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bananas (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Sep-03-10 04:08 PM Original message |
DOE explains why the nuclear industry collapsed in 1974 |
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maryf (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Sep-03-10 04:17 PM Response to Original message |
1. Thanks good info to have! |
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zipplewrath (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Sep-03-10 04:37 PM Response to Original message |
2. International comparison |
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jberryhill (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Sep-03-10 05:08 PM Response to Reply #2 |
4. Certain things are relative |
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bananas (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Sep-03-10 05:15 PM Response to Reply #2 |
6. About the same |
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greenman3610 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Sep-03-10 07:47 PM Response to Reply #2 |
7. those countries are primarily command and control economies |
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joshcryer (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-21-10 10:27 PM Response to Reply #7 |
15. Clean energy isn't currently competitive with dirty energy. |
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kristopher (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-21-10 11:19 PM Response to Reply #15 |
17. That isn't true. |
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joshcryer (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Oct-22-10 02:06 AM Response to Reply #17 |
25. Got a date when this will happen? |
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Radical Activist (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Oct-24-10 06:20 PM Response to Reply #25 |
45. End coal subsidies and the date is tomorrow. |
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txlibdem (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Oct-24-10 07:48 PM Response to Reply #45 |
46. With all the subsidies coal and oil receive each year |
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kristopher (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Oct-24-10 10:19 PM Response to Reply #46 |
47. There are a lot of areas where the EIA can be criticized, but nuclear isn't one of them... |
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txlibdem (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Oct-25-10 07:58 AM Response to Reply #47 |
48. The article you cited came to simplistic conclusions |
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kristopher (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Oct-25-10 01:54 PM Response to Reply #48 |
49. The cost issue is what killed it. |
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txlibdem (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-26-10 07:46 AM Response to Reply #49 |
51. I have a hard time telling the two of you apart sometimes. Sorry about that. |
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kristopher (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-26-10 08:28 AM Response to Reply #51 |
52. History has already rendered a verdict - stop burying your head in the sand |
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txlibdem (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-26-10 12:05 PM Response to Reply #52 |
54. Opinion piece |
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kristopher (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-26-10 01:03 PM Response to Reply #54 |
55. No, it isn't opinion, it is a straight accounting of the cost claims. |
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Nederland (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-26-10 02:29 PM Response to Reply #55 |
57. Yes it is an opinion |
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kristopher (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-26-10 02:49 PM Response to Reply #57 |
58. Luckily we don't need to wait for it to play out this time. |
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Nederland (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-26-10 02:56 PM Response to Reply #58 |
59. And that is a good thing |
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kristopher (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-26-10 03:04 PM Response to Reply #59 |
61. trial period is over as it was supposed to have helped by now - 2010 |
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Nederland (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-26-10 05:26 PM Response to Reply #61 |
62. And Lovins predicted renewables would provide 30% of our energy by 2000 |
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kristopher (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-26-10 05:45 PM Response to Reply #62 |
63. Thank your friend Reagan for the difference... |
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Nederland (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-26-10 06:10 PM Response to Reply #63 |
64. So who gave you a pointy hat... |
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kristopher (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-26-10 06:21 PM Response to Reply #64 |
65. It isn't about "cred" it is about values. |
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Nederland (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-26-10 08:32 PM Response to Reply #65 |
68. No Kristopher, it is about humility |
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txlibdem (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-26-10 08:59 PM Response to Reply #55 |
69. It is an opinion, and not a very informed opinion for that matter |
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joshcryer (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-26-10 10:11 PM Response to Reply #45 |
70. Nah, you need to build 190,000 turbines a year... |
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OutNow (538 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Sep-03-10 05:02 PM Response to Original message |
3. Yeah, too cheap to meter |
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DrGregory (427 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Sep-04-10 06:39 AM Response to Reply #3 |
8. You gotta be kidding.... |
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kristopher (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Oct-23-10 06:06 PM Response to Reply #8 |
32. Yet another wonderful example of your thinking; thank you so much. |
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phantom power (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Sep-03-10 05:11 PM Response to Original message |
5. Apparently the more-economic choices were coal and NG |
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bananas (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Sep-12-10 03:02 AM Response to Reply #5 |
10. The most economic choices were efficiency and demand reduction |
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joshcryer (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-21-10 10:06 PM Response to Reply #10 |
14. That does not refute that coal and NG are preferred solutions. |
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kristopher (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-21-10 11:28 PM Response to Reply #14 |
19. Sure it does |
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joshcryer (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Oct-22-10 02:05 AM Response to Reply #19 |
24. "Renewables are already competitive with fossil fuels" |
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bananas (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Sep-12-10 02:53 AM Response to Original message |
9. kick. nt |
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bananas (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Oct-13-10 05:07 PM Response to Original message |
