50 PM Response to Reply #62 |
63. So... would you say that his repetitive spamming .... |
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Nederland (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-05-10 02:15 PM Response to Reply #63 |
69. He doesn't listen |
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Statistical (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-05-10 02:34 PM Response to Reply #69 |
71. Usually he simply is ignorant and then when faced with new facts refuses to believe them. |
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kristopher (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-05-10 04:02 PM Response to Reply #71 |
77. Ad hominem attack with falsehoods |
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Dead_Parrot (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-05-10 03:22 PM Response to Original message |
75. I think we should hook Kris up to the grid, & solve all our problems |
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joshcryer (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Apr-08-10 04:37 PM Response to Reply #75 |
102. I'd like to see how he'd cope without copy+paste functionality. |
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harun (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-05-10 03:44 PM Response to Original message |
76. Fail. |
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Liberation Angel (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-05-10 04:25 PM Response to Original message |
79. Great post, but the pro-industry lobby here at DU will deny its validity |
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joshcryer (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-05-10 07:02 PM Response to Reply #79 |
82. The three most prolific topic posters here are pro-nuclear. |
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truebrit71 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Apr-06-10 04:43 PM Response to Reply #82 |
91. "some of the issues" I love it! Like the whole 'glow in the dark if it all goes wrong' issue? |
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joshcryer (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Apr-08-10 04:15 PM Response to Reply #91 |
99. Nah, costs and time to start producing power are the two biggest factors. |
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Statistical (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Apr-08-10 10:30 PM Response to Reply #99 |
116. First reactors will be up a lot sooner than 8 years. |
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Liberation Angel (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Apr-06-10 09:56 PM Response to Reply #82 |
92. Paid or unpaid "lobbying" means supporting a cause or policy |
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joshcryer (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Apr-08-10 04:16 PM Response to Reply #92 |
100. It's slander because it's a veiled attempt to call pro-nuclear people "right wingers." |
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kristopher (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Apr-08-10 04:40 PM Response to Reply #100 |
103. Nuclear power has been the darling of the right wing for 50 years. |
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FBaggins (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Apr-08-10 06:25 PM Response to Reply #100 |
107. That's just flat nonsense! |
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diane in sf (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Apr-09-10 04:47 AM Response to Reply #82 |
119. Yes and all three of them lie like rugs |
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