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jpak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-16-05 09:55 AM
Original message
US pressures G8 to support nuclear power
http://news.scotsman.com/politics.cfm?id=651462005

THE White House is pressing for next month's G8 summit in Gleneagles to make a clear statement of support for nuclear power, opening up a new rift with the UK over climate change.

The US pressure over nuclear power is revealed in a confidential paper prepared by UK government officials as part of the preparatory talks before the Gleneagles meeting.

The leaked document, entitled Powering a cleaner future, discloses that the UK considers rejecting the US position to be a "red line" issue, on which no concessions can be made.

<snip>

George Bush, the US president, has suggested nuclear power could be a "clean" power source for the future, angering environmentalists.

<more>


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AndyTiedye Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-16-05 10:04 AM
Response to Original message
1. We Know Where That Leads
"Hello - how do you do - I'm Mr. Plutonium. Can I spend the night?
I kind of need a place to crash and this place looks all right.
It's quite a site, so I just might settle down and stay
Two hundred and fifty thousand years - and then I'll go away.
I'm Mr. Plutonium, Mr. Plutonium - I'm lookin' for a home."

:nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke:
:nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke:
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phantom power Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-16-05 01:22 PM
Response to Original message
2. I was under the impression that Europe was leaning that direction already
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jpak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-16-05 02:08 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. France, yes
Finland - Yes

Czech Republic - maybe
UK - maybe
Poland - maybe

Germany - no
Spain - no
Portugal - no
Switzerland - no
Netherlands - no
Belgium - no
Luxembourg - no
Denmark - no
Norway - no
Sweden - no
Slovakia - no
Austria - no
Italy - no
Greece - no
Andorra - no

Bulgaria ???
Romania ???
Former Yugoslavia???
Albania????

Bottom line - not much support for new nuclear power plants in Europe



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Massacure Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-16-05 03:31 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. France exports a lot of their nuclear power.
Edited on Thu Jun-16-05 03:31 PM by Massacure
European plants are much better than U.S. ones though. I'd trust France and Findland with nuclear power a lot more than the U.S. and the U.K.
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Nihil Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-17-05 06:23 AM
Response to Reply #4
5. France exports quite a lot of it to the UK
In that sense, the UK "supports" nuclear energy via offshore plants! :-)
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Throckmorton Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-17-05 02:05 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. Really?
You know this because?
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Massacure Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-17-05 10:43 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. I read it.
France is the largest exporter of electricity in the world. They earn nearly 2.6 billion euros per year from their electricity exports.
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NNadir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-18-05 01:01 AM
Response to Reply #3
8. And of these so called "no" countries, none of them produce nuclear
power?

Of course, in the 1980's - that would be roughly two decades ago - around the time of Chernobyl and just after Three Mile Island, some countries, specifically Sweden and Germany, voted to abandon nuclear power. Neither country has actually abandoned nuclear power and replaced it with magical solar power though, have they?

It has been almost twenty years since the failure of a nuclear plant has injured anyone. Contrast this with Greenpeace coal, which kills people every damn day - even without the global climate change catastrophe that is striking right now.

Somehow I think the Swedes, and everyone else who gives a shit - this would obviously exclude religious small minded twits who can't add and subtract - can figure out the nature of reality when it stares them in the face.

In 2001, the four reactors at Ringhals produced over 25 terawatt-hours of electricity, one sixth of Sweden's entire demand, the third highest production level ever. 25 terawatt-hours is the equal to 90 petajoules (9 X 10^16 J). If we assume that the reactors operated at 30% efficiency, the total energy consumed was about 300 petajoules. At 25,000 kJ/kg, for coal, this is the equivalent of 12,000,000 tons (not milligrams, thank you) of coal. This single facility provided one sixth of the total electrical demand of Sweden, sufficient to power five cities the size of Gottenberg.

http://www.ringhals.se/files/Annual_Report_2001.pdf

It doesn't sound like Sweden abandoned nuclear power, now does it?

Sweden voted to abandon nuclear power twenty years ago, around the same time that Greenpeace twits were promising a solar nirvana in about ten years. Neither promise has come even remotely close to reality, and I expect, neither will within the lifetimes of anyone reading this.

Now that their little drinking binge is over and they've sobered up, I'll bet the Swedes will begin, like their Finnish neighbors, to think more clearly. It's not like they're stupid Americans, you know.

It seems to have recently occurred to the Swedes that they will have to burn coal if they really shut their nuclear plants because - hello? - the wind doesn't really blow all the time and the nights are very, very, very, very long in Stockholm around December 21. Theoretically, they could, one supposes, chop down every tree in Sweden and burn it up, but somehow this particular bit really isn't satisfying to thinking people. One hundred and fifty billion "watts" of PV cells don't work very well at night - even if solar are rated by misleading fools as if they operated continuously at their peak rating 24/7, 365.24 days a year.

Of course, anti-nuclear anti-environmental activists don't give a shit about coal - it is in fact their real agenda - but I predict it will be a very, very, very blistering hot day in Norbotten when Sweden actually shuts all of its nuclear plants to begin burning coal.
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WhollyHeretic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-18-05 11:05 AM
Response to Reply #8
9. Solar technology is advancing every year
It would be an extremely viable option now if it had the federal money that oil, coal, or nuclear get. Nuclear power has never been cost efficient and gets tremendous subsidies from the government. There haven't been any major accidents with Nuclear power in a while but that doesn't mean it's not causing any harm. Here is a good article on some of the economic and safety concerns http://www.commondreams.org/views05/0415-23.htm
It's idiotic to continue to produce nuclear plants when we still don't know what to do with the remains of the old ones. The nuclear industry puts a lot of propaganda out to the public but the truth is it has never made economic or environmental sense. They even built a nuclear power plant on a fault line in California, how freakin' stupid is that? :banghead:
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-18-05 12:23 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. Deleted message
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-18-05 12:54 PM
Response to Reply #10
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jpak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-18-05 02:22 PM
Response to Reply #10
12. $80,000 for a 10 kW PV system in NJ??? LOL!!!!!!
Edited on Sat Jun-18-05 02:26 PM by jpak
First, a 10 kW PV system would be among the largest in the state. An energy efficient home would only need a 2-4 kW system.

Second, New Jersey has the best solar rebate program in the country.

After rebate, a 10 kW system would cost $27,500 NOT $80,000.

A 2 kW system would cost a Princeton NJ (zip code 08540) homeowner $7000 after rebate.

You can do the calculations yourself...

http://www.bp.com/solarsavings.do?categoryId=4323

Someone is pulling your leg...

:rofl:

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rfkrfk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-19-05 08:46 AM
Response to Reply #9
13. 'solar', has been extensively studied, for years and years
Don't expect anything new.

The U.S. is not the whole world, btw.
If the non-US part of the world would do something here,
I would not complain.
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rfkrfk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-19-05 12:02 PM
Response to Original message
14. why does the G7 {the G8 minus shrub} listen to shrub?
I give up.
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phantom power Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-19-05 01:10 PM
Response to Reply #14
15. historical inertia, is my theory
Until recently, we were a superpower, so people are still in the habit of treating us with respect. That won't last forever, if we keep rushing headlong towards becoming a third-world country. Already, the rest of the world is starting to become bolder in resisting our bullying, which is exactly what they ought to do.
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