11. Chart of reactor orders per year - fell like a rock in 1974 |
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kristopher (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-21-10 04:16 PM Response to Reply #11 |
13. So what if nuclear only buys 5% the amount of carbon reduction as efficiency? Who cares? |
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bananas (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-21-10 11:45 AM Response to Original message |
12. kick. nt |
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Nederland (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-21-10 10:59 PM Response to Original message |
16. This report gets basic facts wrong |
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kristopher (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-21-10 11:22 PM Response to Reply #16 |
18. Standard and unsupportable nuclear industry propaganda |
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Nederland (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-21-10 11:35 PM Response to Reply #18 |
20. Unsupportable? |
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kristopher (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Oct-22-10 12:03 AM Response to Reply #20 |
22. And the explanation for the negative learning curve also found in France's program? |
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Nederland (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Oct-22-10 12:27 AM Response to Reply #22 |
23. Cherry picking is theoretically possible |
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kristopher (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Oct-22-10 11:41 AM Response to Reply #23 |
26. The study I cited above conclusively disproves your thesis. |
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DrGregory (427 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Oct-22-10 10:59 PM Response to Reply #26 |
29. REALLY??? |
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kristopher (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Oct-23-10 05:49 PM Response to Reply #29 |
31. When you don't have the truth on your side, create a strawman, eh? |
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DrGregory (427 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Oct-23-10 11:03 PM Response to Reply #31 |
34. Evidently you don't understand "fault tolerant" |
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Nederland (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Oct-23-10 11:11 PM Response to Reply #26 |
35. There were no "improvements in safety" |
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DrGregory (427 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Oct-23-10 11:50 PM Response to Reply #35 |
36. CONCUR!!! |
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DrGregory (427 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-21-10 11:51 PM Response to Reply #16 |
21. EXACTLY!!! |
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bananas (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Oct-24-10 07:05 AM Response to Reply #21 |
38. LOL - you're blaming it on anti-war protestors! |
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Nederland (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Oct-24-10 02:33 PM Response to Reply #38 |
41. Ummmm... |
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bananas (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-26-10 06:48 PM Response to Reply #41 |
66. They were right about both |
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Nederland (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Oct-27-10 04:40 PM Response to Reply #66 |
76. I doubt that very much |
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CRH (671 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Oct-22-10 03:08 PM Response to Original message |
27. Nuclear collapsed from arrogant incompetence, ... |
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DrGregory (427 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Oct-22-10 10:39 PM Response to Reply #27 |
28. REALLY???? |
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CRH (671 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Oct-23-10 12:46 PM Response to Reply #28 |
30. Other Articles support the Unit 2 reactor vessel at San Onofre, |
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DrGregory (427 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Oct-23-10 10:41 PM Response to Reply #30 |
33. And what happens when you have circular symmetry.... |
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caraher (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Oct-24-10 06:35 AM Response to Reply #33 |
37. The vessel is installed inside a building |
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madokie (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Oct-24-10 08:20 AM Response to Reply #37 |
39. When I read some of the posts like what you're replying too |
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DrGregory (427 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Oct-24-10 03:41 PM Response to Reply #39 |
44. Evidently someone doesn't understand "symmetry" |
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DrGregory (427 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Oct-24-10 03:23 PM Response to Reply #37 |
43. VACUOUS concerns |
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caraher (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Oct-25-10 03:46 PM Response to Reply #43 |
50. "WHERE did you get the idea that I am denying they goofed." from post 28 |
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jpak (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Oct-24-10 11:38 AM Response to Original message |
40. But..but..but...what about hippies and Greenpeace? We were told they done it! |
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Nederland (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Oct-24-10 02:35 PM Response to Reply #40 |
42. Well, that's what Greenpeace likes to claim, isn't it? (nt) |
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PavePusher (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-26-10 11:40 AM Response to Original message |
53. I wonder if it had anything to do with the fact that they were being litigated into bankruptcy... |
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kristopher (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-26-10 01:04 PM Response to Reply #53 |
56. No, it didn't. |
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Nederland (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-26-10 02:57 PM Response to Reply #56 |
60. What was the cause then? |
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Nederland (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Oct-27-10 02:09 PM Response to Reply #60 |
74. *Crickets* (nt) |
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bananas (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-26-10 07:29 PM Response to Reply #53 |
67. Not in 1974 |
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PavePusher (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Oct-27-10 12:16 AM Response to Reply #67 |
71. Were there regulatory changes that may have slowed/stopped the construction of those plants? |
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kristopher (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Oct-27-10 01:57 PM Response to Reply #71 |
72. In 1974 the country was reeling from the first oil embargo... |
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Nederland (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Oct-27-10 02:24 PM Response to Reply #67 |
75. Projected demand did not materialize |
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Kolesar (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Oct-27-10 02:00 PM Response to Reply #53 |
73. litigated into bankruptcy? Got any proof |
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